Morning Routines and Mom Rage, with Shelly Robinson

Disclaimer: This transcript was generated with the help of AI and may contain minor errors or inconsistencies. Please refer to the audio for the most accurate representation of the conversation.

Alyssa (00:00.086)

You're listening to Voices of Your Village and today we're diving into one of the most requested topics, what to do when rage takes over. I'm joined by parent coach Shelly Robinson to talk about what's really happening when we lose it on our kids, why it feels so hard to stay calm during everyday routines like getting out the door, and how we can show up with more intention even when our capacity is low.

We also unpack what it looks like to raise multiple kids with completely different nervous systems and how to co-create routines that actually reduce conflict. If you're someone who feels like you're snapping more than you'd like, or you're navigating sibling tension, sensory mismatches, or that gnawing sense that you're failing, you're in the right place. All right, folks, let's dive in.

Alyssa (00:47.576)

Hey there, I'm Alyssa Blask Campbell. I'm a mom with a master's degree in early childhood education and co-creator of the Collaborative Emotion Processing Method. I'm here to walk alongside you through the messy, vulnerable parts of being humans raising other humans with deep thoughts and actionable tips. Let's dive in together.

Alyssa (01:09.154)

Shelly, how many kids do you have?

I have two kids. have a 15 year old and a 10 year old.

Alright, boy, girl, what's your...

My 15 year old is a boy and he towers above me now. I'm 5'10 and he had 6'2. So this is a whole new world for me. Yeah. And my 10 year old is a girl. Yeah.

Okay, we have boy girl over here too. Five year age gap, how's that been?

Shelly (01:31.534)

It's been good. know, every chapter is a little bit different. It was really sweet in the beginning to have a big brother taking care of a little baby. But now at 10 and 15, it's a pretty big gap with pretty big differences. So it makes choosing movie night hard. It makes game night hard. It's just, they have such different interests and personalities and ages. So.

It's been challenging for me as the parent who wants to bring us all together all the time to say, do we all want to do together? It is tricky.

Yeah, finding sameness and commonality. Yeah, that makes sense. I'm one of five kids and my younger brother's five years younger than me. Okay. And then I have three older brothers and the next one closest to me is four years older and then six and then eight years. So it was like bang, bang, bang for the first three and then a gap and then me and then a gap and then my younger brother. And it is interesting to think about it like game night and that sort of thing. feel like

with five kids. We were, as the younger ones, just thrust into, what are the big kids doing? I was watching the movie The Rock at a really young age, friends, things like that, where it just, you just had big siblings playing 007, GoldenEye on N64 when I was probably far too young. But it just was what it was, it's number four of five kids.

Right, yeah, with the first one, I was like little bit precious with like, okay, we're not gonna do this until you're 10. And now with my younger one, I'm like, I don't know, just, I think it's fine.

Alyssa (03:10.126)

I'm sure it's fine. I was just saying that a friend of mine is newly a parent and she's been in the early ed space for a very long time. And we were just talking about how she was like, wow, all these things that I thought I cared about that now that I'm a parent, I actually don't care about. And I was like, honestly, that just continued to happen for me as I then just had a second kid where there were things that I just realized, oh, it doesn't really matter.

that one thing doesn't matter or I don't actually care that maybe that's something I read on social media but in practice I don't care if my kid has some ice cream with us when she's eight months old and we're out for ice cream and she's not supposed to have sugar until she's two or whatever that is I'm like she's about to turn two and let me tell you she's had some sugar.

Just like things like that. I just don't care. Yeah. And other people might really care about those things. And I think that's fine too. Yeah. I've just learned for myself, there's actually so little that I truly care enough about to put effort into.

Yeah, yeah, because it chips away your capacity all the caring, know, like there's so much that now I'm a raging mess because of all the caring.

Yes.

Alyssa (04:28.81)

Exactly. Well, and that's like a perfect segue in today's conversation about rage. And really, I'm so curious your thoughts on like, how do we figure out what's at the root of our rage? Because I think sometimes for me, I step back and I'm like, no, I'm ragey because this is not in alignment with my values, whatever's happening. I feel like I'm raising a human who doesn't

isn't going to be in line with my values. They're rude or they're disrespectful or whatever. And I value respect for one another and not in the way that I was raised where it was obedience, but I think being kind to each other is important. And so sometimes it's one that's that and sometimes I've just like heard too many sounds in the last hour.

Yeah, I know. I wish there was this really simple formula that said, are ragey because of this, this, and this. And if you just fix this, this, and this, you would be fine, right? Because I obviously look at parenting through the reparenting lens a lot of time and the inner child wound. So sometimes I have to be really careful online when I'm sharing things to not oversimplify, like you're ragey because of your inner child wound. Yes, that could be the case for sure. Or like you said, you could be overstimulated.

You could be what you're talking about with the values. I totally get that. It could be fear underneath of that. Like, my gosh, I am raising an XYZ, an entitled kid, a selfish kid, right? And for kids and adults, that fear, if we don't like metabolize it or process it or talk to someone about it or name it, it often just mutates into anger, right? Because we don't know what to do with it. And so we discharge it onto our kids or our...

kids just turned on to us and it doesn't have anywhere to go other than onto each other. So there could be so many different layers as to why, but I think that's part of this work that we're all doing together. It's the discernment and the attunement to our own big emotions like that, right? We want to be able to teach our kids how to name their emotions, but yet we're like, I don't know what I am. It just feels messy inside and I want to go have a margarita now, you know?

Alyssa (06:37.432)

With some salt, please. Yeah.

Yeah, so it's just a lot of things but part of the work is just learning how to like get still and say this is actually what's going on and this is how I'm going to give myself what I need right now.

I think about this with like, for me with rage, there are times where it's a one-off. Where I just like, it was this day or I was having a moment or we were all just at capacity or over capacity. And then there are things where, my gosh, every time we're on the way to school, getting out the door,

getting into the car, then the humans in the car are driving each other nuts, and then I'm ragey by the time we get to school. when I, those in my brain are different. Where the one-offs, I'm like, okay, I can kind of leave guilt at the door. It doesn't sit with me all day. I can easily access repair. I'm like, oh, buddy, I'm sorry. I was feeling overwhelmed and I wasn't kind to you. I'm gonna slow down and be kinder to you.

Yeah.

Alyssa (07:47.064)

But when it feels like, no, this is happening on repeat. And now even the thought of starting the transition to leave the house for school has me agitated. Can we walk through those for folks? I'm sure I'm not alone in that, that there are times of the day or things in routine, going to bed, brushing teeth, whatever it is, that we end up

ragey and just in conflict with each other. What do we do there when we notice that pattern?

Yeah, I think what you're describing is so common and I've gone through that as well, whether it's bedtime or breakfast or getting out the door, whatever it is. And I think when it becomes kind of chronic like that, when we're all chronically grumpy and annoyed with each other in those situations, I think for me, what I always do first is name it, but not name it at my kids. Name it as like, gosh, I am really noticing that in the mornings we are having a hard time getting out the door. And then just ask them if they...

with you because maybe they think it's fine and they're all cool with it. So that's important to know too, right? If they see it as a problem, but they probably don't. They probably don't like the energy of feeling rushed. They don't like the energy of mom or dad being cranky. They don't like feeling like, you know, like everything feels stressful. So naming it is step one, I think. And then offering or inviting them to come up with a solution together. So it's not.

us being like in this hierarchical position where we're like, we're going to do it like this and you better get your act together and here's how it's going to be right because they automatically feel depending on your kids personality, they're either going to be scared or they're going to be like, screw you. I'm not over.

