Post-Holiday Meltdowns and School Refusal with The OT Butterfly, Laura Petix

Alyssa: [00:00:00] You're listening to Voices Of Your Village, and today's episode is one so many of you have asked for how to navigate the rocky transition back to school after the holidays, and not just for our kids, but for ourselves too. I'm joined by my friend Laura Petix, also known as The OT Butterfly. She's a pediatric occupational therapist, a neurodivergent mom raising a neurodivergent kid, and the author of a kid's book about neurodiversity. This convo is a mix of validation, strategy, and yep, me too moments you're going to want to come back to. We talk about how to actually support regulation in those first few weeks back, whether your kid is a sensory seeker or sensory sensitive, and how to lower demands, build in, support, and reset your own expectations. We also get into the emotional side of school refusal, those brutal morning meltdowns, and why some kids just need a longer runway to get going again. Plus, Laura shares her brilliant nervous system budget analogy, which I think you're gonna love. This one's for anyone. Starting the year already feeling tapped out and trying to figure out how to make reentry just a little softer. All right, folks, let's dive in. 

Hey there. I'm Alyssa Blask Campbell. I'm a mom with a master's degree in early childhood education and co-creator of the collaborative emotion processing method.

Alyssa: [00:01:28] I'm here to walk alongside you through the messy, vulnerable parts of being humans, raising other humans with deep thoughts and actionable tips. Let's dive in together. Rachel, my co-author of Big Kids she listens to the raw audio of the podcast, and then she and I do a breakdown of, like, what does this look like in real life with her kids? Like going from the expert convo to a couple of moms hanging out and chatting. Oh, I love that. Oh. That's awesome. Okay, cool. Cool. It's super fun to get to do. That's a good that's a really good format. Thank you. I love the podcast. It's one of my favorite parts of my job. I just get to hang with cool people like you and chat about stuff that I think is interesting, and then hang with Rachel and talk about being a mom. And then. And if you don't have to edit it, that's even better, because half the time in my head I'm like, oh, I gotta edit. That's awesome. Yeah. Yeah. She is a phenomenal. She does all the editing. She does all the booking of the guests and the organization of everything. And so good ad communication. And she's awesome. Fantastic. How are you doing? I'm doing well. I'm good. I'm starting to plan out my 2026 and see what that looks like.

Laura: [00:02:44] I spent like all day yesterday on ChatGPT. Like trying to have it walk me through. Like what I was, help plan my life. I'm like, stuck in my head. I stopped feeling guilty about it. I'm like, this is an accommodation for my ADHD.

Alyssa: [00:02:57] I use it a bunch and I will say I have no guilt about it. Yeah, just full stop. What holidays do you celebrate in this season, if any?

Laura: [00:03:06] Yeah, we celebrate Christmas. You do? Yeah. It's rad. Yeah. Yeah. Will you be home for Christmas? Will you be traveling? What's that look like for you this year? We have all of our family. Our close family is like, within 30 minutes to an hour, most of it. So we'll just be over at my cousin's house. I grew up always spending Christmas with my cousins. We're Filipino, so cousins are everything to Filipinos. I grew up with friends who were not Filipino, and they had like one cousin that lived in like Idaho. And they're like, I never see my cousin. I'm like, I have like 33 cousins, and they're all my best friends, like, I couldn't imagine. So I love that. So trying to recreate that for her, especially because she's an only child. So it's really. Yeah. The only child thing is so many pros and cons. But yeah, totally.

Alyssa: [00:03:58] Definitely my husband. My husband's an only child and I'm one of five.

Laura: [00:04:02] Oh my gosh. Okay. Yeah. And he's an only child with, like he has one blood cousin, actually. He's got a couple other cousins that have come into the mix through adoption and second marriages and stuff like that, but Such a small family in comparison to mine. My mom's one of eight in her family. My dad's one of six. Most of the human kids.

Laura: [00:04:26] What is he remember growing up for? Like, what was his holidays like as an only child with not even any cousins? Like, what did did they go on vacation? I feel like if you don't have any excitement.

Alyssa: [00:04:35] That's fair. No. Yeah. Like, what do you do when you have that? So they would go to his mom's parents, like his grandparents and the aunts and uncles, and then the cousins that he has would come. There's it's just such a smaller hang than my household is insane. And there's so many of us, and it would be a total zoo in the best way. And yeah, he's also a sensory sensitive human. And I'm sensory seeking. And so I think the size didn't suck for him. He's like this kind of work.

Laura: [00:05:07] It was like by design, perhaps. Perhaps it was by design. I don't know what his parents decided, but also my my daughter's an only child, and she's also sensory sensitive and requires a lot more connection. And I feel like I hear from other people who say, like when you have another one, just naturally you find a way to connect with them. But I just I cannot envision how that would work with the amount of like in depth, quality connection she requires, like full attention. I just don't know.

Alyssa: [00:05:41] Sure. Well, and I will say, because my firstborn is autistic, sensory sensitive, and he wants an adult to be watching everything he does in and whatever. Yeah, and I think it was a good stretch for him of his rubber band when we had my daughter in that he up until that point, there was always an adult in some capacity who could be like, okay, I'll come watch you do this thing or whatever. And then all of a sudden there was a waiting period. And yeah, I wasn't just always available in a way I had been. I was super nervous about it. And he still loves adult attention and wants specifically adult attention. Yeah, but he now has a higher tolerance for waiting. Or if I say, yep, I'm cooking dinner. Here's what's available. You can come hang out with me in here. Or I saw that your sister was playing in the kitchen in there. You could ask her if she wants to play, and that's not his first choice, but yeah, he has. I feel like it's been a good stretch of his rubber band where he's like, practiced some skills. And again, I'm gonna say nya's first choice. Yeah.

Laura: [00:06:56] I could totally see that. I remember having to fabricate scenarios to get her to practice to wait early on. Yeah. Like I think one of the first things I did was I unsubscribed to the premium Spotify, so she had to listen to commercials. I had to, like, fabricate lots of different ways to increase her waiting tolerance from an early age, because I was like, this is not sustainable the way that this kid needs things like now immediate.

Alyssa: [00:07:20] Yeah. That dopamine. Yeah for sure. For sure can relate. I was watching a football game live and I often record them. So because I like football and I actually want to watch the game and I'll watch after the kids are down. But the game I wanted to watch was starting after the kids were gonna be down. And so I was watching it live and I was like, oh, I can't fast forward through these commercials. What is this, like the worst?

Laura: [00:07:43] The immediate reason, I tell you, I started bringing my fidgets to the couch because I have all my fidgets by my work desk and like where I read. But then I noticed anytime there was even, like a 32nd ad, I was just reaching for my phone, or I'll be watching something with my husband, and then he'll like, go take a bathroom break and immediately grab the phone. And I started putting my phone in a different spot. But then I still had this urge. I'm like, I've just got to bring fidgets everywhere. And they they helped. They helped a lot. Take the edge off.

