Helping Kids Build Real Body Confidence Dr. Whitney Casares, MD

Disclaimer: This transcript was generated with the help of AI and may contain minor errors or inconsistencies. Please refer to the audio for the most accurate representation of the conversation.

Alyssa: [00:00:00] You're listening to Voices of your Village, and I am so grateful to be sharing this conversation with you. If you are raising bigger kids, those school age humans navigating a world full of messages about what they should look like, eat, wear, and do with their bodies. This episode is for you. Today I'm joined by Doctor Whitney Casares, pediatrician, author, and mom of two, to talk about real body confidence. Not just the love yourself kind, but the kind rooted in science, self-awareness, and actual conversations we can have with our kids. We dive into the difference between body literacy and body positivity, and how to talk to kids about food without shame, and why it matters to meet every body with understanding. This is a conversation about equipping kids with tools and support in helping them feel at home in the bodies they live in, whether they're dealing with unexpected body changes, hurtful schoolyard comments, or the rising peer pressure to fit a mold that, let's be honest, isn't realistic for most of us. Remember to check out the breakdown at the end with Rach and I. We actually have a really fun one. We did something that I've never done before, and read a DM from somebody on air for this breakdown and dove into what's really coming up in this DM conversation. Come check out that tea after my interview with Whitney. Stay tuned at the end for it. All right, folks, let's dive in. 

Hey there. I'm Alyssa Blask Campbell. I'm a mom with a master's degree in early childhood education and co-creator of the collaborative emotion processing method. I'm here to walk alongside you through the messy, vulnerable parts of being humans, raising other humans with deep thoughts and actionable tips. Let's dive in together.

Alyssa: [00:01:59] How old are your kids, Whitney?

Dr. Whitney: [00:02:00] I have a nine year old, and I have a 12 year old.

Alyssa: [00:02:04] Okay, rad. Yeah, right. In our big kids range. It was 5 to 12. Like elementary schools. Our big kids range. Rad. Well, I have a two year old and then an almost five year old.

Dr. Whitney: [00:02:17] Okay. Nice. Yeah. Yeah. And obviously you have the, like, professional. Oh, yeah.

Alyssa: [00:02:23] Most of our work is actually in elementary schools. We do a crap ton of work in elementary schools, which is I mean, after Tiny Humans came out, we just kept getting requests from people. It was like, this is so helpful. Also, why is my nine year old a teenager? And we had been like front facing as a business at sea in the early editor space, especially on like Instagram, where our Instagram primarily is for parents and it's just free little snippets for parents. But most of our work is with schools and we have a child care program, but we have a whole program for elementary schools that just wasn't front facing on Instagram until we kept getting these parent requests for what do we do with these nine year olds rolling their eyes? And yeah, my.

Dr. Whitney: [00:03:09] Did you tell them it's the social media? Like it's the social media? My friends, it's making them grow up way too fast. I will say that for my own kid. And also, like, developmentally, they're 100% like so much and like individuating and whatever. But also it is like, girl, where'd you get that phrase? I know I've never said that before.

Alyssa: [00:03:33] Oh, those peer relationships, how they trickle right in. Yeah, yeah. But that it it's been it's been a wild ride over here on this on this journey. And same over there with you I haven't we haven't connected in a while. So I'm excited to kind of dive into this jazz and chat more about your new book. My one of a Kind body here. Okay. What I love most about this book is that I remember as a kid saying things like, I don't like how I look in this. My mom was always like, you're beautiful. You don't need to x, y, and Z. And I was just like, cool. You don't get it. Like that doesn't feel helpful or validating this idea of, like, just love your body. And I'm like, great, I don't. So now what do I do? And so I love how much you dive into the body literacy. Can you chat about that difference between body literacy versus that body positivity messaging?

Dr. Whitney: [00:04:33] Yeah. Well I think you hit the nail on the head. I also had that experience of like, you're beautiful, you're awesome. Don't eat that. You know, we don't want to be fat like Aunt Becky or whatever, you know, like you had these double messages that came at the same time as opposed to really meeting kids where they are, which is feeling totally vulnerable, being at a place developmentally where they care a lot about what other people think of how they look. How they look does matter to them. And so I wanted to honor that for kids because I live that in my own home. Like I have a kid who for, you know, 20 days until I realized there was a kid commenting on her body at school, like was taking a lot of time to get ready before she left the house. I'm like, what is going on? She's looking in the mirror every single moment. Sure. And and it's because she goes, well, so and so said that my makeup wasn't blended well. And so I need to make sure that it's perfect before I leave the house. So that is the life I lead. And I wanted to make sure that those kids felt honored. Body literacy. The difference between that and body positivity is body positivity is like, I feel amazing about my body. I love my body. It's perfect just the way I am.

Dr. Whitney: [00:05:45] I'm good. It's like a slogan on a T-shirt, really. It's very surface level without a lot of room. For real emotions. And body literacy is really understanding the way that your body works. It's also understanding the way that your mind works. So being able to say, gosh, I don't feel great about my body today. And that's because I saw an ad yesterday for Bubble Skincare that told me I was supposed to have perfectly clear skin. If I just use the right products and I'm using the products and it's not working, or it is understanding that your body goes out before it goes up in puberty and in the pre-pubertal stage of development and of growth for kids. It's understanding that having sweets and having like really highly processed carbs tastes amazing. There's a whole industry aimed at getting our kids to eat those foods, and they're not terrible every once in a while, as like, feel fun foods. But also there are other foods that give our kids other nutrients and our kids need those nutrients for their muscles to be strong and for their brains to be healthy and for their immune systems to be strong. And so it's really arming kids with information about the way that their body and their brain works so that they can make decisions, and so that they can process through those very real feelings that that come up.

Alyssa: [00:07:09] Yeah. I love this, though. Like, here's why sleep matters or what what happens when you're sleeping or I was an athlete always growing up. And how powerful it could have been to have information around what is in different types of foods that would give me fuel before my game or my practice, versus what will my body maybe need after to recover? And just like the science of that, growing up, I really identified as like not liking science. And now I'm just a science nerd and so have really realized that I, I do love science, and I like understanding how science affects us in the everyday and not just like kind of in an abstract way. And I think about how body literacy is just it's just scientific and understanding the science, I think, would be so helpful. And I'm wondering, you know, you mentioned like bodies grow out before they grow up. And I was sitting here, I was like, oh, that wasn't my experience. I was like five, six in A00 and like couldn't find clothes that fit because I was just really thin and a beanpole. Yeah. Also, yeah, just like tall and thin. And that also growing up in the 90s was not what I was, quote, supposed to look like for the media. And, you know, I think we talk a lot about social media and I'm like, oh, those frigging catalogs, everything. Cosmos still existed. My friend still got the messages, whether we had social media or not. So, yes that was still very much around. And I'm wondering like, how do you within this book and within this work, as we're having these conversations with our kids, how do we bring in the fact that kids are not a one size fits all? And so the approach to them also cannot be.

Dr. Whitney: [00:09:02] Yeah, yeah. Well, first of all, you're absolutely right that we had those same messages growing up. They were just in different format. I had a mom who was not unique in the fact that she put, like, magazine images on the refrigerator as her, like, weight loss goals, like. And so that's just what I grew up with, like, on the refrigerator. Every time I chose a food, I was looking at like what I was supposed to be. That's hard. You know, reading 17 magazine, watching The Biggest Loser like all of that. Right? So, yeah, it's not like we were so much better before. You're absolutely right that not all bodies are the same. We all know that inherently, but a lot of the literature around health that I grew up with, that you probably grew up with did have this specific image, like it's a thin white girl, and that is the definition of health. And it's also true that, like you, a lot of people who are like extra skinny also feel bad about their bodies or they worry, well, what if I eat this and then I'm not skinny anymore? Like this desire. Like I have to stay perfect. And interestingly, as I was writing this book, there's one character, Hailey, who is in the book. She's like the gymnast girl, and she's thin and she's blonde. And my editor said, I think we don't need to have Hailey's story quite be so prominent, like, because she struggles with this of, like, everybody always calls me perfect and it makes me feel bad, like I have this extra pressure on me. And also, sometimes I want to be, like more curvy than I am sure. And I was like, oh no. I was like, where are my boobs?

Alyssa: [00:10:40] When are those coming?

Dr. Whitney: [00:10:42] Right? Exactly. I'm like, no, no, no, we have to have her. We also have to have the boy who's super scrawny, who wants to be more muscular, who's, like, not buff, and he's not masculine enough. I put in a character who was representative of my daughter, who has autism, who lives in, like, a softer body and is not going to be the athlete. She will never be the kid who is running cross country.