Alyssa (09:31.432)

dead body that was me that was me as a kid it's me as an adult like you tell me what to do and I'm doing the opposite.

or other kids might shrink, but either way, they're not reactions of empowerment, right? They're either rebellion or shrinking. We don't want either of those really.

Well, we're not connected then. They're not like, okay, we're this together. We're in this together. And there's a million things that I ask them to do that are annoying things that they don't want to do. And I know that when we're more connected, when we're in this thing together, they're more apt to say, sure, I'll do that thing. I'll get dressed. I'll brush my teeth or yeah, I'll go grab that for my sister when we're connected first. if we don't, if it's not on a foundation of connection, my kid will just be like,

No, I'm not doing that. And then we're in conflict. And so I like that frame that there are ways we could maybe kind of get this done. Yeah. Where we say power over, here's what we're going to do. But it doesn't lead to connection and that will have ripple effects.

Exactly. Yeah, it's this idea of co-creating the solution together, right? Because now they're invested and they feel empowered and like that their voice matters and that's all sowing seeds of connection right there. And so it's gonna look a little different for each family, right? Because there isn't like this one size fits all solution. So for my family, for instance, getting out the door for my daughter, a tool that's helpful for her is a checklist. Like she, and I love checklists. I love having like a visual reminder of like, okay, I gotta do this, this, this and that.

Shelly (11:00.002)

My son doesn't need those or really care to have those, but he wants to be woken up like 10 minutes earlier, right? So they both kind of tuned in to like what they needed. And we're doing this on this foundation of connection, right? And then we're giving them the tools to say, what do I need? And helping them to like solve the problem on their own, if it's age appropriate, right? We're not gonna maybe ask a two-year-old that question, but you know, they can still be involved and they can still solve it together at their own capacity.

And then we're teaching our kids kind of like through the side door how to figure this out themselves and build confidence and feel resilient when things get stressful and be like, okay, this is a stressful situation, but I know how to solve this because I was given a chance to solve it. And then our job, I think as the parents is just to kind of be their accountability buddy and guide them. And it's okay to be helpful. We don't have to overdo it for them.

We're tripping over ourselves serving them, but if they're having a hard time in the morning, like my daughter was this morning and I was like, hey, do you need a little help with your lunch? She's like, yes, thank you. I don't do that every day, but it's our job as parents to notice, like, I can see they're struggling and there's no reason I can't just help out right now.

I mean, we want them to ask for help. We want to raise humans who know that it's okay to need help, and that starts now. I also really like that you noted the difference in the human. So in my household, I have an autistic child, neurodivergent, and I have a neurotypical human. And they both need different things from me and for me to show up in different ways.

for my neurodivergent child, when we are leaving the house or doing any transition, but especially if we're leaving the house, as we're going out the door, now there's seven million things that he's like, wait, I have to go do this. And it's like, have to write a note to my friend Hunter so that we can put it in the mailbox so that he can whatever for later. And I'm like, you do not need to do that right now. And I start to then get the rage, like, no, you do not. And this is really common for neurodivergent humans.

Alyssa (13:01.102)

Whereas they're in the transition, it's just like squirrel, like I have to do this other thing or they, more things all of a sudden feel so important. The focusing on the task at hand and getting to the next step can be really challenging. And so I love the use of a visual aid. also have, I have outside the moment said, hey, I've noticed that every time we try to get out the door for school, you think of more things that you feel like you need to do right then. And then,

it looks like you don't like feeling rushed if you go and do some of those things and then we're walking out the door and your shoes aren't on and your jacket's not on and you're feeling rushed. And so I wanna figure out a plan for what we can do if we're going out the door and you think of more things that you need to do. And what we have created is just like this little magnetic whiteboard situation that's super small that you can tell me like.

write a note to Hunter or whatever, and he can offload those ideas to me and I can jot them down right there and it lives right near the door. Honestly, it's a tool for me, where I'm like, how do I get us out the door? But he can offload in his brain what he's thinking about and what he feels like needs to happen before he goes to school, line up his tools, whatever it is, and he writes it down and I'm like, okay, great, now it's right here when we get home from school, you can check your list, you can do all those things. I won't.

move your tools that are already out or whatever. And so then he can like move through with more ease, but he has to offload what's in his brain in order to access those next steps. My daughter doesn't need that. I can say, hey girl, we're heading out the door, time to come put socks and shoes. She might, because she's so very me in a lot of ways, might be like, no. But if I can especially access it in a playful way where I'm like, my gosh, and I'm telling her a story, like guess what?

And while I'm telling her a story, we're putting socks and shoes on and whatever, she can access the actual transition in a way that his brain cannot without a visual aid or a tool. So I loved that note. There's something, the capacity. One thing that you mentioned there was task management. That just because your daughter can do something doesn't mean she has to, or recognizing that.

Alyssa (15:20.83)

if she puts her energy and effort into making her lunch or doing the task at hand, it is draining her to put that energy elsewhere. so I will do things like zip up my kid's jacket or lay out their clothes or help them get dressed because I know that if I do some of those things for them, then they have more capacity, especially our sensory sensitive kids.

They're going to have more capacity for other things that we're going to want them to do in the day, emotional regulation, conflict management. So I love that you mentioned that as a part of this, that sometimes we're going to step in and help our kids do things we know they know how to do.

Yeah. Yeah. And the beautiful thing about doing that for our kids consistently and modeling that is as they get older, and I'm getting to witness this with my 10, but especially my 15 year old who's becoming more and more independent is that I will give you an example of last night. Like I was very overwhelmed making dinner and I was very annoyed and I kept burning things. It was just a very odd night of like dinner chaos. And he could see that I was struggling. Am I capable of making dinner?

Yes, like he was busy doing like homework or something, but he could hear me like cursing under my breath out there, like sighing. And he came out and he's like, do you need help? He's like, can I do anything for you? And it was just so sweet because again, it's that modeling, like he knew I could finish it. I wasn't going to like have a nervous breakdown, but I, you know, I said, actually, yes, if you could just get the air fryer out, my hands are kind of full. I burnt something I need to clean up. And so it's just really lovely to see that kind of stuff come full circle.

when you've been modeling that for most of your kid's childhood. There's one other thing I wanted to mention too, Alyssa, with regards to that process of, we're talking about connection, right? That's kind of step one. The second step, I think, is the co-creation, like solving the problem together, coming up with a solution. And then I think it's one of the easiest ones to forget. It's another letter C, is celebrating. So we kind of expect kids to just do it. Just do it, come on, I'm asking you to just do it, okay?