Alyssa: [00:08:18] Yes. It's so real. It's so real. Well, I feel like you and I could get nerdy about this all day because the, like, fidgets. And why are we doing it and what's happening behind it? And why are we reaching for stuff? And when I'm thinking about, like, that same lens and this season where it's after the holidays and kids are going back to school, and I think a lot of us are like, okay, phew, we made it through the wilderness. Kids are going back to school. We're going to be back in routine. Things are going to have a flow again. And then they're like actually there's.

Alyssa: [00:08:55] Not.

Alyssa: [00:08:56] Quite so much dysregulation and so much school refusal. And so can you talk to us about kind of how the holidays, just by being out of routine and all that jazz affects the nervous systems of all humans and also specifically of our neurodivergent children. Yeah.

Laura: [00:09:14] So I like to teach people about the nervous system in a way that they can understand it. So that shows how it's more of an accumulation of dysregulation that we can respond to. Right. So it's not like one seed of dysregulation. And then it comes out after you're you you behave in a certain way. And then it's like back to factory settings. Like it has an accumulation right. I talk about something called the nervous system budget, which is an analogy I created as a sort of a spin off of the spoons theory, but it's similar where it's this idea that we all start the day with a certain nervous system. Budget, and certain tasks or environments are more expensive to some people than others. And so, you know, we might start our day with $20 at the beginning of the day. And then someone who's sensory sensitive, it might take like $3 out of their nervous system just to put socks on, and then it might take another dollar just to put their jacket on over their long sleeve, because, God forbid, their long sleeve rolls up underneath a jacket.

Alyssa: [00:10:22] I hate that feeling. Never let that happen.

Laura: [00:10:25] Straight to jail. And so then they're you know they're starting their day with like a negative amount or very little left in their nervous system. And then through each environment it deducts more and more and more. And then what you have is you're coming home with a negative balance. And when you hear that you should think of or see in your head Dysregulation. When there's nothing, there's no nervous system resources left. You can't even climb out of that hole. And what I tell parents is that that balance rolls over. It's not like you start the next day with a fresh balance. Back up to 20 bucks. No, you have to nourish your nervous system to get back to a state of regulation. And what happens over the holidays is it starts honestly, as soon as as we have that trunk or treat at Halloween, then we've got then we jump straight into Christmas holiday celebration. Yes, there's a Thanksgiving or whatever holiday you celebrate. If you celebrate that. And it's just constant, like you said, routine change all of that and we're not really spending time replenishing our nervous system. So when we get to January, we've had months of routine changes, time changes, seasonal changes, house layouts, decor, saw a bunch of new people, sounds, all of that stuff, and we didn't have time to recuperate our nervous system.

Laura: [00:11:48] And so we're just starting out the new year. New year, same old nervous system that is still very much dysregulated from 2025. Right. So it's just kind of all adding up. And now you're a nervous system debt. And you have to actively try to get back to the black at least and start fresh. So what I teach parents to do is whether we're talking about managing the nervous system budget day to day or over a long span, I think of two things I think of when we proactively accommodate our children based on what we know deducts the most from their nervous system, then we can make a task quote cost less, right? So if my child is sensitive to the seams in socks, I would say you don't have to wear socks today or I'm going to turn those socks inside out. Now I've knocked it down from $3 to maybe it's like $2 so you can discount.

Alyssa: [00:12:45] Or even, like getting dressed, right? Like getting I think of my child, like getting his jacket on, getting his socks and shoes on. Yes, I will often do those tasks for him that I know he knows how to do himself, but that then it costs less. So he's spending less, which gives him more to work with 1,000%.

Alyssa: [00:13:05] However, you think you can accommodate your child in advance is going to help cost less to their nervous system. And then the other thing is, I like to Laura.

Alyssa: [00:13:14] It's like if you showed up at my house at 8 p.m. and you're like, Alyssa, you go chill. I'm gonna do the dishes and make the kids lunches and get stuff ready for tomorrow. Do I know how to do those things? Totally. Yeah, but would I marry you and have you move into my household if you did that 100%? Because you're giving me back some energy.

Laura: [00:13:33] Especially if I'm like, hey, I want to hang out and have some girl chat time, and I want to focus on what's going on. And I know you're not going to be able to focus if you're thinking of all the things you have to do. So since I'm coming over, I'll comb over a few minutes early. I'll help do that thing while you get the kids to bed. Then, when I know we're sitting down on the couch to chat, I know I've got your full attention. And we could totally relax together. Like, that's. That's what this is doing for our kids. So we're not doing.

Alyssa: [00:13:58] It any time or anytime.

Laura: [00:14:01] You're so far away. Can we make this happen? So can we somehow make this happen? Let's start a let's start a GoFundMe to to allow me to to visit you. And so the other way that we can affect the nervous system is that I think about depositing into the nervous system. So when you've already done the accommodations, how can we deposit? And that's when we think about adding in sensory strategies, right. Can we like do some heavy work. Can we do some breathing to just build back up some of that like cash flow in our nervous system. And so when we get back into school at that time, in the beginning of the new year after holiday break, that's what I want parents to remember, is that your kid is probably at like -100 balance right now, and we're expecting them to function exactly where they were before they went on this break. And that's just not really realistic, especially if we are dealing with kids who have nervous system regulation challenges, if they're neurodivergent or things like that.

Alyssa: [00:14:57] Yes. Okay. So I love this, that this is so helpful for me as a frame of we are not just waking up in the morning and you're like, oh, everything is fresh now that I slept, but instead that you still are coming in at that deficit. And we feel this in seasons of burnout and seasons of exhaustion where it's not, oh, I'm feeling so exhausted and burnt out. And then I wake up the next day and I'm like, everything feels fine now. No, I still am feeling that. And that it it takes consistency in our routines. It takes less tasks that are draining to get us back into a space of regulation. So when we take that into, okay, our kids are going to go back to school. What are some concrete ways we can prep them in the days leading up and then through those first couple weeks of, like, entering back into a school routine? What are some concrete things we could do?

Laura: [00:15:53] Yeah. So I think that the best way to approach this again, and if anyone's listening to this and they don't know me for the first time, I have a neurodivergent child and I'm neurodivergent as well. So our whole house just caters to neurodiversity. So this is our flow. This is something that we do all the time, is I always go back to lowering demands as much as possible. If you're already a house that does low demands, is there a way to lower it even more temporarily? Right. Get break that down.

Alyssa: [00:16:20] Break what lowering demands means.