Alyssa: [00:11:09] Yeah.

Dr. Whitney: [00:11:09] My younger daughter. Yes. She's like, you know, doing aerial arts and spinning and whatever, but my oldest is not. The other day she asked me, for the first time in her entire life if we could go take a walk outside. So I wanted all those kids to be part of this, because I think that's just so much more accurate about how kids feel and who kids are. And I think we take a major misstep when we make health in terms of what kids see in a book. One dimensional.

Alyssa: [00:11:40] You brought up a solid point that I want to dive a little deeper into here. My son is autistic and he's sensory sensitive, not high sensory seeking. And so he doesn't require a lot of movement to be regulated. In fact, what he requires mostly is downtime and breaks from stimuli for regulation. And so same like we're going on a family hike or walk. And he's like, I hate this and wants to be like in the carrier or the hiking backpack. And he's almost five that my almost two year old is generally riding in. And she's like, yeah, get me out of here. She wants to climb the mountain. She's a sensory seeker. That's how her body's built. And even like food and how it affects them in different types of food. And the way that she navigates sugar in her body is way different than the way that he does. And when it comes to talking to them about how their bodies work, I am curious about like, what are your thoughts on this of like helping them find what is right or what healthy means to their body versus what it means for like their sibling or their peers or people around them?

Dr. Whitney: [00:12:52] Yeah, this was a huge point of emphasis for me in this book, in part because we have kind of two sides of a coin when it comes to being healthy. Right now out in the world, we have the side of things that's like, eat whatever you want. It should be a free for all. Go for it. And then we have unfortunately, honestly, the medical side of things that I was trained in, which is like BMI and like, let's track your growth and like, you can only eat fruits and vegetables or whatever.

Alyssa: [00:13:21] And all sugar is bad.

Dr. Whitney: [00:13:23] All sugar is bad. Yeah. Like both sides of that are very unhealthy. And the whole food free for all thing. I equate that to like I would never let my kids just watch screens as long as they want. I would never just let my kids, like, go out to like a, you know, nightclub if they wanted to. Like, we have to have some boundaries around every single part of our parenting for our kids. And so to your point, I think a lot of the conversation needs to be for our kids. And we modeled this in the book. How is this going to make your body feel short term, and how is this going to make your body feel long term? So if you eat eight Oreos, then you will probably have a stomach ache. You're not going to have enough room for some of the other foods that are going to give you different types of energy. We talk about protein. The protein lasts for a longer period of time. We talk about fat. Fat lasts for a longer period of time. Fat is great for your body. It just needs to be that we're having it in a combination that fits you.

Dr. Whitney: [00:14:22] There's a story in the book of Greta who says to her dad, like, I thought you said all foods are good foods. And what I want right now is a cinnamon roll, because that's a good food to me. And I love baking and like, gosh, you're being so body negative because you won't let me eat all these cinnamon rolls. And her dad is like, no girl. It's fine to love cinnamon rolls, but we've had enough cinnamon rolls for the day, and I really wanted to be clear about it being okay for parents to set some limits on our kids, and to explain why they're doing it to their kids. And the hope was that as parents peruse this book while their kids are off to school, that they would have some good scripts for themselves as to how to talk, how to talk to their kids and same. I mean, I have a sensory seeking, sugar seeking, ADHD kid and a carb seeking, not sensory seeking autistic kid. So it just is like completely different needs. And I came to the table with that.

Alyssa: [00:15:17] Yeah, yeah, I love that. And I think about in our house, you know, the like division of responsibility, like we're gonna put everything on the plate and I'm like, that works for one of my kids. It does not work for the other one. That one of them can be like, oh yeah, I can have a piece of chocolate on my plate and eat that chocolate and also eat other foods. And the other one will eat that chocolate and not eat anything else on their plate. And so when I am looking at this, I guess I like the I like the presentation of different humans throughout the book, where you get to follow different narratives and see how this is different for different folks. I think boundaries within food is so important, and understanding the science behind food is so important. It's something that I think, I think a lot of us now, parenting young kids are like, oh, no one ever talked to us about this. And there's been a real big pendulum swing under the guise of like, diet culture, where it's like, no, we're gonna all foods are welcome here. And we can have them like the unlimited cinnamon buns or whatever. And I think that Really what? When I look back to myself as a younger child, what I think could have been most helpful in my relationship with food was just to understand how our bodies work and what's in different foods, and that it's not bad that sometimes I'm going to say, yeah, I want ice cream and I'm going to have it.

Alyssa: [00:16:53] And that's fun. And, you know, the whole like when kids, if we had these third graders recently in a school where they had to write papers about what they wish there could be no more of and or that they wish they could just have, and one of them was like ice cream for dinner every night, and there would be no more like broccoli and vegetables on their plate. And I'm like, totally, because ice cream is delicious. And I hear that. And I wonder what that looks like when we just teach kids about the science of like, yeah, this is how this makes us feel. And I think honestly, the same with screens of I love my friend ash Brandon's work with power on their book that came out in August, where it's like, yes, screens aren't going anywhere. How do we teach kids how to utilize them, what they do to our bodies and what boundaries what this looks like. And I think for a lot of us raising kids right now, because we didn't have boundaries that felt appropriate or helpful for us around food, we're trying to set them. And it was never modeled for us. How?

Dr. Whitney: [00:18:03] Yeah, exactly. And you know, analogous to your work around feelings, it's kind of like. Yeah, you know, I always talk about all feelings are okay, not all behaviors are okay. So you're allowed to feel whatever you want to feel, but the way that you express it isn't always like the most healthy for you or for other people around you. So you can't just like, go all out and like haul and hit somebody just because you feel bad. Sorry. That's not okay, you know? But you're allowed to say I'm mad or you're allowed to, like, you know, have a big emotion. And similarly, like, it's totally fine to have food be a coping mechanism sometimes. It's totally like, sometimes I feel really sad. And what I want is a peanut butter cookie because that feels so warm and cozy and good. And it's gonna give me the dopamine hit that I want. But if that's my only coping skill for feeling bad, then that is a problem. Just like sometimes when I feel sad, what I want to do is, like, scream into a pillow or cry my eyes out and sulk around for an hour and then like, come back to. But that can't always be the way that I do things, because I have kids and I need to like, and I have work and I need to see patients. Sometimes I gotta, like, take a deep breath and like, tighten up my ponytail and get to work, you know?

Alyssa: [00:19:21] Don't always have four hours to feel a feeling.

Dr. Whitney: [00:19:23] Yes, exactly. So I think that's what we're trying to teach kids in the book, and there's an entire section on like, okay, what? In addition to food, are other coping strategies you could take when you feel angry, when you feel sad, when you feel nervous, when you feel bored. So that way you have more tools in your toolkit. But it demoralizes it like it's not like full foods a bad thing. It's just it's only one option. It's not all the options.

Alyssa: [00:19:50] Well, and even outside of food when it comes to your body. Right? I a blesser my mom love her. Love her so much. I have four brothers. I'm the only girl. And I was not allowed to wear makeup. Just period. Full stop. And so then of course, I just like, snuck it and wore makeup behind her back. I'd leave the house and go put it on. I'd go over to Kelly. I'm gonna go get ready at Kelly's. Great. Yeah. And my mom was like, you don't need mascara. You can use Vaseline on your eyelashes. And it does the same thing, which is obviously not true. No. And what these types of things led to for me was a feeling of she doesn't know what it's like to be 14 or to be 16, and so I'm not going to turn to her now and say, I don't like how I look, or I want to wear makeup to this thing, or I want to do this different thing to my hair or wear this outfit or whatever, because my experience was, she doesn't know what it's like to be this age. She's not going to understand this anyway. So she's not going to be the one I turn to and talk to. And, you know, outside of food, just there's so much there's clothes, there's a belonging. And inclusion comes up in so many different ways. Yes. And I'm wondering, like how outside of the science of how our bodies work, what do we do when our kids come and they're like the boy that wants to bulk up and be, you know, more muscular than they are, or our child that wants to wear a certain thing and needs to have these shoes or this hairstyle or whatever, because that's what other kids are doing and they don't feel like they fit in or like they belong unless they do that. What are some responses we can have in our back pocket that aren't just like, oh honey, you're beautiful, or like, your body is perfect the way it is. And they're like, great, never coming back to you for advice or help because that was terrible.