Shelly (17:28.394)

Often I know I get into like a habit of just expecting and not celebrating or appreciating. And so I always try to make a point, like if we do this consistently and if we're even just two days in a row, we do it really well. I'm like, my gosh, you guys are crushing it. We don't have to be like totally corny about it, but just like a quick little like, thank you so much. I really am noticing how hard you're working at this because I know how, you know, as moms, we know how good it feels to be appreciated.

Both of my kids, again, it's kind of that full circle work where most nights they say thank you for dinner or thank you for like this meal or, you know, my husband's constantly saying that. And so it's really lovely when we can give that to them and then they can give it back to other people who they appreciate. But it is really easy to just take for granted. Like our kids should be doing this and, you know, we don't owe them any celebration, but gosh, it feels good to be celebrated sometimes, doesn't it?

Just acknowledged, right? Like to feel seen for what you're doing. And if we want to raise kids who are going to do that, who are going to say, thanks for making dinner, my almost two-year-old will say this most nights. She'll go, thanks for making dinner, daddy. He does most of the dinners in our And it's so precious. almost every night we sit down for dinner, I say, hey, babe, thanks for making dinner. And so that's been modeled for her. She didn't come up with it on her own. She's seen it.

almost every night for about two years. And now she does it as a part of kind of her appreciation routine habit. And I just came out of like busy book launch season and realized like, I don't even know if I have thought about a single thing around this house in two months. Like the garbage was being taken out, the recycling was being taken out, like all these things that were just running in the background.

that I didn't pay attention to that were the balls that I was willing to let fall and drop. And my husband just picked most of them up and took care of them. And I just paused the other day and I was like, thank you for keeping this ship afloat and the house running while I was launching big kids and on the go. And also I was traveling a bunch. So he was solo parenting a lot through that too. It's not like he was chilling.

Shelly (19:24.493)

Yep.

Alyssa (19:47.584)

and his routine was the same. And he was like, yeah, thanks for noticing. it's that, it's that you noticed that I've been doing these things to be kind and that's what we're giving to kids. I love that note of celebrating. I don't think we have to overdo it where we're like, now we're gonna have a pizza party or you're gonna get a thing every time you do it. Like, it's simply like, I noticed this. Thanks for helping your sister out this morning, but that was really kind.

Yeah, yeah, absolutely. And you know, we're talking a little bit about parental rage and we touched on like some of the reasons behind that, right? And I think for so many parents, especially moms, like it's the feeling underappreciated and unseen. so, you know, we can obviously have conversations with our partner if we are, you know, married or living with someone raising kids together to ask for that. But also it's where a lot of our reparenting work comes in. And it's about just like,

celebrating yourself and acknowledging yourself. And I used to have this really like sad, negative practice at bedtime every night, like when I was a much younger parent, and I would lay in bed and just think about all the ways I screwed up that day. And I'm like, I yelled during this time and I didn't do this and I didn't do that. And I would just kind of like drown in all the things I sucked at that day. And of course that spills over into the next morning, right? I'm carrying that energy into breakfast and

So I switched, said, you know what, I'm gonna do this experiment where I'm just gonna list three to five things that I'm really proud of that I did that day. And that has become a nightly practice. I do it on walks and I just, I know it sounds really corny and it does feel corny at the beginning, but just kind of like acknowledging where you're crushing it and just giving yourself that gift of being like, you did really good in X, Y or Z, whatever it is. And again, it feels weird and corny, but it really does change your mood.

And it just kind of lifts you up in a way that you can't really get anywhere else, right? And it's, again, it's lovely to get that from a friend or a partner, but that's not always possible. So if you can just be your number one rating fan, it really makes a difference in the anger department.

Alyssa (21:55.554)

There's really great research and science to pack this up that what you pay attention to is what your brain will then look for. And so if you are saying at the end of the day, man, here's all the ways I dropped the ball today. That's what you're going to start to look for. And that's going to be the narrative you have about who you are as a parent. And that's going to then fuel how do you show up. So I have a little journal that I write. It's the like six year journal. So every year it's one line a day.

And I have one for each of my kids where before I go to bed at night, I write just one line to each of them. And so can see like exactly on that day, one year ago or two years ago or three years ago or four years ago, what was the line I wrote. almost every night I don't want to do it. It feels like an annoying task, like brushing my teeth. And then after I do it, I love it. And it's this opportunity for me to just...

And it's not always cheerful. Sometimes it's, man, we had a really hard time connecting this afternoon or you are so sick right now and I wish I could make that go away and I'm so grateful. I just got to snuggle your body today or whatever. Like it's not always like we had the best day ever. Everything's great. It's real and authentic. What I try to do is really speak to like,

who we were in relationship that day. And I always end it with, love you. Whatever I write, like even if it's we had a hard time connecting and I love you. Every time that's what it ends with. So that maybe one day if they read these, it's not just I loved you when things were easy, but I love you even when they're hard.

Yeah. you're speaking to something that I love so much, which is just the power of being witnessed in all of it, right? To be seen and to be loved through all of it. And what a gift. I love that. I love that. I've never heard of that journal. I'll have to check it out.

Alyssa (23:58.678)

I love it. Somebody gave it to me when Sage was born and I got one from when Mila was born. It was a really thoughtful gift that I had also not heard of before that and I dig it. It also is fun to hear like, or to read like, three years ago, he was just starting to say data or whatever it is. That's so wild. When we do lose our shit because we will, right? When we do have those rage moments.

How do, what do we do next? How do we move through this in a way that also isn't like an empty apology where it's like, I'm sorry. And then we're still doing every time we leave the house for school or on our drive to school, just, you know, if anyone else can relate to the drive to school being the most annoying part of my day, maybe tied with dinnertime right now. woo.

And so what do we do when we lose it so that it's not like an empty like, I'm sorry, but then we're doing the same thing on repeat. And that doesn't shame our kids where it's not like, yeah, I'm sorry for losing my cool. And if you wouldn't have done 7 million things before we were trying to get out the door, it wouldn't have been like this. Right.

Yeah, the old faux-po-logy where you place the blame back on the person. Yeah. So I think what you said, I love that you're acknowledging that there are empty kind of apologies where like, I'm sorry I yelled at you, but you know, the but or just, just constantly saying, I'm sorry, I yelled at you on the way to school and it's happening five days out of five days during the week. So for me, I am tempted because I've got repair so wired into my brain where I'm like, it's so important to repair with our kids.

I apologize.

Shelly (25:36.214)

It is tempting for me to sometimes just quickly apologize to get it over with because there are times where it still feels icky to me and my ego is like really upset and really hurt that I have to make this apology because I screwed up. So sometimes I do have to wait, especially I've noticed with my teenage son, until I can apologize in an authentic and genuine way and mean it. Because sometimes I don't even know why I'm angry or why I got so ragey in those moments. So I think waiting to apologize, not

Don't let too many days go by, right? Like give yourself an hour if you need to, but give yourself an appropriate amount of time where you can maybe reflect a little bit and then apologize and then explain, not as an excuse, but just kind of what was going on for you and then what you're gonna do to make it better next time. Like, I'm sorry I yelled at you on the way to school. I'm noticing that I feel really rushed getting out the door, so I'm gonna set my alarm clock for 10 minutes earlier or whatever it is you're gonna do too late.

actually make a change in your own behavior, right? Because I think you're right, it's easy just to keep apologizing and then a kid's like, well, okay, so he or she's still yelling and I don't really feel like this apology is like, it's starting to feel a little empty and then they start feeling disconnected from you. Yeah, so that's just the part of this that's really hard is owning our shit in it and saying, ugh, I don't wanna get up 10 minutes earlier. I don't wanna go to bed 10 minutes earlier.

busy scrolling or whatever it is or maybe we're doing something more productive. don't know.