Laura: [00:16:22] Yeah. So when I say lower demands, it's not. When we're thinking of demands, we want to think about the inherent demands of the environment in addition to the demands that we're requiring of our child. So demands of an environment is that when my daughter is at the breakfast table and I've got all the lights on, and I am also making her lunch, so I'm not giving her the morning connection that she needs. And I'm expecting her to wait. I'm expecting her to sit at the table and be ready for breakfast all at once. Those expectations from me of her, and the sensory demands of the environment, and the executive functioning skills of expecting her to wait and to stay in her chair while I finish up her breakfast for the last few minutes. Those are inherent demands that I think a lot of us don't think about. So can I lower those demands by maybe whatever I'm preparing for her? Can I bring it over at the kitchen table? So I'm sitting next to her and making lunch next to her. Can I remember to keep the lights off and only use a couple like windows open for natural lighting? For a lot of kids with sensory sensitivities, they need that like slow adjustment, slower start to their morning. And if you're like me, I'm a morning person. I'm up since 5:00, so I've got all the lights on. I'm moving and I'm zipping around and I forget that they're at like a different. My husband and my daughter.

Alyssa: [00:17:43] No, not so much over here. I'm like, I cannot relate to that feeling. Yeah.

Laura: [00:17:47] So lowering those demands on her nervous system, just inherently by adjusting the environment, I'm not requiring her to do anything different. I can also lower demands. Right. If, like we just talked about earlier, if you will help your child get ready. My daughter is eight and a half. She is very capable of doing her entire morning routine independently, but I know those first few weeks to a month when she's getting back to school, it's a slower start. And so I might body double for her. This is something that works for us, so I will intentionally not brush my teeth until I know she has to brush her teeth so we can brush it together. We have toothbrushes of hers in all of our bathrooms. If she wants to brush her teeth downstairs, she can brush her teeth downstairs. If she wants to brush it in my room, she can brush it in my room. And we have an upstairs and a downstairs, so we have duplicates of things to make that easier. So I'm demanding less of her to do things independently. And I'm also considering her social emotional connection, which she requires a lot of.

Laura: [00:18:47] And then we can decrease the motor demands. Like I might help her put her foot through really tight leggings. I know she can do it, but why don't I scrunch it up for you and and help you out? These are things that I'm taking that burden off of her nervous system, because I know it will benefit her for the rest of the day. I need to set her up for success because school is not going to lower the demands. Rarely. Sometimes teachers, sometimes teachers, will start off a little slow. But usually this time of the school year, they're just taking off and I have no control of that. As a parent, I have no control. So what I want to do is set her up for success on the way to school, lower those demands and then again after school very, very much back to think back to like the hardest, like after school days in the past and how I'm not expecting big conversations. I am giving her basically a second lunch that after school snack is essentially another sandwich.

Alyssa: [00:19:44] Yeah, we call it first lunch. Second lunch.

Laura: [00:19:46] Yes, it's basically that because they never eat enough. And it just kind of continues until we get back into a rhythm, and then I can slowly ease back off of certain demands and expect more of her back to her baseline. And we just kind of follow that flow.

Alyssa: [00:20:01] I love this, so I was thinking about how at the beginning of the school year, Rachel at one point was sharing in one of the breakdowns that she told her kids, hey, for the first month of school, when we come home, you can drop your bags. I'll hang them on the hooks. I will empty them out and pop your lunch boxes in the sink and clean them out. And I'll pull out your homework folders and put them at the table when we get to October. I am not going to be doing all of those things. So at the end of September, you're going to be responsible for pulling your homework folders out and putting them on. And then when we get to October, you're going to be responsible for pulling your lunches out and putting them in the sink. So essentially, at the very beginning of this school year, she was like, I will take all these task demands essentially off your plate because I know you're spent when you come home. And then as you get into more routine and more flow, here are some things that are going to come back to your plate as responsibilities. And I think for me as the adult, that timeline is helpful to think through ahead of time, not just the pre-teaching of the kid, but to remind myself, like, I'm going to do this for a month. And so that I'm not a week in. And then I'm like, oh my gosh, you're not even doing all these things and you're a disaster.

Alyssa: [00:21:14] Like, yeah, we're not doing this. I'm not doing this for you anymore. And then I'm annoyed and I'm frustrated. But to really think through for myself, like, if I imagine this is a month long where things are going to feel a little harder for them, or depending on your kid, sometimes it's two weeks where you know your kid best of that transition period is going to vary per kid. Actually, for my son, the routine of being back in school is so helpful for his regulation. And so it's often like a week for him. And my daughter's adjustment back into school has taken a little longer. And she's my neurotypical child. But for him, he's like, actually, I just want the routine and predictability once the school year is set and he knows what to expect at the beginning of the school year is a different beast. But the like, once he's in a flow, in a routine and he knows the rules of the classroom and what to expect from different teachers and in the space, that consistency for him, there's like a week of the sensory task demands of just like, all right, I have to do all these things again. And I'm in a classroom full of kids. But the stimuli of my family at my parents house is also so much we were just talking about this with, like, I have a billion people in my family that it's actually, I think, less stimulating for him to be at school than it is. I'm like envisioning.

Alyssa: [00:22:35] The Home alone, the McCallister household.

Laura: [00:22:38] Like, right?

Alyssa: [00:22:39] Like when I see that first, I'm like, there's. So I was like, they're all sleeping there. They all just. I'm like, that is a lot of people.

Laura: [00:22:47] Yeah, yeah. And he's like, sharing a room with me and my husband and his sister when we're at my parents. So it's just like it's so nutty that actually the flow and routine and consistency for him is generally a quicker transition than it is for her, where she's like, oh, I loved the hustle bustle of all the family and all the cousin attention and the big kid attention. And so the transition for her actually has been harder than it is for him. But just all that to say that it isn't a one size fits all. We know kids are not one size fits all, so our approach to them can't be either. But I find for myself I need to set my own timeline expectations of it's not going to be two days and then things are hunky dory. It's going to be a couple weeks of just almost like me the week before my period, where everything just feels harder in life and I'm just like, oh yeah, I just want to, like, lay on the couch and eat Milk Duds and watch The Office.

Laura: [00:23:46] Yes, 1,000%. I was gonna say that for some families, you're going to hear this and think that this might not be helpful. And that's that's so right. Some kids need to just cold turkey straight back into regular routine, and they'll have a few hard days and it'll actually be better for them. You know your child best. I know my child needs a slower warm up, and I think that it's fine to have plan A and plan B, I'm going to go into it and just try and see how they are. If it's really hard, I know that I can peel back and try that out for a few weeks, give a little bit more TLC as they start back to the new year. I also when I anticipate a harder morning before school, for whatever reason, I will wake my daughter up earlier. I need the runway because I know she takes longer in the morning to just first get out of bed to warm her up. Sometimes I'll even carry her or have my husband carry her to the couch and she's still bundled up. She needs that runway. If I do any ounce of like, hurry up or we're almost. If I even hint that we are running late, it is like pouring gasoline on the fire. So knowing that it's not. I used to think like, no way I'm letting her sleep. Every millisecond counts. She needs the rest, or she's going to be a nightmare. No, she's a slow and steady wake up where I can be really gentle and match her and ask her what she dreamt about. Not just like, hey, get up. What do you want for breakfast? It's ready. Come on downstairs. Five minutes, which we can do most of that now. We're at that point. But I know when it comes to January, we'll be going back to this.