Dr. Whitney: [00:21:46] Yeah, I think this speaks to parenting in general. And and your goal for your kids. Like you said, not just about their bodies, but about everything, about sex, about drugs, about their relationships, about their mental health, about if they did feel like they're developing an eating disorder, like you want your goal to be with your kids, that they will come to you and talk to you, even if you don't like what it is that they're saying, and it scares the heck out of you. You have to. If you want them to come talk to you, you have to develop the skills to make it so that you have an open door. The way you do that. Number one is to not start with the reassurances. So stop yourself from saying the reassurance. It's, of course, the first thing that comes to our mind because it's true for us. You do think your child is beautiful just the way they are. You do think your child is perfect. Start with pausing yourself like taking a breath and pausing.

Alyssa: [00:22:44] That's so hard.

Dr. Whitney: [00:22:46] I know it's hard, I know. Okay, so here's the way you practice that. It is hard. Okay, here's the way you do it. One you get enough sleep yourself. You feed. This has been.

Alyssa: [00:22:55] What I'm doing. This has been my latest. Mostly because I have a long history of Alzheimer's in my family. And, like, sleep is at the top of, like, how to potentially, maybe not get Alzheimer's when I'm older, but I've been really prioritizing my sleep and who I am as a human. With between eight and last night, I got nine hours and 15 minutes of sleep.

Dr. Whitney: [00:23:15] Yeah.

Alyssa: [00:23:16] It's like the way that I can show up in the world is so vastly different than when I get 6.5 hours of sleep. So, like. Exactly.

Dr. Whitney: [00:23:22] Okay, so.

Alyssa: [00:23:23] Whitney, on this one. Thank you.

Dr. Whitney: [00:23:25] Yes. So sleep for feed yourself something, get your cup of coffee in and figure out I have a whole book about it. Other book about it. How to, like, get some stuff off your plate as much as possible so you have the bandwidth for this as often as possible. And then give yourself grace because, you know, sometimes you are going to say, oh, you're so pretty, oh, you're fine, blah blah, blah, blah. Then you have to stop yourself and go, oh, sorry, I actually do want to just listen to how you feel. I'm sorry. That was just a gut reaction to how to how I want to respond. Because I love you so much. Right? Okay. Second thing is to try your best to get curious about why they are bringing this up. Is it because someone said something to them? Is it because everyone else has certain shoes that they don't have? Is it because all of a sudden they have acne and they've never had that before? And that feels weird. Is it because maybe, like, you've been a little bit too hard lined about, like wearing makeup or whatever, because you have your own things in your own head about, like what that means, you know, 100%.

Dr. Whitney: [00:24:30] So I think that is the next step. And then that will naturally lead. If you are in a relatively good space, let's say, 80% of the time, to be able to pause. And then if you're able to start with curiosity, that will then lead you toward, oh, this is the solution. This is the response that will get us where we want to go. And then the other trick that I have really found, especially with my autistic kid, is to 100% like, get on your kid's side, like you're on their team. This little boy, this little punk ass boy who was saying mean stuff to my daughter about her makeup and the way it was blended, she was, well, I don't want to go because, you know, he talked about me and then, gosh, she says stuff about me. And I'm like, this kid and I like, swore a little and was like, you know, use some like tween slang.

Alyssa: [00:25:18] This kid.

Dr. Whitney: [00:25:19] F this kid, I'm like, you know, and I'm not a violent person. I will not be hurting a child. Please don't like, you know, no, nobody at me. But I'm like, I'm gonna I'm gonna take off my earrings and show this kid who's boss, you know what I mean? Like, no one talks about my daughter that way, and then she's laughing, and now we're, like, ready to problem solve.

Alyssa: [00:25:37] So then I connected with her.

Dr. Whitney: [00:25:39] You connect. So then I'm like, okay, well, what do you what do you want? Do you want to say something to him? Do you want me to write an email to the teachers? Should we should I call the parents? Like what? What do you think is the right thing to do here? You know, do you have any others ideas for ways we could address it? Like ways we can get to the bottom of this? Because I'm not. That's not fair for you to go around with everybody, like talking about you that way. Then she's excited to like, problem solve with me because I haven't said like, I'm calling the parent. I'm calling the I'm doing right. Like you're you're connecting and then you're doing some collaborative problem solving, and you're trying to do it from a space of like, calm as much as possible. So that would be my advice on how to like change this around. And it's easier said than done. But like I said, if you've slept and you've had a good meal, then you're in a better spot to do it.

Alyssa: [00:26:32] One thing that I have found helpful is also just saying, like, oh yeah, I know how that feels like. Yes, I was chatting recently with a 13 year old girl, and she was sharing just the woes of her body in ways that she doesn't like it right now. And I was like, oh my god, totally. Yeah, she got her period last year too. And so I was like, you know, what I've noticed is actually kind of worse than when I have my period. The week leading up to my period, I often feel really bloated. My pants don't fit the same. My skin can like break out and I feel oilier. And honestly, even if the rest of the world doesn't notice. When I look in the mirror, I feel differently about how I look and how I feel. And she knows. Zach, my husband and I was like. And I asked Zach this question too. Like, do you notice? And he was like, I don't notice a single difference. I was like, but I do. And I was like, I totally get that. Where you just don't, like, feel good in your body. And I said, for me, it generally like there are some different seasons of life, but also it's really related to how close am I to my period and it really affects how I feel in my body.

Alyssa: [00:27:46] Even if the rest of the world doesn't see a change. And she was like, oh yeah. And then we got to like go into that. And just the normalization of what it's like to live in a body and that it is hard. And you don't always feel like the hottest person on the planet. And yeah, it, it I had a moment. I've shared this on the pod before, but there's a human in my life who is just like the hottest person to walk the earth. And she had like, woof! It was years after having kids and we were getting into bathing suits. And she asked, do you think it's okay if I wear this suit? And it was a two piece, and at the top of her bottoms, you could see some of her stretch marks from having grown humans in her body. And I was like, what do you mean? Okay, you're the hottest person on the planet. What are you talking about? And it just was one of those moments for me where I was like, even the hottest person on the planet is getting in a bathing suit and saying, like, are people gonna throw up when they look at me? And I'm like, what? Like, yeah, this is.

Dr. Whitney: [00:28:52] Like Margot Robbie in the Barbie movie, right? Where you're like, I swear, I would love to, like, trade places with you. Body wise, looks wise, and you're talking about your cellulite and how you don't look like that was such a perfect.

Alyssa: [00:29:05] Yes.

Dr. Whitney: [00:29:06] Person to put in that role for that reason. Because it was so Ironic, right? That she's saying that. Yeah. You know, what you're doing is basically you're connecting in a different way. You're and again, you're not trying to jump in and fix it.

Alyssa: [00:29:20] You're normalizing kind of the opposite. You're doing the opposite.

Dr. Whitney: [00:29:23] You're like, yeah, there's.

Alyssa: [00:29:24] No fixing this, sister. There's no getting into a different body where you feel differently about how you look in the mirror. Yeah.

Dr. Whitney: [00:29:31] No, no, I'm I'm a huge fan of this. I'm also a huge fan with my kids of when they start to feel bad, I also start to point out like, yeah, you know, I feel like I've been watching too many like Instagram fitness people lately and it makes me feel really bad about my body, like, especially when they talk about, like, everybody has all the same 24 hours in the day, blah, blah, blah. I'm like, because when I look at my body, see the stretch marks and like, I have this little thing, you know, like I I'm not being body negative to them. Like I hate my body in the same way I think that our moms were there, like covering themselves out like I'm so fat. But you're just being honest about how we're all affected by the things that we see and by the messages we hear.

Alyssa: [00:30:16] Especially our girls. Yes, social media is good data on that. Yes, I love that. Like acknowledgement of what I consume shifts how I feel about me. I have been pregnant at the same time as Mandy Moore twice now, and we look very different postpartum, and there were times where I've had to like, she's not doing anything wrong, she's just existing and sharing about her life on social media. And there have been two times where I've had to just mute her and not see it because I was like, how are you wearing jeans right now? You had a baby four seconds ago, and I'm leaking fluids from all my holes and don't know how to put on even pants, let alone jeans. And like, I, I, I like that acknowledgement that what we're consuming, then, is infiltrating into how we feel and being able to acknowledge that in front of the humans around us who are who are struggling with these same things.

Dr. Whitney: [00:31:18] Because that never stops. I mean, it's the same with all kinds of things around our lives. I have a fellow like a business colleague that I actually helped her to kind of launch some of her stuff, and now she is so much more successful than I am. She's like hobnobbing it with all these, like, amazing people. And she has, like, a billion followers, and she has 12 employees. And every time I look at her stuff, I feel jealous, to be honest. And I love her. She's like the most genuine, sweet person I had to I had to block her on social media so that I would not see it every day, because it was making me feel so jealous.