I think most of us are not in that last half hour at least. What's that? I think most of us are not very productive in it. No. know, minimum that last half hour. Yeah. Yeah.

Shelly (27:15.502)

our role in it and saying this is what I'm gonna do and you know like maybe checking in with your kid if this is like a chronic thing if on the way to school is there's a lot of yelling you know checking in at the end of the week and saying did that feel better for you because gosh it felt better for me and just kind of keeping that conversation open so that they know you're working on it and you're committed to actually improving in that area.

What if they are the problem, it's them, right? Where like, you're like, yeah, no, I'm doing the things for them and we're getting out the door and I've got breakfast for them and everything. Like I'm doing all of these things and they're being rude to their sibling the entire drive or they don't want anyone to look at them. And it's like, well, people might look at you, right? Like whatever it is.

Not that I'm speaking from any experience. But like what if they're the problem, it's them.

Yeah, I mean, this kind of reminds me a little bit of the conversation we just had where we don't want to place blame on the kid. Like, what's wrong with you? Why are you doing this? But rather, I'm noticing that this is happening, and I bet that doesn't feel good for you. What can we do to figure this out together so that you feel like we're getting out of the house and we're leaving with a smile on our face, or it feels good and our energy is high and happy? And maybe sometimes that's getting

And I know, like, I don't, I want to say this and I feel like there could be like a collective groan, but maybe it's just five minutes of filling their cup in the morning with connection with them, right? Sometimes that's just really regulating for some kids, just getting five extra minutes with mom or dad where they feel seen and witnessed. We have a quick, like, play a little game, whatever it is. Not every kid needs that maybe in the morning, but some kids do. So that's where it's tricky because you do have to really attune to what your unique child needs. Maybe they need five extra minutes with you. Maybe they need

Shelly (29:10.296)

something to kind of just regulate them. It's an instrument or something to kind of like a sensory toy to help kind of calm their nerves a little bit. But just figuring out together so that it's a collaborative solution and not this like dictatorship where you're just laying down the law and then they just want to shrink or rebel.

Yeah, yes. I think we often think that it'll take more time than that. And so the idea of like, I'm going to carve out time for connection can feel really overwhelming. But if we're like, yeah, it's max five minutes, sometimes it's a minute. It's just noticing them. That can go a long way. One of the things that we've been talking a lot about, my kids are a sensory mismatch and a connection mismatch. So yeah, my daughter is high connection seeking and

has higher sensory seeking needs. My son is lower connection seeking and has higher sensory sensitivities. So for him, he can get really overwhelmed and overstimulated in a space if there's talking, if there's a lot going on. And she is in your space and in your face from the moment she wakes up. She's like, hi, good morning. And she's kind, but she is in your space and in your face. And we've talked since...

she was probably six months old and started moving and babbling and whatever, and we started to really see little bits of who she is, that she loves to connect. And she is gonna keep trying to connect until she feels connected. And so even if he doesn't want to in that moment, if he can slow down and say, good morning, Mila, then she will generally leave him alone because she feels connected.

And so we've said things like, you don't have to. She's going to keep trying. So if you want her to stop coming up to you and talking to you and getting in your space and getting in your face, if you pause and say good morning, that's probably going to make her stop. If you keep ignoring her and then screaming no at her or screaming things like, there's nothing you could do that would make me connect with you, her need for connection isn't going to go away.

Shelly (31:23.214)

Yeah.

It's a conversation we've had so many times and it has been helpful in that he sometimes I'll say she's gonna keep trying bud. And so I go, good morning Mila. Whatever it is. And also have said, yeah, sometimes she doesn't stop after that. Sometimes she still wants to connect more and you might feel overwhelmed if that's happening and.

we're in the car or whatever. And she's like, Sagey, look at me, Sagey, watch this, Sagey, did you see this? Sagey, Sagey. And he's like, for the love of everything, holy, stop saying my name, having heard mama seven billion times a day, I can relate where I'm like, you have a dad, you can try his name. And so can relate to that feeling. And so we've talked about like, what can you do if you can't control her? You can't make her stop saying Sagey, you can't make her do anything.

If you scream, if you get loud, she gets louder. So what can you do? You could say, yep, I see that, sis, and I need a break. Or right now, his favorite is, Mila, I need a break as he's hiding under his jacket, where he puts his jacket on, his hood over his face, and he's in this little cocoon. And that for her, then we can say, when you see his jacket over his face, he needs a break.

here's what you can do and we can coach her. It has meant a lot of talking about this stuff outside the moment. That in the moment is not the time that we're building these skills. It's talking about them outside the moment, which can feel like, where do you find the time to do that? And the ROI of talking about things outside the moment is so great. The return on investment, right?

Alyssa (33:11.278)

I'm building these tools then, I can't build them in the moment, but it does require me to have those conversations with him when he's not in a dysregulated state.

Yeah, yeah, I love that. I love that eventually you do get that time back, right? It's that investment upfront that does take a little bit of time, energy that you might not feel like you have access to. But then in the long run, you're equipping them with skills to navigate this stuff, right? Because they're not only going to confront conflict just at home, they're gonna have to deal with this in classrooms and other social situations. And now they're gonna have tools that you taught them to use when they're feeling overwhelmed.

and they're gonna know how to respond in a respectful way, but still, you know, advocate and protect themselves. And so I think that's beautiful. I was gonna share a story. So it's so interesting to hear your stories with your kids who are younger and like I have older kids that are 10 and 15. And what we talk about a lot kind of in the light of like attunement and like each child needing something differently is having different expectations for each child. So I have a 15 year old and a 10 year old and my 15 year old

life experience and brain has just been around longer, right? And sometimes he gets frustrated that we don't have the identical expectations of our 10 year old that we do for him. And so there's at this age, a lot of, you know, age appropriate brain talk about like, well, you know, when you're 10, you're not quite ready. Sometimes, you know, maybe some 10 year olds, but like most 10 year olds aren't able to think quite that far into the future, right? And so it's really hard for her to.

plan that way where my 15 year old is naturally a planner and he's just five years older, right? And so he has different capacity for that sort of thing. And so it's really just teaching them in a non-judgmental way, like what's going on in their brain, what's going on in their bodies and how to still treat each other in a way that's respectful and, you know, compassionate.

Alyssa (35:05.196)

Yeah, for us, this is the difference between fairness and equity of that what equity doesn't mean it's equal. It doesn't mean that we have the same expectations. It doesn't mean that we all need the same things or we all get the same things. Equity is that we all get what we need. And actually, I had shared a reel on Instagram that went viral of me talking to Sage about the difference between fairness and equity.