Alyssa: [00:25:19] Totally. That's my daughter.

Alyssa: [00:25:20] Her up like 15 minutes longer. Yep.

Laura: [00:25:23] Yeah. And I wake her up every morning, almost before school. I don't think I've ever had to wake my son up for a single thing in his life. But my daughter, I'm like, no, he is my like. He has a Christmas tree in his room all year round because it started at one point and then it just never stopped. And it's like lights on a timer. His Christmas tree lights are on a timer. And so when the lights come on, he's allowed to get out of his bed. He knows what's available. And then when the lights go off, he has to put his clothes on and come downstairs. He likes a slow start where nobody's talking to him or touching him. And I'll even, like, deliver like a bagel or something in the room so that he can just, like, eat like a dry morning offering. Yes, exactly. It's like we call it the offering. And my daughter on weekends, like, wake her up at nine, usually on weekends. But like for school days, I will wake her up and same like I turn on the light, I turn off the sound and then I'm just. I don't talk to her. She lays in her crib for a little bit. She needs like, time. And it's like my voice has to be soft and it has to be connecting. Otherwise, she's immediately like, no, no, I'm not doing that. No. And it's just like full. We end up in a back and forth power dynamic. Then I'm like, we've got to go. And if I can adjust myself and go with connection and be gentle and soft and connecting, it's a game changer for her response.

Laura: [00:26:50] Yeah, I even in the morning to for my daughter. She basically speaks through uses her hands and she just I'll say like do you want bagels or oatmeal? And she'll like hold up number one. If it's like the first thing. Like so she's she's just she's not even really using words. Yeah. Really in the morning. But she still wants that connection and she still wants to, you know, pick what's on the menu. If I, if I had my stuff together more, I might like make a visual menu and let her literally point to what she wants because I've seen some slacker parent.

Alyssa: [00:27:19] Laura. Yeah. Everyone's always talking about. You're such a slacker.

Laura: [00:27:22] I feel so bad for her. Like I don't know what she'll be talking about in therapy one day.

Alyssa: [00:27:28] My mom never made me a visual schedule. How dare. How dare she? We had this gigantic.

Laura: [00:27:34] Screen in our living room that helped me tick off my routine, but my mom never once used a laminator or Velcro. Yeah, what a terrible mom.

Alyssa: [00:27:43] Ish. I love it when we are looking at, like, starting to prep them in terms of talking to them about we're going back to school like before we're returning. What's a general timeline we can have in mind of like when do we even start talking about that? And maybe like, how much do we say? Like, do you remember when we used to go to school? It was like two weeks ago. And here's like, how much do we give them in terms of information? What's the right amount of prep, I guess? Or do you only just wait and see like, oh, we're seeing resistance now. We're going to talk about stuff. Can you walk folks through this a little bit?

Laura: [00:28:26] Yeah, I think like everything, it's always going to depend on each child. But I can't think of a negative reason or I can't think of a reason not to have some sort of visual family calendar, like in a living room or kitchen area, even if it's really simple. When my daughter was two. Hey, I hope she's listening to this. I did do Laminations and Velcro because when you were two, I did do this, and I'm going to show you a proof one day. I did laminate a Monday through Friday calendar, and I had pictures of her dad, her grandma and the different preschool teachers because it was a different teacher on the different days and who would pick her up after school. We had a nanny at some point, so she saw visual pictures of faces of who she would see on the day, and that was all she needed at that time. But if you have a child who's in school going into kindergarten. First. Second, third. Any of that a family calendar? Even if, like, I only have one child. So we're not managing a ton of schedules. But she loves this thing to the ends of the earth. She is the one that loves to reset the whiteboard calendar every single month.

Laura: [00:29:34] Now, we've been doing it for years so she knows when school is coming back. She loves school, so it's not really a hard conversation. She counts down to school, but for kids who are not in favor of school as much, I still think having the calendar knowing what to expect is good. I also think that it's helpful when either you can. If you have a child who needs more support in the classroom and you already have this relationship with the teacher, I might ask them before break and say, do you happen to know what lessons you're doing the first week of school? So I could like write it down or like know, like, oh, remember, you know, on Monday when you get back, that's when you guys start your Appleseed lesson. And remember, we grew apples last summer. I wonder if it's going to be the same thing. So a little bit of a preview of what they're going to be working on, if not manufacturing, ways to have something to look forward to on that first week of school. That might not have to be school. I've had to do this with my husband and myself some days when we've got like busy weeks of work and I was like, oh, on Wednesday we get to try that new dessert that we found online and the stuff is coming.

Laura: [00:30:40] I can't wait till Wednesday. Just something to like, hold on to. And so it doesn't have to be. I'll give you this ice cream after school on Monday, but it's like, oh, there's a new episode of Is It Cake coming out on that day? I can't wait to watch it after school with you. Something to kind of add like a little reminder school starting next week. Can't wait to see that lesson. Or I wonder, you know what the musical is going to be. I know you guys are talking about the musical on that week. Something to kind of that you know, they will like. But in terms of the length that you tell them. I think that's going to depend. Certainly, when it comes to things like doctor's appointments and dentist visits, there's like a very there's a very small window where it's either not enough notice or way too much where they're getting anxious over it. But I think that a calendar kind of allows them to visually prepare, even just by passing it by.

Alyssa: [00:31:37] We have one when you we have upstairs downstairs and when you upstairs. All we have is bedrooms and a bathroom. And so we all like walk down the stairs to start the day. And when you walk down, the very first thing you see at like kid height on the wall is the calendar. And it's weekly and it has like an arrow that points to what today is and it'll show if it's a home or a school day, and then who's dropping you off or picking you up and that. So like right when they come down they can see and I instead of just moving the arrow, I also take off the ones we've already done so that depending on how they kind of read it. Yeah, exactly. They can come down and see. And sage, my son, will start every day. He'll be like, oh, it's a school day. Two more school days this week or whatever, just by looking at this. And for him, it's that reminder, even though Monday through Thursday, they both go to school Monday through Thursday and they have a Nana Day on Friday, and the weekends are family days and it's the same every week. But then he doesn't have to remember. Is it Wednesday? Is it Tuesday? What's today? What's happening? And it's just that as a kid.

Alyssa: [00:32:45] I would have loved that as a kid. Because if you really think about it, yeah, it's the same every week. And we think you would know by now. On Fridays you go see Nana. But just to have it down and you don't like what day is today? Yeah. Just to have it down and to, like, visually see that it's such a help. Like I said, I can't think of a reason where I'd be like, do not get a calendar. It's going to ruin your lives. I can't think of a reason for that.

Alyssa: [00:33:10] Totally. And I typically reset it on Sundays. But when it's like these, like, like right after Thanksgiving, for instance. I reset it on Saturday so he could see Saturday, Sunday, Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday. So he knew like these are home days. And then I'm gonna have school again on Monday.