Alyssa: [00:32:00] Yeah, like, yeah, you're in comparison mode.

Dr. Whitney: [00:32:02] I'm in comparison mode. And that is something I think as women. And I mean, it's for everyone, every human.

Alyssa: [00:32:07] But.

Dr. Whitney: [00:32:07] Especially, yes, but especially for our girls. For my girls, I know that they are comparing themselves. And so I think even modeling that type of conversation for our kids of like, hey, I have this person, they're not doing anything wrong. It's my mind playing tricks on me that I'm not good enough. So I just decided for a while I need to just not look at it. So that way I can concentrate on me.

Alyssa: [00:32:31] Yeah, yeah. I mean, just the other day, I was like, said to Zach, my husband, I was like, should I be taping my mouth for sleep? Like his mouth tape is just a thing I should be doing. And he was like, what are you talking about? He doesn't have social media. And he was like, what are you talking about? I'm very much in the perimenopause target market. Whatever.

Dr. Whitney: [00:32:51] They're hitting you hard with the ads hard.

Alyssa: [00:32:53] I'm like, oh man. Also, I should be taping my mouth. And then I almost did a story where I was just like, hey everybody, just in case you're also not taping your mouth to sleep like last night. I got nine hours of sleep sans mouth tape, and I feel great. So if you're not taping your mouth also, that's fine too, because same But it is. It's like it's a never ending cycle, right? It's like once it's not like, all right, I got the weighted vest and I'm doing the weightlifting or whatever. And then I come back and I'm like, yeah, okay. I check all the perimenopause buckets. I'm setting myself up for success. No. Then I'm like, not taping my mouth or wearing.

Dr. Whitney: [00:33:31] You can always be.

Alyssa: [00:33:32] Botox or whatever. Yes. I'm like, oh my God. That's it's never ending. Never ending. I eat gluten bless. What does this look like? There's a lot there are obviously a lot of thoughts around like the Glp1 boom. And I am a human who tends not to jump right into something or have a strong opinion right away. I like to, like, sit with something and it's really easy for me to see my initial reactions to things, but to really sit back and kind of think about like, all right. And again, Alzheimer's prevention side, like there's some early data about GLP one maybe being helpful on that side of things from a preventative standpoint for Alzheimer's. And obviously they're very helpful for other health conditions for a lot of folks. And you know, there's stuff on like addiction. And can they be helpful there. And so all this to say, it doesn't seem like they're going to leave anytime soon. And they serve it seems like a lot of purposes outside of just weight loss. Yeah. And it has really shifted like I think especially like celebrity culture. And you're like, oh, I used to see a range of bodies and now I see less of a range of bodies in terms of size. And the role that GLP ones play in that. And then what is being modeled for humans of not even just like what you're supposed to look like, but like look what's possible.

Dr. Whitney: [00:35:11] Right? Yes. Yeah. I think this is 100% a yes and conversation. I think that like everything else that comes originally from celebrity culture, of course, it has the risk of thin people who take these medications to get ultra skinny. That's going to shift how things look. I also like want to remind people about how everybody looked in like the 2000 where they were like rail thin Kate Moss situation. Right. Like we've been here before. This is just like a different way to get there. And like America's Next Top model and all of that.

Alyssa: [00:35:52] Totally.

Dr. Whitney: [00:35:53] I do worry about it for our kids in terms of the ads that talk about weight loss and that kind of minimize what the side effects could be, and also that they're not nuanced, like for our kids. I also think they're not going anywhere. And so it's going to be a conversation that behooves us to talk about it with our kids, ourselves. I know there's been a lot of people who have come out and been like, don't talk about this with your kids. This is like, oh, if you're, you know, how should you talk to kids about GLP ones don't like? Absolutely not. My kids are smarter than that. My kids are seeing the ads everywhere. They want to know. I think these drugs, though, are fabulous for a few reasons. One, I think that many of us, because of our toxic relationship with food and the fact that we used it to cope for such a long time and are messed up like scarcity mentality around it. Like our brains are so messed up that they need help. Just like a person who has diabetes needs help. Just like a person who has vision. Trouble needs help.

Alyssa: [00:36:57] You mean from the like food noise perspective?

Dr. Whitney: [00:37:00] From the food noise perspective? Exactly. And I think it can be that parents actually are better role models to their kids when they reduce that food noise, because now they're able to eat a wider variety of foods. They're not dieting, they're just eating less of everything, you know. But like, I don't think your kids are seeing that. I think your kids are seeing that you're enjoying the ice cream and not talking about how it's you can't eat that, you know?

Alyssa: [00:37:26] Yeah, sure.

Dr. Whitney: [00:37:27] And also that maybe you're in a better mental health space. So then that benefits your kids. Like, I think that there's that for sure. Yeah. My guess is because these medications do have side effects that are difficult to make it so that you maintain on the medications, you know, the GI side effects, they can make you feel pretty lousy when you're on them. I think that it will fall off in terms of it being like a celebrity thing forever, or that like, celebrities will talk about it in the same way because it won't be like a novel thing.

Alyssa: [00:37:59] But do you think, I wonder, like, will it just become a part of the culture that is normalized in the way that Botox did, where like Botox was talked about for a while, and now it's like any face that you're seeing from a celebrity perspective. And now in your hometown, a lot of them have Botox and and it's just not talked about. It's just a part of like, yeah, I get my hair done and I get Botox and will GLP ones, I wonder, just become something like that where it's like, yeah, and I take my GLP one and it's just normalized almost.

Dr. Whitney: [00:38:32] Yeah, I think it will. I think it 100% will. I think it'll be something where it's just part of our environment. Some people will be on it, some people will not be on it. I, I think it also is like Botox where like if someone is doing Botox excessively or has bad Botox. Yeah, you can.

Alyssa: [00:38:52] Tell.

Dr. Whitney: [00:38:53] If someone has fillers, you know, if someone was. But if it's.

Alyssa: [00:38:56] Like Jen Aniston's esthetician or whatever the name is of the person who does the Botox, you don't know.

Dr. Whitney: [00:39:04] Right, exactly. Although my husband would argue he was showing me like comparison of like her pre and post. He's like, she used to be so beautiful and now she wrecked her face a lot.

Alyssa: [00:39:13] Oh my God.

Dr. Whitney: [00:39:13] I love her I.

Alyssa: [00:39:14] Love her I think she's gorgeous.

Dr. Whitney: [00:39:16] I just I think so too. Also, I was like, stop commenting on women's bodies Scott. As a side note, Scott. Yeah, exactly. But I think it's going to be like that. I think it's going.

Alyssa: [00:39:27] To.

Dr. Whitney: [00:39:27] Be where you're going to be like, okay, this person obviously is kind of like abusing the medication.

Alyssa: [00:39:32] Yeah.

Dr. Whitney: [00:39:32] Just like you're.

Alyssa: [00:39:33] Kind of on the right dose of.

Dr. Whitney: [00:39:34] Botox. Exactly. Versus this person looks healthy. They look like they are like their their cheeks don't look sunken in. They you know what I mean? Like, I think that's probably what's going to happen, especially with the microdosing of it that's become more popular, where people are taking like very small amounts of it, probably just enough to help with the brain piece of it, sure, but it's not causing as much weight loss. I mean, I think the biggest threat to our kids, I just don't want kids to be going on this medication unless they are at a point where they really, really need it. And my goal is always prevention. Like my book is about like, how do we make it so that kids hopefully more and more kids have a healthy perspective on food and on their bodies and on their looks, and are able to deal with the emotions in healthy ways. So then they never need to go on a medication to deal with it.

Alyssa: [00:40:28] Yeah, yeah. And recognizing that, like, health is so far beyond what you look like and that messaging I think is still so lost of like that, you would be able to, you know, I think in reach and I'll do a breakdown after this recording where she listens to the raw audio of ours, and then she and I have a chat about it, and she'll probably share this story, but she is a. She had stage four cancer, and by the time she found out she was so thin. And also she has said there's never been a time in her life where she's received more compliments about her body than when she had stage four cancer and was so thin, everyone thought she looked so healthy and phenomenal. And she's like, I was literally dying of cancer and just didn't know it yet. Yeah, and like, there's still really a pervasive message that you'll be able to look at somebody and know if they're healthy based on their size. And that is my hope for kids is that we can really do some work around that. Yes. Looking at somebody's body doesn't tell you anything about how healthy they are.