It had just come up at breakfast where he was saying that they didn't get the same number of French toast sticks. And I was like, yeah, totally. She might say that's not fair, Sage got more. And then we got to go into, well, what does Sage's body need? Sage's body needed this number of French toast sticks. What did Mila's body need? It needed this number.

and he has a little seat that he sits on at school that can spin that gets him vestibular input and other kids in the class have different flex seating as well or have access to noise canceling headphones or things that they need to thrive in the space. And so we talk about what does each person need and that's when we're looking at equity is getting everybody what they need. It doesn't mean that things are fair and this starts to come up more and more.

I was just in a sixth grade classroom recently and chatting with a group of sixth graders. And this was such a hot topic of like, it's not fair. And we got to talk a lot about like, yeah, it's not that we all actually need different things. And if we all got what was equal, if we all just got the same thing, then we wouldn't actually all be able to learn that if I sit on a spinny seat, I actually get nauseous. That makes me feel sick.

Yeah.

Alyssa (36:58.254)

And so if I'm sitting on that seat, I'm going to have a hard time learning. But if you're sitting on that seat, that helps you learn. That's what equity is. And so when we're looking at making sure that everyone has what they need, it might not look fair on the surface.

Right. I love that. And I think, yeah, what you said is if we all got the same thing, so many of us wouldn't get what we need. And that's, you know, if we're talking about learning, then we can't have the capacity to learn. Just like as parents, like we don't all need the same thing, but we all need different things to have the capacity to be able to respond the way we want to respond. And so it just puts us in a posture of non-judgmentalness. I don't know if that's a word, but

dead.

Shelly (37:44.886)

It is now. And you know, it's a much lovelier place to exist than in this like, well, I need, I want that they have this. And I think we get caught up with this in social media too, and we're scrolling all day, comparing ourselves to other parents, other people. And if we can just really honor what our bodies uniquely need, what our children's bodies uniquely need, it just puts your family in such a more harmonious, regulated state when everyone is just getting what they need.

Yeah, well, and think that's part of the problem is that as parents, think a lot of us feel like we have needs that aren't being met and that then we're operating from lower capacity. was just doing this work, I've had the privilege of meeting a bunch of parenting influencers at events and in community. there is a pretty well-known parenting influencer who has a lot of financial privilege and doesn't share about it.

They have a cleaner at their house twice a week. They have somebody who helps get their kids out of the door for school and is picking them up from school and staying until bedtime. They have a lot of help that I think a lot of us are like, yes, sign me up. I would take it. I feel like I need it. And we don't talk a whole lot about this, but I do some private consulting for some families that'll bring me in and I can observe the kids in their household space.

I work with a couple families each year and there's a family that I worked with that I come in and there's a house manager, they have a chef, they have nannies for the kids. They've like a full household staff. And I walked in and there was just like a sense of calm and contentment in the house with the kids and all that jazz going on. And I was like, this is so validating because this is actually what we all need to run a house. It's like, we could all use a chef.

and a cleaner and a house manager and the nannies and everything to support us. And instead, so many of us are in silos just trying to make it all work, trying to figure out when do I have time to scrub the bathroom or make dinner or order groceries or meal plan or get the kids next size up things and bring these things to the post office and whatnot. And that a lot of us, I think, are in this feeling like our needs aren't met.

Shelly (39:50.562)

Yes.

Alyssa (40:08.84)

And so then it's real quick and easy for us to get to a point of rage. And I wish there was a bigger conversation, I think especially from big influencers, maybe even an acknowledgement that most humans' needs as parents aren't met in a way that allow them to be their most regulated selves a lot of the time. And that we have system inequities.

there that make it easier for some people to access regulation.

Right, that's so true. That's so true. And I think based on how so many of us were raised, our default mode about how we feel about our own anger is that we're wrong and bad. We don't say, we don't peel back the layers. And I'm not saying this in a negative way. It's kind of how we were wired. If our parents or our adults in our world, especially as little girls, like, don't be mad. Put a smile on that face. You know, I don't like it when you're angry.

right?

Shelly (41:10.336)

and being made to feel ashamed. We have this internalized shame about being angry as women now. And I think if we could shift that conversation to your anger makes so much sense. Like I just want parents to be like, I make so much sense. And it can feel overwhelming with like, okay, well, X, Y, and Z are causing me anger. Where do I even begin? Because I get that question a lot.

And for me, and then what I advise other people to do is just start with like the lowest hanging fruit because it can feel overwhelming and paralyzing to think there are so many hard things overwhelming me right now. I don't even know where to begin. And then you're kind of stuck. But if you can just pick like the lowest hanging, most obvious fruit to just start with, to kind of make a tiny bit of momentum in that area of your life, whether, you know, sometimes we can't ask for or pay for help, but wherever you can get a little bit more support where you need it, whether that's from a partner or from a friend or a community.

It really does make an amazing difference and it can snowball into that momentum that you need to get out from under that like crushing weight of obligations that we all have.

Totally, and just like, yeah, my bathrooms are gonna be dirty when you come over, buckle up, right? Or like, I'm not in a season where you're gonna receive a handwritten thank you note from me. Maybe one day, but right now it's not that season. For me, it's been a like, what can I let go of so that I can have more capacity? But I do think that's important to acknowledge that a lot of parents right now are seeing these messages in these.

ideas on Instagram. It's like, feel like I'm supposed to be doing that. I'm supposed to be able to access that and embody that. And I'm still so ragey. And it's like, yeah, because everybody's treading water to stay afloat. And you're not failing if you're like, this feels hard. It is hard to do without a lot of financial privilege. And even with financial privilege, it's hard.

Alyssa (43:08.514)

But the financial privilege at least can buy you the help and support to offload some of the things in your own to-do list.

Absolutely. And if we can learn the skill of responding to things being hard instead of responding to it by comparing ourselves to what we see on social media saying, I don't do it like that. I'm wrong or bad. If we could respond with like, yeah, it is hard. We don't even have to fix it in that moment. We can just kind of be that inner parent that we need. Like, yeah, that is hard. And just starting with that. And I kind of like even just saying that to myself right now, it kind of just gives you this like exhale like.

No wonder you're

Shelly (43:44.782)

thank you for acknowledging that. And then even that tiny little exhale can give you the capacity to maybe problem solve it a little bit, right? But when we're stuck in that like self judgment and I'm wrong and bad, you don't have any creativity. We don't have the intellectual capacity to like think about like how to come up with a solution. It could be like a pretty simple solution, right? But we can't access it because we're like mired in the shame and the guilt of like who we think we're supposed to be.

100%. Yes, I think giving ourselves grace is so stinking key. Yeah. thank you for your work. Thank you for helping us all just feel a little bit better about ourselves on this journey. appreciate you. Where can folks find you, connect with you, learn more about your work?

I'm raising yourself on all the socials Instagram Facebook and tik-tok and you can find me on my website at Shelly Robinson comm

Thank you so much. Stay tuned after this note from our sponsors. Rach and I will be right back with the breakdown.

Thank you.