Alyssa: [00:33:30] Because it had been like wonky and off so that he has a couple days of a heads up of when school's coming back. And of course we talk about it, but that from that visual perspective, I love the like that it's okay to have them have something to look forward to as well.

Alyssa: [00:33:47] Like, yeah.

Alyssa: [00:33:48] Today sage did not want to go to school and tomorrow's Mila's birthday. And in our family, you get to choose if you want a school day or a home day on your birthday. And she is having home day tomorrow and he's going to school. And he knows, like for his birthday, he wants her to go to school so he can have a solo home day. Okay. And yeah, so he today was like, I want to have a home day today. And I know it's because Miller's having a home day tomorrow, and that feels different. Whatever. And I was like, totally. That makes sense, because Miller's going to be home tomorrow. And I just remembered, though, that we made those cupcakes for Miller's birthday party at school today, and you were gonna help pass out the cupcakes and sing Happy Birthday and celebrate her birthday in her class today. And he was like, oh, that's right, I completely forgot. I gotta go to school. I don't want to miss that.

Alyssa: [00:34:39] Exactly, exactly.

Alyssa: [00:34:41] Exactly. Also, lol, like biggest lie ever, he's like, I could stay home and I know you have work, but I could just play by myself as if he's ever in his life, played by himself for seven hours. Like it's never gonna happen. Now that.

Laura: [00:34:56] I think about it, I remember like, I remember really appreciating this. Her first and second grade teachers did this. Her third has not. So I don't know if they do this earlier, but both her first and second grade teachers, whenever we were coming back from either like a one week vacation or like a bigger one. They would say, you can bring it. We could do a pajama day on the first day, or bring a levy so that they would always be like, we know it's hard to come back. So they like made it fun. And then they never wanted a a pajama and bring your levy to school day like never.

Alyssa: [00:35:25] Totally.

Alyssa: [00:35:25] So that's a great.

Alyssa: [00:35:26] Idea for all the teachers out there. Like we often think of like a party day, the last day before break, but almost like a fun thing coming back to come back.

Alyssa: [00:35:35] And it's.

Alyssa: [00:35:36] Easier for.

Laura: [00:35:36] Teachers, I would think, too. Right. So her first and second grade teachers did that, and in their emails I was like, we know it's hard to come back. So here's what. And I was like, thank you for doing this. And then I, I would.

Alyssa: [00:35:47] Read her emails on my kid. Yeah.

Laura: [00:35:50] Well, my daughter sleeps in her school clothes since kindergarten because our meltdowns were 99% solved after we switched that. So yes, we don't have to do that. But she will never miss a pajama or like movie or lovey day. And it's just like a simple thing. And I feel like it would be easier for teachers because then everyone's happier to be there.

Alyssa: [00:36:10] And, yeah, a little dopamine hit. The last thing I want to touch on is school refusal. For folks who do have kids who are like, I don't want to go back. And they are just like dreading the going back. Do you have tips, tricks, support tools? And we have a whole section in big kids. Bigger feelings for people who want to dive deeper. But if it's like, you know, your kid has a hard time coming back from the holidays with this, and you might anticipate that school refusal. Or maybe they're jazzed to go back on that first day, and then it's like Wednesday, Thursday where they're like, actually bring me back to vacation life.

Laura: [00:36:46] Yes, yes. So I think of school refusal for some kids. If if you know that this is sort of a theme for your child, whether it's at the end of a vacation or if they typically are just every time at school, like, oh, like it's really an issue, a sticking point for you. I think it's really important to to get curious and to dig deep and understand why as much as possible. And sometimes I like to tell parents to ask them the magic wand question. If you could change anything about school, if I gave you a magic wand and you could change anything about school, what would it be? And it can't be that you don't go, just like, what would you change? And a lot of the times if they're if they're responding and they're participating, it might lead you down something where it's like, oh, I just wish we didn't have to have PE or I really hate sitting next to because they're loud or or they never share this stuff or this kid keeps like it might lead you down something to help you connect with them, understand, validate, and potentially ask for accommodations if necessary. If it's something that's like, oh, well, that makes sense. For just like, you know, it's just hard to start getting back into school when my daughter, you know, is disappointed about having to do something that she doesn't want to, I have to try to remember to first take a few seconds to, like, take my own deep breath because I get triggered very quickly.

Laura: [00:38:10] As someone who also needs a lot of control and things to go just right, when something deviates from a plan, it really stresses me out. And then I just immediately start like barking. So I have to, you know, first and foremost, regulate myself and then know that she doesn't need me to necessarily convince her that it's okay to go like to, like, point out all the positives and say, but you're going to have so much fun. You always say that and then you're going to love school. She needs more of the like. I know it sucks when you have to go back to school and wake up early. Like, I remember hating that. And it's so hard because you've been home all day, like I know well, you know, this weekend, like, I might, like, change the subject or like, say I know, like, it really does suck and kind of just try to deal with it.

Alyssa: [00:38:58] As much as without problem solving.

Laura: [00:38:59] Validation. But for me, as a parent, it's I have to then know the next step. The next step is to know that what I'm telling her, that validation, that's not going to solve it. I think that's where parents misunderstand this. They're like, I try validating and it doesn't work. And I'm like, well, it is working. But no one's promising that the validation is going to make them like, wipe their tears off and smile and like, prance right into school. It's just we are validating it and they get to be upset about it, but you don't have the responsibility to fix it for them or to make them not go to school. If you, as a caregiver or parent, determine that the thing they're avoiding is non-negotiable, they have to go because for whatever reason, you don't need to negotiate with them. You need to come from a very regulated, confident part of yourself and validate that you know that they don't want to, and they're still going to have to go and it'll be over, and then you'll see them on the other side, and you have to then just deal with what's coming. I don't have a magic solution or a certain phrase or trick to get them to, like all of a sudden want to go to school, especially if we know it's to be expected. Nobody wants to go back to work or school after the after the holiday. Like nobody wants to. So it's like just, okay, just get used to that feeling and it'll soon go away and it'll move on. And feelings come and go, just like the weather. And I'll see you after school. Like that's just kind of what the.

Alyssa: [00:40:28] It's okay to not want to that allowance of it's okay to not want to. It's okay to not be jazzed about this. I feel this every time like vacation is over and I'm leaving the beach and whatever. And I'm like, oh, I don't want to go back to everyday life. I want to keep hanging out with my people on vacation. Like, that is what I want more of. And just allowing that to be true. Yes, I love that and that we're not actually trying to solve it. We're saying it's okay to not want to. And again, if school refusal is an ongoing issue, we've got more support in big kids of like diving into what's really going on. Is it from a sensory root? Is it social, emotional and helping you kind of dive into that so that we can meet those needs? But if it's truly the like transitioning back to this other thing, kind of like we think of in school, they call them non-preferred tasks where kids are like, they're like, oh, they just don't want to do the math or whatever because it's a non-preferred task. And we're like, well, actually, it's harder for them than maybe this other task or other thing is, and it's requiring more. And so let's look at how we can help them access it. And so really recognizing that, yeah, they're going to have to use their brain in different ways when they're in school than they do at home. And that feels harder sometimes. And it's also okay that that feels harder. Things don't always have to feel easy.