Dr. Whitney: [00:41:30] And you can be like the thinnest kid in the world and have a raging eating disorder, and your heart is working overtime and your gut is working overtime. Yeah. I mean, I don't have all the answers on the GLP one. I don't think anybody does. But I think the biggest thing is to not villainize them completely or exalt them completely.

Alyssa: [00:41:51] That's kind of how I feel. I'm like, you gotta find the middle of the road on all things for myself for the most part. And I guess on most things I'm like one side of the pendulum or the other just won't actually resonate or connect with kids or, I think, solve problems. Right. And I can it's it's easy for me to very quickly see what feels scary about them when it comes to kids especially, and when I can pull back and think about like, okay, is this as scary as it seems in my brain immediately, right? Or is there actually a middle ground here? And I, I agree, I think that like talking to kids, I mean comes back to again, just having enough respect to talk to kids about how things work and why people might take them in the way that they might take all different medications.

Dr. Whitney: [00:42:41] Yeah.

Alyssa: [00:42:42] Yeah. Oh, thank you. Thank you for writing this book. Thanks for putting it out into the world and helping us have these conversations with our kids and and show them it just like an updated version of how we talk about bodies and food and all that jazz. And modeling real diversity in bodies and how they look throughout the book. Appreciate you. Thank you for this work.

Dr. Whitney: [00:43:06] Yeah. Yeah. I mean, you know, one thing I didn't say we didn't talk about before we closed. We didn't talk about ethnic diversity really in it. But I will tell you that the most impactful moment that I've had with this book right before it came out, is I was at the American Academy of Pediatrics conference, and we gave out like 3500 free copies to physicians, just like people came through and were like, here's a book just so they could hopefully share it with their patients. Sure. And there's a kiddo on the front, Troy, who's one of the main characters who would be considered obese. He's a very large boy with very dark skin, and I had so many black moms come up to me and just tear up like they would. I go, this is a book about body confidence. And they go, okay. And then they take it and then they look down, and then they would look at me and they go, that looks like my kid. Like, yeah, that was the point. The point was to make it so that kids could see themselves and know that they are healthy no matter what their size, no matter what their skin type, no matter how their brain works, that they have the power to be healthy no matter what. So I hope that as people consider the book, that they they know that that was a intentional piece of this was kind of go beyond what we have, like you said, to make it more modern.

Alyssa: [00:44:24] Yeah, I love it. Thank you so much. Appreciate you. Where can folks find you, follow you, learn more about your work?

Dr. Whitney: [00:44:31] Yeah. Go to Modern mommy.com. And then we have a whole section. That's called Raising body Confident Kids on the website. And that is where I talk about the book, but also there's blog articles, there's podcast episodes, all kinds of information for parents also, including how to have a really non-weight-based conversation at the doctor's office, at the pediatrician office. So that's really important to me, because I know we have not done a great job in the medical field of that, so we're trying to make things better from that end. And then I'm working on a new book that's going to come out next year. That's for parents. So it will be like the companion book. So that way people have that. So make sure that you're following along with me, modern mommy.com. And then my Instagram is Modern Mommy doc as well.

Alyssa: [00:45:18] Awesome. Thank you so much Whitney.

Dr. Whitney: [00:45:21] Thank you.

Alyssa: [00:45:22] Stay tuned. After this note from our sponsors. Rach and I will be right back with the breakdown. Okay, so I got this DM and we've never done this live on the pod, but I want to try it. Somebody said, hi Alyssa, I love your work. Someone in my life sent this to me. I'd love to hear how you would clarify. This reel. Isn't giving gentle parenting a fair explanation. I thought you'd have a response. Anyway, thanks for the work you do in the parenting community. Cheers. I try and play it okay.

Reel: [00:45:55] You know exactly what I'm talking about. I miss Brandi. I help aggressive autistic and neurotypical kids calm down. And the parents and professionals take the power. Gentle parented kids give themselves away immediately. It's the arguing, the negotiating, the constant back and forth over every direction because they've been trained at home to believe they have equal authority with adults. You say, sit down and they say, why? You say, not right now. And they say, oh, but but listen. You say no, and they act personally offended. This is not emotional intelligence. It isn't being in touch with their feelings. This is learned entitlement. General parenting teaches that every role is flexible. Every limit needs to be discussed. Every adult expectation requires a conversation before compliance, and that collapses the second they walk into a real classroom. Special ed or general ed teachers don't have 20 minutes to negotiate one instruction. Therapists don't have time to justify why writing your name isn't a violation of your rights, and every adult in the room knows the truth. If a child can't tolerate no, it's because they weren't trained to respect boundaries at home. It is that simple. If you're a teacher or therapist, here's the fastest fix stop debating. Give the instruction once and hold it gentle parenting kids are not used to adults with authority. And that's exactly why they respond to it.

Alyssa: [00:47:46] Okay, so I'm gonna discuss this for a second here.

Rachel: [00:47:49] Yeah, it's kind of loaded for me. I have a lot that I could say.

Alyssa: [00:47:54] I don't disagree that it can be really challenging for folks to know how to set and hold a boundary, while also being respectful of all the humans around them, and allow kids to have hard feelings in the process without moving the boundary.

Rachel: [00:48:20] I would agree with that assessment.

Alyssa: [00:48:22] I think that's very tricky. In fact, I just a school brought me in to do a family workshop and it was on boundaries. It was fully on. And actually I, for the first time ever in presenting, read from part of Tiny Humans where I was like, honestly, I said this the best way I could. The first time I wrote couldn't.

Rachel: [00:48:40] Have said it better.

Alyssa: [00:48:42] Yeah, I'm gonna read this for you. I think that that is part of what's coming up here is that setting and holding boundaries is a part of what we're doing. In fact, it's a really important part of what we're doing. But a lot of us grew up in a household where there was no room for feelings around boundaries, and.

Rachel: [00:49:07] No room for relationship even.

Alyssa: [00:49:09] Was no room for relationship. That's a great way to put it. And so now folks are trying to do this differently than they were raised, just trying to figure it out as they're doing it. And that's tricky. I understand the desire for us to say something to a kid and for them to say, great, can't wait to follow it Silhouette or sounds good, mom. Like. Yeah, that would be awesome. And we know how that plays out down the road. We know that that leads to more lying to more sneaking to kids not telling us the truth or coming to us when things are hard. It leads to them not having a safe space down the road to turn to because they're afraid of being in trouble. They're afraid of making a mistake and getting in trouble for it because they know the boundary, they know the rule, and they don't have a fully developed prefrontal cortex. And you can be right and in, quote, control or you can be connected. It's rare that you can be both.

Rachel: [00:50:21] Yeah. I think the first thing that comes up for me is that our work is not I would not categorize it as gentle parenting.

Alyssa: [00:50:31] Agreed. Also she like threw in emotional intelligence and I was like, girl, let's dance.

Rachel: [00:50:37] Absolutely. And I think that, like you were just saying, I agree that there's been kind of a pendulum swing to people who are trying to teach emotional intelligence and want to treat their kids with respect, and that gets a little bit conflated with permissiveness, where then they're afraid to be the, like, sturdy leader and they maybe like waffle if the kid starts to negotiate. Or they.

Alyssa: [00:51:04] Also because we want to avoid the hard right, like we want.

Rachel: [00:51:07] To not have.

Alyssa: [00:51:08] The meltdown. Yes, exactly. And the reality, I mean, this just happened the other day where sage came in. He wanted something. I don't even remember what it was at this point. And I had said no. And he kept going. And then he's crying and he's whatever. And my in-laws were over at the time and I was making lunches for the next day, and he's in the kitchen and he's crying and he's mom. Just one, just one. And I was like, but I already answered this. The answer is no. I'm not mad at him for being disappointed about the boundary. Is it my favorite that he. Yeah. It's not the best thing in my day that he's crying at my feet and following me around and feeling mad about this boundary while I'm trying to make lunches. But he's held it and he gets to be disappointed about that. Now. I wouldn't let him hurt me. He's not allowed to say things that are rude to me in that moment, like there are boundaries around what he can and can't do in terms of expression for all of us in my household. But he gets to be upset. The boundary didn't change and ultimately his crying started to change. And I said, buddy, would you like a hug? And he was like, yeah. And I just sat down and he crawled into my lap and I held him and we did not talk. And then afterwards he was like ready to move on. And I don't need to, at that point, drill in the boundary again. I don't need to revisit this at that point. I set a boundary. He was disappointed about it, I held it, he cried. I supported his emotions afterwards. And then we moved through it and moved on. There is a strong desire in that moment for me to just be like, fine, but you can have one or you can do. I don't remember what it was, but you could do whatever it was.