Alyssa (44:51.118)

As a sensory mismatch, parent to child, was talking about me parenting Sage and that we're a sensory mismatch. He's sensory sensitive, I'm neutral seeking. And there are times that I feel like he's gonna be missing out on some fun or some thing or whatever. And it's that actually I would be missing out on something. Like for instance, this Polar Express, I worked with

this organization locally that puts on the Polar Express ride for kids and we are doing a sensory friendly train car ride and that means there's like no Christmas carols being sung on it and a few other just sensory supports that are in place. I was talking to Zach about it in a way of like, can we support him in a way where he can then get to a place where he could be on the Polar Express train car where there's singing Christmas carols and whatever. And Zach was like, he could be on that.

It is going to drain him. That's what we saw last year. Like he was fine on the Polar Express. was the rest of the day he was a disaster because this sensory experience of that train car had been a disaster for him and so draining. And he was like, Alyssa, he's not gonna be sad to miss the singing. I said to him this year, Sage, there's two options for the Polar Express ride. A car where they sing the Christmas carols,

or a car ride on the train, everything else will be the same for you, but they don't sing." And he was like, don't sing. Like, not even a thought, he didn't think about it for a

No, that's a no-brainer for him.

Alyssa (46:29.454)

100%. He's like, unsubscribe to the singing train car. He's not missing out. But if it were me and everyone was doing the singing train car ride and everybody else was like, we, for instance, he has friends who are going to be on these other cars, but we're not doing that because we're doing the sensory friendly one. Zach was like, he does not care. We knew people.

riding last year at the same time as us. He didn't even want to sit near them. He does not care. So I would care.

Okay, so I have this but the inverse with Nora. So the other day, Nora had found out from her friends that their moms had gone to Target together with all of them, and they're also my really good friends. And so Nora was like, Mom, Miss Stacey and Miss Jenny went to Target, why weren't me invited? And I was like, well, it's a Tuesday, and they know that I'm really busy on Tuesdays with work, and that that's enough for me.

being busy on a Tuesday with work isn't enough for me. I'm not trying to go to Target with my kids. And I was like, so probably they just knew I wouldn't want to go. And also like, it's okay for them to go without me. I don't mind. It doesn't hurt my feelings. And she was like, but I wanted to go. It hurts my feelings. And I am like, totally. Like you are my sensory seeker with high connection needs. It makes sense that you would hear about a trip to Target and be bummed. Meanwhile, I have the opposite of FOMO. It's like the fear of being included. I don't.

want to go they knew not to they knew not to invite me

Alyssa (47:59.552)

Fear of

But it is, it's that when your needs are in opposition to somebody that you're in close relationship with, whether it's your kid, it's your spouse, or even a colleague, like you and I, our nervous systems are a mismatch.

I was just saying to Kai, I was like, Erica and I are a sensory match from a nervous system perspective. And she and I actually have very similar nervous systems. We have different reactive states where when she's dysregulated, she tends to fawn and I've never met fawn. I almost always go into fight mode and she can go into fight mode, she does sometimes, but she fawns way more than I do. But we have almost the exact same sensory sensitivities.

and need for input.

and connection needs.

Rachel (48:55.448)

So yeah, so we are so different in so many ways. And so it's figuring out knowing that of like, there are times in parenthood when I am anticipating what I think are the kids needs, but they're actually mine. Like you were saying with Sage or even like, I will get like stressed knowing that I don't wanna do something, but Nora will wanna do something and that I should stretch myself and Abel so that Nora gets to experience this thing.

The nervous system impacts everything I do in parenthood and in life, but particularly in-

100%. Yeah, and actually, was just asking, I was talking about this other business idea I have with the nervous system, obviously. Classic. And she was like, do you think that if you knew then what you know now about your nervous system and Zach's nervous system, you would have chosen him as a partner? I was like, that's such an interesting question because

From a sensory perspective, we are a mismatch. And connection needs, like, there's a lot that we have to put work into and be very intentional about for our relationship to be healthy for both of us and feel good for both of us. It would not be the same level of work with somebody who's a sensory match. There'll be different work, there'll be different things, because you're still gonna come to the table with like biases and from your childhood and all the, you know, lived experience stuff.

But from a sensory perspective, yeah, we're not a match.

Rachel (50:33.934)

100%. I mean, Cody and I are not a match.

Mm-hmm.

So many times in my life I have to say to him, and I try to do it in a kind way, but I have to say to him, like, I need way less talking. I need less questions. I need less comments on things that don't require commentary. I just need less.

Yeah, and I'm like, let's talk it out. Let's go. Yeah, it's a while. I have a friend whose husband passed away from cancer a number of years ago, and she's got a couple kids, and she is now in a relationship, has been for a little while with someone, and she was talking about this. She was like, my first husband, we were a sensory mismatch. And she was like, it is wild.

because now I'm in a relationship with someone where we're a sensory match. And just to see those differences of just coexisting, communicating, like all of that. And I know so many people who are in sensory mismatch relationships, and it's so interesting to me.

Rachel (51:42.968)

Totally. And like, don't know. I mean, I didn't know. We didn't know what we know about the nervous system when we chose our partners and-

Do that to ourselves.

Alyssa (51:51.544)

Why are we even drawn to that? Like, why are we even drawn to that mismatch?

I don't know, I think, it like, pheromones, is it biology? I don't know, and I wouldn't choose somebody else, but as the nervous system has become my job, essentially, and also as I have done, you know, years of therapy and inner child work and internal family systems and all of this stuff, and I'm realizing how I show up in this world is so different than how Cody shows up in the world, and also how we showed up in the world when we met versus now, right? So there's like all these layers of change, and I wouldn't choose a different person.

but I can imagine it would feel a lot easier if just like our basic neurobiology functioned the same way.

Totally.

Totally. that's she was saying, my friend, she was like, obviously, 10 out of 10 wish my husband was still alive. And it's just wild to have this situation where now I'm experiencing a relationship and just the day to day where their neurobiology is in alignment and how that operates. I'm just so intrigued by like, what is it? Why are so many of us in sensory mismatch relationships? What are we drawn to?

Alyssa (53:03.306)

My relationship through college and a little bit after that I was in right before Zach, we were more of a sensory match, but it was volatile. Like I yell, you yell. Like there was so much where Zach gets so overwhelmed and he shuts down, but that was more in the like reactive states. Like when we're in our primal brain, that partner and I both go into fight mode more and Zach has never met fight mode.

and almost always just like freezes or flees or combo. And I think that when our relationship started, I was really drawn to that, where it was like a break for my cortisol almost, that somebody wasn't yelling back at me. And I got to learn how to have conflict that didn't involve yelling. And I think I was really drawn to that, which was really just his reactive state as he shuts down.

Totally. think about, like one thing that I felt with Cody immediately was a sense of safety. And that was a huge draw of just like, there was an instant safe and comfortable feel to our relationship and like a deep trust. And then also there was sexual attraction. So like that combination was like, okay, this is a really good thing.

Totally.