Laura: [00:41:56] I model that to my daughter all the time. I'm like literally, oh, I really don't want to go. Can you work for me? Like I'll play around with her and I'll even jump into playfulness. Okay, fine. You don't want to go to school. I'll go to school. You work. You've got two podcasts to record today, and you have to do a coaching call and she'll like, you know, either giggle back or. Yeah, but I think it's just good to to just know that kids have their feelings about going to school and they might not want to.

Alyssa: [00:42:21] Yeah, yeah. Oh, I love that, Laura. Thank you so much. Where can folks find you, connect with you, learn more about your work, snag your book, All That Jazz. Yes.

Laura: [00:42:31] So the best place you could find me is on Instagram at The Butterfly. And if you want to find all the links to purchase my book, a kid's book about neurodiversity. If you go to the OT butterfly book, it'll give you all the links to all the distributors, Amazon Non-amazon international links as well, and my website. The Butterfly Comm is where you can find all my blogs and my podcast episodes, which I'm planning to return to in the first few months of 2026, so 2026, so hopefully I'll have some new episodes out shortly.

Alyssa: [00:43:02] Perfect. Thank you so much for being you.

Laura: [00:43:04] Yay! Thank you for having me.

Alyssa: [00:43:06] Stay tuned after this note from our sponsors. Rach and I will be right back with the breakdown.

Rachel: [00:43:16] So I told you yesterday the teacher gifts.

Alyssa: [00:43:21] Bless. You'd think as a former teacher, I would have. This would be on my radar, so was not. I was like, wait, that's right. Teacher gifts for the holidays.

Rachel: [00:43:33] So I like organized. I made the things. I bought the coffee, gift cards. I put them in cute bags. I wrote a little note inside the bags. Cody was in charge of delivery because he was bringing the kids to school, so he mixed them up and gave them to the wrong teachers like Abel's teacher got Nora's teacher's gift and vice versa. And like as an isolated incident, It's like whatever. It's not a big deal. But compounded with the rest of the holiday magic that I have been responsible for, I was just like, you've got to be kidding me. I got a text from Abel's teacher and she was like, hey, do you want me to switch with Nora's teacher? Are they the same? And I was like, they are the same. But also like, I know that Nora's teacher is very detail oriented and, like, would probably appreciate getting the one with the note that's written for her.

Alyssa: [00:44:26] And my husband's an idiot.

Rachel: [00:44:29] I literally was like, this is what I.

Alyssa: [00:44:30] Get.

Rachel: [00:44:31] For. I did say, I said, this is what I get for putting Cody in charge of delivery, because I'm also friends with her, so I feel like I can throw a little shade at Cody without it being, like, wildly disrespectful and inappropriate.

Alyssa: [00:44:41] Yeah.

Rachel: [00:44:42] But yeah, it was just like. So I went out after I did bedtime with Abel, I went out to the kitchen. I'm like, Cody, you gave Camille's gift to Marcy and vice versa. He's like, oh, shoot. Yeah. I looked on the bag. I didn't see a tag. I'm like, yeah, there was a note inside that you could clearly see that, said Miss Moore and Mrs. Brace. So and I just couldn't really like, deal with him trying to be like, yeah, I looked for one and couldn't see one. I was just like, this is incredibly irritating to me. And then that was the end of the conversation. This time of year, I'm just feeling like there's not much more I can add to my to do list. Before I lose my ever loving mind.

Alyssa: [00:45:30] Yes, yes, yeah. And our kids are young enough now at my household that they're not in, like, after school activities. They don't have like a holiday concert at their school. Their school has kids who are from all different backgrounds and religions. And so we don't have any of those additional things happening after school. And we were just talking about how this month has felt, so. Like like you're moving through it rather than enjoying it, which I there's been I hate it and there's been enjoyable stuff like we did the Polar Express. We had Mila's birthday, which was fun, but it was like all the prep getting ready for my last birthday and making sure we had all the stuff and making the cupcakes for her class and to bring in the next day. And then she had a home day, and making her cake and getting all the presents wrapped and making sure there's a dinner plan for everyone coming over. And then. Da da da da da da da.

Rachel: [00:46:37] All the details.

Alyssa: [00:46:38] All the details. Yeah. And I heard this thing recently that Barack once followed Michelle Obama around for a full day and just wrote down everything she did and. It like gave him a fresh, fresh mindset on all that she was doing that just went unnoticed. Because it does.

Rachel: [00:47:07] It goes unnoticed until it's not done. And then someone's like, oh, that got dropped like that ball got dropped. Shoot. Yeah. Like, man, I feel like it would be helpful for Cody to do that.

Alyssa: [00:47:20] Exercise a day, but it would drive you nuts.

Rachel: [00:47:23] Totally. Even today. Like, he's working from home and I was then he was going to go out and do something and I'm like, could you go ahead and like, head out? Because I need to focus on stuff and you're distracting me? Also, I'm pmsing, so I'm like, if I can hear you breathing, it's making me angry. But yeah, just that's what it is, is so much of the work that the default parent or the primary caregiver does is unseen, particularly during this time where like, yeah, it's not even on Cody's radar to think about teacher gifts. He was not reading the emails with the dress code and call times for the Christmas concert. He did not choose Nora's birthday theme and execute it. And I could go on and on and on and on and on. Right? And so then when he can't get the teacher gift to the correct person, I'm just like, I don't have a lot of grace and low on compassion right now.

Alyssa: [00:48:16] I feel that actually I. Yesterday. So Zach's been very stressed. He's two big work projects like very early in the new year. And that's a lot of, like, work right now. And then he knows a bunch of people are going to be off, and he needs other people to give him information in order to do his job.

Alyssa: [00:48:40] So it's just. Yeah, it's busy right now for him. And he has shared that. And I was like, okay, I actually have a slower time right now. Like, I can do these other things. A I want to feel seen in them. I don't mind doing more when he has more on his plate. I do want a like, thanks so much for doing that. Or Miller's home sick from school today. And it was not a question who was going to be off work today. I cleared my calendar yesterday to be off with her, and then he came home and he was talking to me last night and he was like, oh, I popped over to target to grab something and I just like, browsed and got the kids some like, just like fun stocking stuff. And I felt immediately annoyed for two reasons. One, you're so busy at work that I'm picking up this extra slack and you popped out of work to pop over to target and back, probably about an hour total in time if you got an extra hour. I got some things you can do in that hour. Also, maybe a hey, lis, I'm popping over to target. Is there anything else we need so that if I did have something and then I have planned all their Christmas stuff, including their stockings. And so I was like, what? What did you get? And he started to share and I'm like, okay, okay, okay. And he was like, oh, I just thought it would be like they were just like fun things. And I was like, yeah, I already have a plan for their stockings.