Rachel: [00:53:05] Yeah, of course, because it would make the difficult moment end.

Alyssa: [00:53:08] Correct.

Rachel: [00:53:09] Correct. And when you're already trying to host your in-laws and prep lunches for the next day and deal with whatever else, it's a lot to then have a kid in your ear airing out their disappointment.

Alyssa: [00:53:19] Yeah. And I'm like, I already said no. And there are times where he'll say, like, I'm going to do it anyway. And I'll say, okay, but if you go and grab just this morning. He wanted to bring a ball in the car that he had been throwing in the kitchen that I said, oh, we can't throw balls in the kitchen. It's not a safe place to throw balls. You can throw them in the playroom. And he took one. He threw it again and it was the one he had decided he wanted to bring in the car on the way. And so I walked over and I held the ball and I said, I'm going to hold this because I told you, we can't throw balls in the kitchen. It's not safe. And you threw it again. I'm going to hold this to keep everybody safe. And he's like, I need that for the car, I need it. I'm going to come get it from your hands. And I was like, you can come get it from my hands. I will hold on to it, take it back, or put it in a place where you can't reach it because it's not safe for you to throw in the kitchen. And it's my job to keep you safe. It's not stoked. It's that simple. And I recognize it's very annoying to do in the moment.

Rachel: [00:54:22] It is.

Alyssa: [00:54:23] And I think that's what's coming up a lot here for folks and mixed with just like a lot of us were raised in authoritarian households, and they want to be able to set boundaries for kids and have them listen from a place of fear. And frankly, you can do that. You can have kids often listen from a place of fear. You just are eroding your relationship with them. And that's not what I'm interested in doing personally.

Rachel: [00:54:50] Yeah, I think one thing is that another kind of vibe that I got from that clip was this idea of like, it's us versus them. Like, it's us and the kids and we're, like, against each other and we're in opposition to each other. And the adult has to take control because otherwise, you know, and I personally, that's not my goal with my kids. Something that I will often say to them when they're like, flipping out about something is like, I'm on your team. Like, we are a family and we are going to work together. And I don't want it to be like I'm the adult. So you're going to do what I say, or else I'm going to do something that scares you, or I'm going to shame you. I'm going to make you feel like crap about yourself. Because when my kids feel like we're on the same team, we move into collaboration and cooperation so much faster.

Alyssa: [00:55:39] Totally. And the reality is, there's really good data and research on what it looks like longer term for your relationship. If you're in the authoritarian space, if you're like, I'm going to rule through fear and shame and just try and guilt you into whatever it is, or make you so afraid of what my reaction would be, or the punishment would be. We know what that looks like long term and for relationships. And if you don't care if you're like, yeah, I'm fine with not having a connected relationship with my child where I'm their safe person, they can turn to great. That might be the route for you have at that. If you want to have a relationship where your person, your kid can turn to when things get hard and they need a safe space to turn to. That's probably not the road you want to go down. It's going to erode your relationship, and that data is pretty clear. And so for me, it just comes down to who do you want to be for them. What relationship do you want to have down the road? Because that's what you're laying the foundation for right now.

Rachel: [00:56:48] Yeah, I often think about that, especially after I've messed up with my kids about like what I want my relationship with them to be when they're adults.

Rachel: [00:56:59] And like what I want them to feel when they're with me or when they think about coming to me with something. And I want to be their first phone call if something hard happens, like I want them to feel like they can literally bring me anything.

Rachel: [00:57:15] And setting the foundation for that during their childhood, it's, it's a heavier lift then dominating and and using fear based obedience. It is a heavier lift and it can be draining at times. And I understand and I do it myself. Turning to permissiveness sometimes because you're just like, I need this to be over. Like you want that cookie before dinner, whatever. Have the cookie because I can't right now. So I totally understand that. But I want also people to understand that just because you are leading with relationship and connection and you're building emotional intelligence does not mean that your kid gets to run this show or that they think they get to run the show, because I think that turns a lot of people away from the opportunity to have a really connected relationship with their kid because they're like, yeah, my kid's not going to run the show. Nobody's saying that they should.

Alyssa: [00:58:11] Agreed. And I think that something that gets lost in this and I'm I think part of the problem in this is that it's not you're not going to do one or the other 100% of the time. Not like there are going to be times where I'm like, fine, take the cookie because I'm getting dinner ready and I'm gonna choose my sanity right now. I now know they're gonna push back harder next time, because they learned in that moment. If I whine enough in mom's fried enough, she's gonna let me have that cookie. Yeah. And so I know that it's a it's a real like I'm throwing that to future Alyssa, who's gonna have a harder time than if I just held that boundary now. And there are times where I'm gonna say things like, if you don't stop doing that, we're not going to be able to go to this thing tonight, because you're showing me that you cannot be in control of your body enough to go to this gathering tonight or whatever the fun thing is they want to do. Like, that stuff's going to come out of your mouth sometimes, too, and.

Rachel: [00:59:14] That's.

Alyssa: [00:59:15] Fine.

Rachel: [00:59:16] Yeah.

Alyssa: [00:59:16] Right. And, like. That's fine. I want to make sure folks recognize that there's so much nuance in this conversation. But if we find ourselves avoiding setting and holding boundaries because we're afraid of our kids big reactions, we are going to be in a space where they don't know that we are their sturdy leader, that we can be the one who is going to keep them safe, ultimately. Totally. And if they were going to do.

Rachel: [00:59:45] Something for them.

Alyssa: [00:59:46] Yes, they need to know that if things were if this ship was going down, we've got it, that we're going to step in. If they're going to take a risk that is too great, we're going to step in to bring them back because we're in charge of their health, safety and development. And when they know that, then they're actually able to go off and take more risks that are developmentally appropriate because they know if it was too big of a risk, we'd stop them. And if we are always stopping them. Then they just learn not to listen to us. And they're like, this broad doesn't know what she's talking about. She just sets arbitrary rules and boundaries just because she's having a hard day, right? And she just wants me to comply. And then down the road, they're like, yeah, I know my mom said I probably shouldn't try drugs because they're really dangerous. But she also said I shouldn't have, I don't know, this piece of chocolate with my lunch because it's not what I'm supposed to do. So I can't really trust this gal. I'm gonna try the drugs and see how that goes. There is a middle ground between it's all or it's nothing. And that's where most of us, I think, are trying to live.

Rachel: [01:00:56] Absolutely. Another interesting thing is that, and I don't know if you've ever experienced this, but I.

Alyssa: [01:01:01] Feel like the drugs example is extreme. I'm sorry.

Rachel: [01:01:04] It's okay. It was a little extreme, but it's okay.

Alyssa: [01:01:09] It's my fear. It's my fear with the. I'm afraid of what's in drugs these days.

Rachel: [01:01:16] And it's not like when we were teens.

Alyssa: [01:01:18] It's not like when we were kids. And I want my kids to take risks. I know they're going to. Especially one of them.

Rachel: [01:01:27] But you don't want them exposed to fentanyl by accident.

Alyssa: [01:01:30] I don't want them to die of an accidental overdose.

Rachel: [01:01:32] Totally.

Alyssa: [01:01:33] That is so scary to me.

Rachel: [01:01:36] I agree. And that is a different worry than our parents had when.

Alyssa: [01:01:41] Yeah. And I'm like, I need them to know how to take healthy risk. That feels really.

Rachel: [01:01:46] Important.

Alyssa: [01:01:46] To me as a parent.

Rachel: [01:01:47] I don't know if you've come across this either, but I think that I don't know what it is. I think people are more comfortable with like fear based punishment, like overhearing fear based punishment than they are with just hearing like a very clear and direct boundary. And I'll give an example. We were at a sports game and Abel asked for money to go to the snack shack, and I said, yes, you can get popcorn and you can get bubbly water. You may not get candy or Gatorade. And he was like, I'm gonna get candy. And I was like, okay, if you get candy, I'm gonna take it back from you, and I'm going to hold on to it until tomorrow, because candy is not a choice today. And another parent looked at me and was like, ooh, so strict. And I was like, that's not strict. That's just direct communication.

Alyssa: [01:02:35] Here's what you can expect from me. Directly tied to the event.

Rachel: [01:02:41] But the more like comfortable. I think what people are more used to would be like, if you go and get candy, then the next time we come here, you're not going to the snack shack. It's like.