Rachel (54:30.982)

And it's interesting that like I had that felt safety even though our nervous systems are in opposition to each other. Now I'm like, want to research about this and how, you know what I mean? It's just like, think attraction is really complex too. There's so many layers of like what makes us feel attracted. There's biology, there's cognitive aspects, there's emotional aspects. Obviously there's nervous system-ish to deal with. But I think like thinking back to how it felt in the early days, mostly it felt safe.

Hmm.

Alyssa (55:01.582)

Mm-hmm, yeah, I 100 % agree with that for me. That it was the second relationship in my life where I really felt safe and trust in a different way than I'd ever experienced. And actually, that was in complete opposition to my previous relationship where safety was nowhere to be found. And physical, emotional trust, any of it, like just was not a part of that relationship.

was a real gross relationship for me.

I mean, my relationship prior to Cody was emotionally volatile and like definitely a lack of trust and even a lack of like fidelity. And yeah, emotionally volatile. Like I felt very strongly about him, but also he could bring out the harder or worse like sides of me and my emotions more than I had ever experienced previously.

It wasn't healthy. It was passionate for sure, but it was not healthy.

Yeah, yeah, same. So I'm so curious about this from like a this entry match mismatch, how it shows up.

Rachel (56:14.734)

I have to say something. So I was running errands. I'm at my sister's house. This is in the town that I grew up in. And I went downtown to buy a Christmas gift before coming to record. And he was walking the street and he saw me and turned around and walked in the other direction.

in your mid thirties.

Yeah, and like we saw each other at our high school reunion.

This is the one from the high school reunion. Okay. Villagers are going to remember this because it was in the breakdown.

Right, so like he wasn't normal. I expected to like go in for a hug, be normal. Introduce me to your wife, tell me about your kids. I would love to hear it. Nope, he like gave me this super awkward double hand handshake.

Alyssa (57:00.374)

Yeah, I remember this now. Okay.

Yes. I guess today he just didn't have it in him to...

Double handshake?

And I was prepared to just be like, and keep walking. Nope, saw me and literally did a 180 and got out of dodge.

obsessed. Oh man, we, I think I speak for the village on this, that we would like more interactions from the two of you to continue so that we can continue to follow this journey. I appreciate it.

Rachel (57:36.102)

As I'm moving back to this town, so more to come for sure.

Yeah

This is what I'm here for. Give the people what they want, Give the people what they want. Who do we get to chat about today?

this is the tea.

Skip.

Rachel (57:51.83)

Okay, so this is Shelly Robinson and this is mom rage and navigating routines that trigger us. And I think my biggest takeaway, you guys talked about a bunch of stuff that was good and like felt like, okay, yes. The biggest thing that I think I took away from it was when you guys were talking about interacting with children, you were outlining it in a way of just like treating them like people.

Like knowing that they can't always show up as their full selves. Knowing that it's meaningful to acknowledge when they do something kind or when they are helpful in the same way that we would if another adult was doing it, but we don't always extend that to children. That was my biggest thing of like, yeah, relationships with our kids work best when we are able to treat them as people.

Mm-hmm.

Rachel (58:49.082)

and have realistic expectations for what they're able to access in a given moment. And it doesn't mean that like, okay, well, we're showing up perfectly now because I'm treating you like the person that you are, but it's just having that sort of reciprocal respect where they're allowed to show up and not have full capacity and so are we. And how to navigate that in a more kind way that's in alignment with what we want for ourselves and them.

rather than trying to avoid having mom rage ever or never being mad or always expecting the kids to show up perfectly so that we are not triggered.

Mm-hmm. I think what's so tough about being in relationship with our kids is that being in relationship with anyone that you live with means that a lot of people in the world get the masking side of them that's like holding it together and trying to show up in certain ways and you know being uber kind and whatever and we often we get

the rest that we say this a lot that like school gets the best of my kids and we get the rest that we get whatever they have left to give. And the same is true though for me, like the front facing world often gets the most regulated, kindest, most generous interpretation, Alyssa and

my kids get the rest, or I'm I'm spent, or I'm fried, or I don't want to, or I've heard too many sounds from other people all day, and now hearing, mom, mom, mom, mom, mom, mom, we watch this, mom, mom, can you come see this, mom, come look at this, and I'm like, I wanna chuck something out a window right now, because do you know the word dad? And I- Absolutely. I think that's something that's so hard, just about being in relationship with people, especially the humans we live with.

Rachel (01:00:45.934)

Mm-hmm.

Alyssa (01:00:53.614)

And I understand how when we have lower capacity and our kids have lower capacity because it's 5 p.m. and we've both gone through the day, how easy it is to stop treating each other like humans, to be annoyed with one another, to just for the love of everything holy, can you be kind to your sibling?

or speak to me kindly or do the thing, put the dish in the sink or put your backpack away or whatever. When we find ourselves having a hard time treating the child in front of us with respect and treating them like a full human who's allowed to have a hard time or a bad day or forget to do something or have a tone, I think it's really...

that we are at lower capacity in those moments.

Yeah, and that's when you get into that, at least for me, I get into that headspace of like, why do you have to make everything difficult?

100%. And it's really, I am not regulated enough to see that you've been on Planet Earth for seven years and you're just a human who's gone through a day and you're spent.

Rachel (01:02:12.192)

Absolutely. we actually, the day back to school from Christmas break.

Thanksgiving break.

Right, yep, everything's good here. I'm mentally...

We're thriving. Hashtag thriving. Making memories. Christmas memory.

So many memories. But yes, was Thanksgiving. It was Thanksgiving break. And I knew that for one of my kids going back to school was going to be incredible for her. And for one of them, was going to drain the life out of him. we obviously, she also had a basketball game right after school. So a full day of school after a week off and then, oh, sorry, buddy, we're staying at school for another two hours for your sister's game.

Rachel (01:02:55.48)

So we get home and I have dinner waiting. So I'm plating dinner and I can just tell it's not gonna go well. First of all, it's too hot, which it's perfect temperature, but right now for him, it's too hot. And then like the rice was too sticky. So I cool it off and give it back to him. Now it's too cold. So now I reheat it a little bit, but now the texture's changed because the temperature's changed so many times. So.

I just let it go for a little bit and about a half hour later, he comes out into the kitchen where I'm still just doing like house tasks and he's like, I need something to eat. And I'm like, okay, did you eat your dinner? And he just starts full crying and he's like, I'm so tired. Goes and lays face down on the living room floor and just cries silently.

And so there's two parts of me, right? There's the part of me that's like, well, you wouldn't be in this state if you just eaten the effing meal that I served you, like the king that you are. But then the other part of me is like, okay, today was really hard for him, the opposite of what his nervous system thrives on. And because he is introceptively sensitive, the temperature and textures, it's a real narrow window of what's acceptable. And so I just.

You

He asked for four pieces of cinnamon sugar toast as an alternative. And that's what he had for dinner. He had four pieces of cinnamon sugar toast. And in that moment, there was part of me that was like, you know, there are people who have routines and their kids sit down and they're fed what they're served.

Alyssa (01:04:38.796)

cough over here. It's a winter cough.

My kid is sitting in front of a screen downing bread covered in sugar. And it's the best I could do in that moment. And it's the best that he could do. Nora ate what I served her. it was not.

to a party after the basketball game. And Ian whatever was at the party and had a sleepover and what.