Alyssa: [00:50:22] And I just was so annoyed because I'm like, communicate, just communicate. Yeah. And start with thank you.

Rachel: [00:50:30] Also like if you have an extra hour, could you just cut that at the because you cut your day short and just come home an hour early.

Alyssa: [00:50:37] Or like he worked last night after I asked him to pick the kids up. Yesterday when we got the call that Mila was sick, I was like, can you go pick them up? And I will take tomorrow off. And he was like, yeah, I'm just gonna have to work at night. So I'm like, okay. And you also swung through target?

Rachel: [00:50:56] Yeah, those two stories don't match. Whoops.

Alyssa: [00:51:01] I was like, make it make sense. I do think in hetero relationships, like females, moms have to have really high executive functioning in time management skills because there's so much more on our plates.

Rachel: [00:51:22] 100%. And we perpetuate this, I think, as women. And I'm not throwing shade at anybody. But whenever let's say something needs to be brought into school or school needs support with something, they almost never ask Cody. They only ask Cody if it's related to his profession, like giving a presentation or something. Not like, hey, can you bring in six gluten free sugar cookies on Friday.

Alyssa: [00:51:50] Yeah, totally. 100%. Yeah. I mean, I got the phone call yesterday when she was sick, and I'm the one in our relationship that has a job where my phone is actually more likely to not be on me. He's sitting at a computer all day. He's way more accessible than I am right now. When I'm podcasting, there's not a way that somebody can reach me. My phone is not do not disturb.

Alyssa: [00:52:17] Yep. If I'm presenting, there's a lot in my job where my phone is not on me but we call them there's actually data around this. Somebody studied it and it was like 95% of the time in a hetero family. The mom is called totally unless otherwise denoted, like call this other person. Actually, I, I had this family in childcare. I took care of their kiddos and they would at the beginning of the week. Share with us basically a schedule of like, here's the person that's on call any given day this week. Like they would sit down and have a family meeting on Sunday and go through like, what's your schedule look like this week? And then they would share with us and we just had it right there. You just knew available in our app. Yep. If it's Monday here's the parent to call if it's. And it was a two mom household. God so much more efficiently run.

Rachel: [00:53:21] Yeah, that makes a lot of sense. Yeah. Yep. Sure does.

Alyssa: [00:53:29] Oh, who do we get to chat about today?

Rachel: [00:53:33] Okay, this is Laura.

Alyssa: [00:53:35] The OT butterfly.

Rachel: [00:53:36] Yes.

Alyssa: [00:53:37] Yes. I love Laura. She's become a friend, which is delightful. We have had, like, an Instagram relationship for a while, but then shifted into a phone relationship, which has been nice.

Rachel: [00:53:50] Wow. Just getting really intimate. I found this. I mean, I do really feel that way. Like having a phone.

Alyssa: [00:53:57] It does feel more intimate.

Rachel: [00:53:59] Yeah. I thought that this episode was really insightful, and one thing that I liked that she pointed out was that, like, you don't just get a, like, reset or restart because your kids slept like that can still carry over because I think sometimes in my mind I'm like, all right, new day, fresh nervous system. We're off to the races. And that isn't always the case.

Alyssa: [00:54:27] No. They're like, yeah, I'm working at such a deficit and we're still out of routine or we're just barely back in routine. And yeah, I think about that when I think about seasons where I have been like out of a flow or out of a routine for a while. And I like even book tours where like when I came home, it wasn't like, okay, now I'm home and I know I'm going to be home for a chunk of time. And so everything all of a sudden feels regulating. It was like, no, there's like a comedown period from the dysregulation that just occurred of like being on the go and then home and then whatever, all the things. Wondering where the pump is in my bag. And did I bring it? And do I have to DoorDash a new hand pump? And that there's like a comedown period afterward for all of that? I really appreciated that because it does feel like, oh, there's just going to be a like, we're all going to sleep and start anew and it's a new day.

Rachel: [00:55:39] Yeah, this this gives me more compassion for Abel right now. We're in a little bit of a rough go at the moment, which, like, obviously it's holidays. It's Nora's basketball games. It's my nephew's basketball games. It's a billion things. So their Christmas concert was Saturday, and so we had in the morning gone to church and then in the afternoon had Nora's birthday party. And then in the night it was.

Alyssa: [00:56:08] Go to church on Saturday.

Alyssa: [00:56:11] Oh, okay. Fun fact I didn't know about you.

Rachel: [00:56:13] It's Cody's, it's his religious stuff. Which I did, I did actually convert. But anyway, so after 14 years of saying I never would, I did this summer. Okay, so we get home from the concert and he is crying. He was crying in the car. He's crying now and he's saying that he's starving. So I'm like, okay, cool. I'm gonna offer you food that I know you like, which I do. And he is laying face down on the carpet next to the food offering. And I'm like, buddy it's really late. So if you're going to eat like you should eat and then we can head to bed. And he's just crying, not responding literally face down. I'm like, how can you breathe and cry with the rug in your face? At one point he just rolls over and he's like, I can't eat, I can't do anything. So I get him into bed. He cries through teeth, obviously. And I have to, like, spoon him and hold him tight until he falls asleep and he's crying for about another 20 to 30 minutes until he falls asleep. So that happens. And then a few days later, we are having another busy night because we are delivering gifts and groceries to a family, and the timing that worked for them was like 5 p.m.

Rachel: [00:57:34] and it was like a 45 minute drive. Unfortunately, Cody decided to take them ice skating earlier in that day. So Abel went ice skating. And then we were doing this thing at dinner time. So we do it. He kind of gets through it, but he cries a lot in the car. And then we're in this group and we're in this shared vehicle and we decide like, we got to stop for dinner. So we're in a restaurant and it's a pizza place and Abel won't eat pizza, but I'm like, if I get him a plain crust with, like, butter or oil on it, I think he'll eat it. So I'm like, coaching him through this because he's like, I don't like pizza. I'm like, I know I'm gonna order something that you like. I'm gonna help you through this. Unfortunately, the order was not completed properly and he was served a pizza. He just lost it. He just put his head down on the table and was like, I can't be around this. I can't look at pizza. I can't smell pizza. Now we're in a shared vehicle, so I can't just pets.

Alyssa: [00:58:29] Heads are falling off.

Rachel: [00:58:30] Right? Exactly. It's just like what is happening. And by the way, this other family that we're with, that we're friends with their one year old and their four year old are just living their best lives right now and being so appropriate and.

Alyssa: [00:58:46] Flexible and.