Alyssa: [01:02:50] Well, I'm not giving you money. Then if you're going to go get candy or you're going to lose screen time, if you go get candy because you're not listening to me.

Rachel: [01:02:57] 100%, you can't win as a parent because you're either too permissive or if you're like, directly just giving direct boundaries. There's always going to be feedback.

Alyssa: [01:03:05] If you're trying to parent for the world. But I'm trying to parent for my kids, so.

Rachel: [01:03:08] Well, same. But also like I just get commentary sometimes.

Alyssa: [01:03:13] Oh all the yeah, I will say I don't get a ton of commentary yet. And I think part of it is also that people know what my job is, and they're scared of me a little bit in a way that is very silly to me, but I think there's like a I can't tell her. I'll just judge her and then talk to my friends behind her back about her and what I saw and what I observed.

Rachel: [01:03:36] Yeah. Yeah. Well, I think, like, I'm starting to feel more of the pressure as a parent and I need to, like, let it go because it's not good for my relationship with my kids. But like at that pizza situation with Abel, there was a part of me that was like, okay, well, they know that I wrote a best selling parenting book. So like, if I don't do this right, I'm invalidating my entire career.

Alyssa: [01:03:57] And doing it right means your kid ends up staying in there and eating the damn pizza, whether.

Rachel: [01:04:01] He likes it or not.

Alyssa: [01:04:02] 100%, and saying, thank you for getting me dinner, mom.

Rachel: [01:04:07] And I'm like, you have to read the book to understand why his nervous system is like.

Alyssa: [01:04:12] I am doing this right, right now.

Rachel: [01:04:16] Like there's just, you know, and I don't talk a ton about my work in my school community, but it is starting to kind of get around because of the book publishing. And the reason I've been kind of quiet about it is because I don't want people to change their behavior because they know what I do.

Alyssa: [01:04:32] They're just gonna they already know what you do.

Rachel: [01:04:35] Well, now they definitely do. With the success of the book, feeling this pressure of like.

Alyssa: [01:04:40] Your children, will you perform and show them what this could look like?

Rachel: [01:04:43] Exactly. Which is like, not good for my relationship with my kids, but it's coming up for me.

Alyssa: [01:04:49] Totally, because you're also not in it for just a short term relationship. You're in it for the long term relationship. And there are short term relationship benefits of that. But the long term is what we're going for here. And it's relationship based parenting. We're in relationship with these humans for the long term. And. Yeah, it's I also feel that where I'm like, could you just for the love. That's like when sage did perform on Miller's birthday, it was like, God, I wish I could capture this on film, but it doesn't accurately represent it's going to speak to the people who are in opposition to what we're trying to do. It would have shown them like, look, when you teach a kid how their nervous system works and you do a lot of pre-teaching, here's what it can look like. They can celebrate their sibling and not think about themselves throughout the day and come in and be so excited to show up with their sibling on their birthday and take space when they need it calmly. And then they can come back. And when their sibling doesn't want to share their toy, they are kind and thoughtful and let them know that that happens for them sometimes, too, and they'll wait until it's their turn. Like all of this played out on Miller's birthday, which was really convenient because grandparents were over. But they also know this is not normally what this looks like. And I was like, oh, I want to capture this to show these folks like, it isn't that kids are just losing their shit all the time. And we're like, okay, fine, you can have a birthday present too. Like, absolutely not. There's not a world in which sage is getting a birthday present on Milos.

Rachel: [01:06:28] Milos birthday. We just had this because it was Nora's birthday. Yeah. And actually.

Alyssa: [01:06:34] He didn't even ask, though, because he knows his role in the birthday at this point. Totally. He also knows her role in his birthday.

Rachel: [01:06:43] And that's what it is. It's like setting these expectations. And similarly, Abel did not ask for a gift, but he did come up to me and say, it feels unfair when it's not my birthday. Yeah. I was like.

Alyssa: [01:06:54] Sage said the day before. He said, I feel left out that Mila has cupcakes.

Rachel: [01:06:59] That makes sense.

Alyssa: [01:07:00] Weirder. Like party at school. And I was like, yeah, but that makes sense. This day is not about you, and they're celebrating her. And sometimes you'll feel left out when people are celebrating somebody else. And I said, sometimes you might feel two things. You might feel left out and you might feel excited to celebrate that person, too. Yeah. And I said, sometimes this happens for me when somebody gets something at work or if I really want to speak at a school or at a conference or something, and somebody else gets chosen. Sometimes I feel left out that they got picked, and I feel excited that people get to learn from them, too. You can feel both. And then the next day he was like, I'm feeling both. I love that.

Rachel: [01:07:42] I love that though of like, it's it is okay to feel disappointed or left out. And that doesn't mean you can't be happy for or celebrate or proud of the person who is in the center of the situation.

Alyssa: [01:07:53] Yeah, well, and that's what I want to teach him, right? Like, he when he came to me and said, I'm feeling left out, I could have said, like, you're gonna have your birthday. This one's like just about her. It's just like I could have dismissed his experience, and that wouldn't have taught him anything moving forward. And it would have told him, I can't go tell my mom when I'm feeling left out because I won't feel seen. She's just gonna dismiss it.

Rachel: [01:08:18] And also, I just have to muscle through my sister's party because this is what it is. Instead of like, you can also like, engage and enjoy parts of this while still feeling bummed that it's not your birthday.

Alyssa: [01:08:30] Yeah, and he was sweet, actually, that night when he was going to bed, he said, I think beans had a good birthday. And I was like, I think she did too. Like, that was the joy part where he was.

Rachel: [01:08:38] Yeah.

Alyssa: [01:08:39] Glad that she had had a good birthday. And he's really stoked for March 23rd. Both those are true. Who are we talking about today?

Rachel: [01:08:51] Okay, this is a long. Yeah. It was. This is Doctor Whitney, and it's like body.

Alyssa: [01:08:58] Body confidence. Just love yourself. Speaking of, like invalidating parenting responses, that's one that like, oh man, when I say I don't like this thing about my body, or I'm looking myself in the mirror and this feels like crap.

Rachel: [01:09:11] But you're so beautiful.

Alyssa: [01:09:13] I'm like, oh, great, now I feel beautiful. Thanks for that. Totally changed it. Wish it would have come to you sooner.

Rachel: [01:09:19] No, no, it's not a good. It's not a you don't feel seen.

Alyssa: [01:09:24] Not at all.

Rachel: [01:09:25] Yeah.

Alyssa: [01:09:25] And all I want in this world.

Rachel: [01:09:27] Nothing you say to me right now is going to change the way I feel about my body. So. And like, when I'm pmsing, I basically feel like I look like Shrek. And nothing you say is gonna change that. And if you tell me I'm pretty, I'm just irritated.

Alyssa: [01:09:41] When I was the last time I was pmsing, Zach complimented me in like, my, like, outfit or whatever I was wearing and I laughed. I just like, laughed. And he was like, what? And I was like, oh, you're serious? That's really how you feel about the way that I look today. And he was like, yeah. I was like, wow, that's cool.

Rachel: [01:10:04] You're like, as far as I'm concerned, I'm fugly. But thank you so much, 100%.

Alyssa: [01:10:09] Yeah, it was so far from what I was seeing in myself. But thanks. That's so kind of you to say, but I think about this with just like when our kids come to us, of course our instinct is going to be to dismiss how they're feeling about their body if it's not perfect. And I think it's way harder to show up and say like, yeah, oh man, I feel that sometimes too. It's so hard to live in a body.

Rachel: [01:10:36] Yeah. It is. It's like, and I think we're in this space where we've largely tried to move away from, you know, the culture that we grew up in of like SlimFast and special K breakfast and whatever else. And then there's been this like another pendulum swing to like, you can only say or think positive things about your body and like, that's not reality.

Alyssa: [01:11:00] No.

Rachel: [01:11:01] And I think.

Alyssa: [01:11:02] Even with like the ozempic world like that, there's this like ultra thin thing that's happening again, but also then just everybody's talking about it, like the number of real life people that I know, not just on the internet, who have made comments about other people's bodies where they're like, oh, she must be on Ozempic or she's doing the whatever GLP ones. And I'm like, just stop talking about that person's body.

Rachel: [01:11:27] Yeah.

Alyssa: [01:11:29] Just that you have no dog in this fight. Why does it matter to you.