Immediately she was like, can I FaceTime Campbell? And I'm like, you were just with Campbell for 12 hours. What could you possibly want from Campbell?

It's so funny because we do in our house after like dinner, we play, whatever. And then around six o'clock, Zach takes Mila up and does her bath time and Sage can watch a show and like have a snack at that point. Or finishes dinner if he has not had dinner. Like just silently, he doesn't want me to touch him. He wants me to be in the room if possible, but also doesn't super care about that. And he mostly does not want me to make a bunch of noise. So he's like, don't rip the beans for the coffee for tomorrow.

Alyssa (01:05:40.206)

like just be quiet. I'm not gonna watch my. Yep. And then they switch and Mila comes down and she and I hang and she can watch a show or have a snack or play or whatever. And Sage goes up for bath and then Zach puts him to bed. And so I say goodnight to him and he goes up. About 75 % of the time when Mila comes down and she and I are hanging, she asks to FaceTime somebody. She's like.

Yeah.

Alyssa (01:06:09.23)

I want to bring more people into this. Like, I need more hang time. And my parents the other day, they're like, I feel like we haven't FaceTimed with Sage in so long. And I was like, yeah, he doesn't want to hang out with more people. it's not, a weekend day is the most ideal day for him to FaceTime them because he's not dealing with the stimuli of school and whatever. But for her, she could just like go, go, go.

Yeah, that's funny. In fact, Abel's friends will call him and FaceTime and he will, he'll FaceTime them and then it'll be like five minutes and he'll come out and Nora will be like, what happened? And Abel will be like, I don't know, I just told him that I had to go. And like that blows Nora's mind. She's like, wait, why? Why did you say that? And he's like, cause I was done talking.

And she's just like absolutely flabbergasted. Cause there's never a time where she's like, all right, I've had enough. I'm going to hang up. It's me being like, your phone time's up for the night. So you can have five minutes to finish up the conversation and we're to put it away. For Abel, he's like, five minutes is more than enough. Five minutes is my whole conversation. I'm finishing it up now and I'm over it. And it's again, that sensory need opposition. It's so real.

Yeah, and connection needs in there and it's bonkers. But I think when I think about the conversation Shelley and I had and just rage in general, if we can support the nervous system, which requires us to understand how our individual nervous system works, for me, I know that it is a game changer if I have more capacity. I don't have to be my most regulated self on the planet, but more capacity

allows me to respond rather than react more often. I will also say for me, understanding then my child's nervous system gives me then more compassion for them. And I'm like, why can she do this and he can't? Because of their nervous systems. And then I have to come back to, like our conversation started, it's okay that like,

Alyssa (01:08:22.186)

If Abel FaceTimes or chats with somebody for five minutes and then he's done, it doesn't mean he's gonna be 16 and not wanna go hang out with friends and just be playing video games alone in his room because he's wanna hang out with anyone. I can quickly jump to that. I'm like, no, I have to build his ability to do these things, to build these relationships, to want that. And Zach's like living proof that you don't have to want.

Totally, and he's fulfilled and has a wonderful life and he has great friendships.

Correct. And he would hang out with zero people ever if I didn't like make the plans and like, hey, we're gonna go do this thing. Or Francesca and the girls came over and had a sleepover last weekend. He's like, cool, he's down with it. But he doesn't seek it out because he doesn't need it. He can tolerate it and he's fine with it. If it was happening all the time, like he has a definitely way lower capacity for it from a stimuli perspective. But he's like, yeah, come on over, have a sleepover or let's hang, let's do this thing.

but he won't seek it out because he doesn't need it in the way that I do.

Yeah. One other thing, as I think about mom rage specifically, that I have found helpful is talking to my kids about the week before my period and how my capacity is so much lower during that time and normalizing that for them. And not as like normalize me being mean to them, cause that's not what is happening, but normalizing for them that like,

Rachel (01:09:56.95)

I can't handle as much noise in the car or like I'm tired. And so after dinnertime, when maybe I would still be like cheerful and wanting to play and like entertain and whatever, like I don't want to, I want to read my book. And if you guys fight, it's going to really annoy me. And now it's like, I've normalized it enough for them that I can just be like, you know what guys, I'm PMSing and I'm feeling super tired. And I don't feel like I have a lot of capacity for shenanigans. Okay. And they can.

understand that. And it doesn't mean that they're not still being kids, but it does mean that they know that I show up a little bit differently in relationship with them, mainly less energy and more of like, I don't really want to do that. If you could go make your noise away from me, that would be cool. I don't want to play monster trucks and I'm not going to, but you can try again next week. But like they know that I need more rest during that time. And I'm not my like go getter chipper self. I

frankly, would love to just be alone completely for the entire week. And normalizing that for them of like, I can't always show up as my best version of their mom. And that has been helpful too. Also normalizing for them, like when you're tired or your capacity is low, you can share that with me and I can try to adjust my expectations of you.

Then you can have four pieces of sugar toast for dinner because you can't handle the temperature and texture of the rice. Our expectations shift based on their capacity, if we know their capacity. And ours for ourselves can shift too. I like that as a message. And paired with the like, just because you have lower capacity doesn't mean you get to be rude to the people around you. It doesn't mean you get to snap at them. And...

It does mean you might hear the note to playing that game, or you might see me reading and kind of slowing down a bit more. I like that, normalizing of that flow.

Rachel (01:12:00.6)

Yeah, and yeah, not as an excuse to be mean to them, but just an adjustment of the family expectations.

Yeah, totally. What they can expect from you in terms of bandwidth and capacity, just that it's lower. Yeah, I love that. love it. Speaking of which, I just started my period today, so cheers. This is actually where things get easier for me too. It's like once it starts, we're good. The team always knows in our weekly team meetings what week I'm in. Either I'm like, this is a great idea, let's run with it. Yes, let's brainstorm.

Thanks.

Rachel (01:12:33.757)

Turn it

Burn it all to the ground. No, we're not doing this next.

I just finished mine and I am so thankful that my computer didn't break during PMS week. Also, as an aside, but kind of in the same vein, had to make my kids gingerbread houses because gluten-free. And the dough was so finicky.

They want, they like to. I don't-

My kids know. And this is like an area where I'm pretty comfortable. I'm pretty good in the kitchen, right? But this dough, it almost sent me. It was so difficult to deal with. And like, you have to like use a template and cut it in the shape. And like, I would cut it and then the dough would be too warm. So like, I would try to like move it and it would lose the correct shape.

Rachel (01:13:38.712)

So I was like putting these cookie sheets out in the snow to try to chill the dough. And it's like, this is the kind of stuff where I'm like, I want to want this. I want to be the magic maker for you guys. But like this kind of stuff, it's too much. Being the holiday magic maker is too much sometimes.

Rachel (01:14:04.366)

I'm just, it's hard to be alive sometimes, you know?

Rachel (01:14:10.83)

I mean, me too. This is also like diagnosis time. So I'm back and forth between like, oh, I hate being the magic maker and also being like, I could be dead. So maybe I should stop.

Rachel (01:14:23.49)

Yep, that's right. Love you.