Rachel: [01:11:33] Yeah it doesn't matter. But yeah that's what our kids are kind of surrounded by is like body talk surrounded by. And I actually have had to start talking to Nora about, like, her thin privilege and how I want her to be careful about. Like she may notice that her friends start talking about bodies and comparing them, and that I want her to be really careful and go into that knowing that, like culturally, her body is the ideal and what that means. For if she has friends or cousins or whatever girls her age who are comparing themselves. And I understand wanting to. You don't want your kid to feel like you're like, oh yeah, that part about you sucks. You know, like you don't want to.

Alyssa: [01:12:22] Totally.

Rachel: [01:12:23] So there's that balance of, like, acknowledging their experience without being like. Because, like, Nora has this thing about her teeth being yellow. Sure. And I don't want to be like, yeah, your teeth are yellow. That makes sense. Why you hate them, you know? Because also, that's not how I feel. But I do think, like, she like, adult teeth are a different shade than baby teeth. And so she's, like, comparing her adult teeth to her baby teeth. And I'm like, totally. It's an adjustment when you go from baby teeth that are literally like straight up snow white to adult teeth that are like more of an off white color. And it is an adjustment. And it makes sense that you still have baby teeth and they're next to each other. So you're going to notice that.

Alyssa: [01:12:59] Totally. Yeah. And I as a human who I was A00 most of as long as I can remember growing up. And there was for me then this like need to stay thin that then as I like just hormonally or when I started to get older and all of a sudden I couldn't just like, I don't know, play beer pong a bunch and have tacos and ramen noodles and bagels and stay the same size. When that started to shift, I think that big daddy line where he's like, yeah, I have a milkshake in my ass, jiggles for like, a week, and I'm like, yeah, there comes an age where it's like, yeah, that happens. And then having kids and all that jazz. And I look back now and I'm like, I look at pictures of me where I'm like, I know how I felt about my body at that time. That's insane. Like, it's insane because I was so tiny and I had just moved into, like a size two or a four instead of a zero or A00. People had always known me in that body. I had always known me in that body totally. As it started to shift and change, it was just like, whoa! And I'm so glad I didn't have social media.

Rachel: [01:14:20] I think, like for me, that kind of reinforces because this is the same for me. And I can actually picture this photo of myself at a pool. I think it was the summer before I married Cody or right after. So it was like 20 or 21. So I was obviously thin. No stretch marks. Things are perky. They're where they're supposed to be, you know?

Alyssa: [01:14:41] Totally.

Rachel: [01:14:42] And I remember like, being so aware of how I was posing for this photo so that, like, my thighs and my stomach would look a certain way. And I'm like, if I was unsatisfied with my body when it looked like that. It's not actually about hope for this. No, it's not about there is no hope, but it's not actually about what I look like. And I think that at this point in my life, I have a more positive feeling about my body than I did then, which is wild because I have a ton of gray hair. I have like £30 on that body. I've got stretch marks up, the yin yang, my boobs. You can tell I've breastfed multiple children like things are not great, but I actually feel I actually.

Alyssa: [01:15:33] Things are not great. Things are not great over here. I mean.

Rachel: [01:15:38] They're just objectively, they're not. But I think, like, I actually. I actually feel a lot more acceptance for this body than I felt for that. Like very thin.

Alyssa: [01:15:51] Toned, cool.

Rachel: [01:15:52] Tight little teenage body because I'm just like, yeah, this body has given me two kids, I survived cancer. It's dealing with multiple autoimmune diseases, and frankly, she's doing pretty damn good. So if things are a little saggy or a little stretch mark or a little hairy, it's like, what more can I ask of this body? Really?

Alyssa: [01:16:11] Totally, totally. And I will say, for me, it totally depends on where I am in my cycle as to how I feel about the body I live in. And like that plays such a role for me.

Rachel: [01:16:22] I mean, it makes sense.

Alyssa: [01:16:23] I agree though, that there was like comfort. And I think I shared this in this episode that there was a human in my life who's the hottest person on the planet who once was like, Will, will it be like gross for people? They kind of like, be offended if I wore this bikini and I was like, what?

Rachel: [01:16:43] Also, can you be naked?

Alyssa: [01:16:44] You should just be walking around the world naked all the time.

Rachel: [01:16:50] Do I know this person?

Alyssa: [01:16:51] Yeah.

Rachel: [01:16:52] Okay. When we get off air, I need you to tell me who you're talking.

Alyssa: [01:16:55] About, okay? And it was for me, though. That is something that has stuck with me of, like, I'm not going to get to a place where I love looking in the mirror every day, and I'm like, you're so hot. And that's okay. Like, that is okay. That they're going to be days where I'm like, first of all, we got to cover this thing up. And second of all, what feels good on it, what looks good on it. Like I can't move through it. It's usually around my period. And then there are times where I'm like, yeah, I should be in nothing all day today because.

Rachel: [01:17:28] That's your ovulatory

Alyssa: [01:17:31] 100%.

Rachel: [01:17:32] Exactly. I know I become a sex goddess for two days every month.

Alyssa: [01:17:37] 100%. And you better capitalize on those two, baby. And I like. Seriously, I have come to realize those patterns. And I'm like, oh, the body I live in isn't even a part of this equation. It's what's happening inside the body that I live in hormonally that dictates so much of like, what's my perception of the body I live in?

Rachel: [01:18:01] Yeah, 100%. The other thing is like, you know, when you're in the car, you don't have makeup on, and you, you're in the natural daylight and you look in the mirror. That's a real doozy for me, where I'm just like, whoa, whoa. I hope this is not what other people see.

Alyssa: [01:18:20] This is what I look like. It turns out hundred percent.

Rachel: [01:18:24] Or it's like, if I don't wear makeup and somebody's like, are you tired? And I'm like, nope, this is just this is what I look like.

Alyssa: [01:18:33] My face is just my face. Oh.

Rachel: [01:18:38] There was one thing in here that you mentioned how your mom would have you wear Vaseline instead of wearing mascara.

Alyssa: [01:18:46] Isn't that the most bullshit thing you've ever heard in your life?

Rachel: [01:18:49] Totally. And I had a similar experience where, like, I would get ready for school and then it would be like, go wash your face, you're not wearing that. So I would wash my face and then I would take makeup and I would do my makeup at school. And I thought that I was going to that was a pattern that I expected to repeat where I was going to be like, nope, you're not going to wear makeup, you're too young, you're not doing that. And then Nora has started wearing makeup to school, and it's actually like, fun. She's asking me for advice and like, wanting to be cool. I get to be. She thinks I'm cool right now because I'm, like, teaching her how to do blush so she doesn't look like a clown. And then like, I introduced her to mascara. Yeah, we're like bonding over it. And I'm like, actually, I love this.

Alyssa: [01:19:34] That's fun.

Rachel: [01:19:35] It is.

Alyssa: [01:19:36] That's fun. Because there's probably a part of you that knows that it doesn't matter if she wears makeup. No one in this world gets to do anything to her differently because she has makeup on. And if they do, that's not on her. That's on them.

Rachel: [01:19:53] 100%. Yes.

Rachel: [01:19:57] Yeah, that could be a whole other discussion. But since you have a kid to wake up, I think I'll just say yes.

Alyssa: [01:20:05] Oh, yeah, it's a whole other discussion.

Rachel: [01:20:08] It's so much.

Alyssa: [01:20:10] Thanks for doing this shit with me. Thanks for living in a body near my body and listening to me. You're the one that I talk to about my body. Probably the most because I'm just like, hey, what's happening to my body? Is it dying? You're my doctor. But also when I'm just like, wow, look at all the iterations of this body.

Rachel: [01:20:33] Totally just random. I'll just get random surprise bra and underwear pictures of Alyssa with no context. Just there she is.

Alyssa: [01:20:40] Like this body keeps changing. Isn't this wild?

Rachel: [01:20:45] I actually love it.

Alyssa: [01:20:47] You've gotten pictures of fluids that have come out of me with no context. All of it?

Rachel: [01:20:52] Yeah. It's. Yeah, I love it. I'm here for it. I'm your doctor, so.

Alyssa: [01:20:56] Yeah. Exactly. You need the full context?

Rachel: [01:20:59] Absolutely.

Alyssa: [01:21:01] Thanks for tuning in to Voices Of Your Village. Check out the transcript at Voices Of Your Village. Com. Did you know that we have a special community over on Instagram hanging out every day with more free content? Come join us at. Take a screenshot of you tuning in. Share it on the gram and tag. To let me know your key takeaway. If you're digging this podcast, make sure to subscribe so you don't miss an episode. We love collaborating with you to raise emotionally intelligent humans.