Rachel: [00:58:47] Flexible and just convenient. And my six year old is just face down on the table. I'm like, he has some sensory sensitivities. If he had had a snack closer to this mealtime, he would have been able to be like, okay, it's not what I expected, but I'm more able to work through it. It was like we were just beyond. And so I was like, you know, we need an environment change. I'm going to take him out to the car. Box up my pizza. I'll eat on the ride home. And so Abel and I went out into the car and listened to a story, but there was a part of me that felt really angry and was like the age bias was coming up for me. I felt annoyed by his nervous system, and listening to this episode kind of reframed it for me of like, yeah, it's not a fresh start every day. And we're working with a cumulative build up for the entire month of December. And honestly, even starting before that. And so, yeah, my son, who's sensory sensitive, is probably not going to be able to do something close to bedtime after a full day and also sit at a loud, bright table and get served a meal that he wasn't expecting and won't eat and be regulated. That's not gonna. He can't. And so that was helpful for me because I was like, pissed. I didn't want to do it. It felt inconvenient and embarrassing.

Alyssa: [01:00:11] That's it. It's like, can you can it just be convenient for a minute? Can we just we go out to dinner? You're going to eat the food. You're not going to lose your shit like that for me. Comes up where I'm like, can it just be convenient? And I can get into kid comparison here in my brain where I'm like, oh my gosh, my other child can eat whatever comes their way and is fine to sit in this space and okay, I feel like it's important that I share this. I the other day on the way to school, they're like just bothering each other. Mostly he is instigating. He is reaching his hand across. We have a minivan so there's two bucket seats. Their car seats are in the buckets. She's rear facing. He's forward facing. He's reaching his hand across and like putting it toward her space. He can't reach all the way over to her yet because his arms not long enough. But she's just enough.

Rachel: [01:01:10] To bother her.

Alyssa: [01:01:11] Yes. And she's saying, no, I don't like that. Stop it. I don't like that. And I said, buddy, she's telling you in a kind way right now that she doesn't like it. If you do not listen to her, she's going to try other ways to tell you she doesn't like it. If telling you with her kind words is not working, she's going to try other ways, and he's got his hand over there and he's still doing it. And he's like. Then she starts kicking his hand and he's like, she's kicking me. Make her stop kicking me. At which point I said, you're the problem here. You are the problem here.

Rachel: [01:01:48] Move your hand.

Alyssa: [01:01:49] Crying. But maybe you are. The problem isn't the message I'm going for in life. But these are real moments, folks. And that's why I feel like it's important to share it. These words come out of our mouths, too. And he immediately started crying. And he was like, you're going to jail. You can never be around me again. You're going to jail. Which is him saying you hurt my feelings. And I was like, yeah, okay. And I had to calm myself and regulate. And we were almost at school at that point. And then I'm like, also, Lissa, you just made everything for yourself harder. Like getting out of the car is going to be harder, he's not going to want to carry his stuff in. I now have to prepare.

Rachel: [01:02:37] I know, and I hate that when you know you're about to separate and you've just, like, made a rupture. I hate that I have a timeline.

Alyssa: [01:02:44] Like, I knew I had to get back for a meeting, and so I was planning a swift drop off that then turned into not a swift drop off because we're navigating repair. And I'm like, Alyssa, you did this to yourself.

Rachel: [01:02:58] Yeah, yeah. Actually, Alyssa, you're the problem.

Alyssa: [01:03:01] You're the problem, Alyssa. And then I told him in a hug, I was like, what I said was not kind. You are not a problem. And you are not the problem in the world or in this situation. And he said, it really hurt me. And I was like, I know that makes sense, but I'm so sorry. It was really frustrating when she was saying she didn't like it and you weren't listening to her. And this is where he gets into a freeze state. And so when she's yelling no and I don't like it, he freezes. And if I can physically move his hand over, then it's fine. I like can break that for him, but I can't when I'm driving. Nervous systems are annoying sometimes.

Rachel: [01:03:50] 100%, especially in the car.

Alyssa: [01:03:52] He's like, you're going to jail. And I'm like, I'm already there.

Rachel: [01:03:54] Yeah. You're like, it can't get any worse. One thing that, like, came up for me in that moment is like, I have never sought a diagnosis for actually either one of my kids, and they both probably could be. There was part of me that just wanted to be like, he has sensory processing disorder just so that it would be received as something valid, instead of me being like, he's sensory sensitive and I think what they're thinking is like, so you coddle him?

Alyssa: [01:04:22] Yeah. Oh, 100%.

Rachel: [01:04:23] I wanted to be able to say, like, I wanted to say something in one quick sentence that would validate who he is.

Alyssa: [01:04:31] Yeah.

Alyssa: [01:04:32] I have found that with sage that now that he has an autism diagnosis, other people's perceptions of his behavior have shifted. People have more compassion and more empathy, and it's annoying to me because it's like our perception of him and the way that we've treated him has not shifted at all. And we've always just supported the nervous system that he has and gotten to known that, gotten to know that at the beginning and then just shown up in the way that his nervous system needs and or at least tried to. And sometimes we tell him he's the problem and yell at him in the car, but try to. And other people, though now aren't just like, oh, it's gentle parenting or it's whatever. Like the thing that they have assigned that this behavior is showing up in this way because. And now they're like, oh no, this is happening because he's overwhelmed, because he's autistic. And it's like, yeah, he was overwhelmed before too. You just needed a label to see him differently. And that's bullshit.

Rachel: [01:05:41] It is bullshit. And that's part of why I haven't sought out diagnoses. But then in the moment, I. I just want him to be seen for who he is and not like, I don't know. Yeah. I just want people to see him for who he is and understand that, like, he's not choosing to be difficult.

Alyssa: [01:05:59] Yeah, totally. We have put him in a situation that was not ideal for his nervous system. And I once heard Bill gates in an interview, I think I've shared this before, but somebody was asking him about like, what were some key things that he thought helped get him to where he was. And he gave a nod to his parents, and he was like, we had the financial privilege to choose schools. And he was like, I got to be in a small class size in a school. That allowed me to learn in the way that my brain learns best. And I think about that of like, yeah, when a kid is in an environment that works for them or anyone an adult, a human is in an environment that works best for their nervous system. They can thrive. And our world and our structure and our school systems are not built for all nervous systems. And then we try to put kids into these spaces or adults. Right. Like I was just chatting with a friend about this whose husband is sensory sensitive. And she's like, yeah, we're going to the family holiday party, and then we're going to the Polar Express and we're doing all these things. And her husband's fried at the end of the day, and she's like, but we're gonna do it and we're going to do all these and it's like, yeah, and he's going to be fried at the end of the day. Like that's also going to be true. And so when we have kids, we're what we're doing is draining their nervous system. We also then have to accept there's gonna be consequences for us for that, that they're going to hit a space where they can't even look at the pizza, or they don't want to talk to you after the kids are down because they cannot hear another word after the kids are down, or they can't talk logistics or they can't show up in certain ways. And really seeing the can't versus won't.

Rachel: [01:08:08] Yeah, I think that's what comes up for me is like there's no amount of dominating, able or demanding obedience that would change that in the moment. He truly cannot behave differently.

Alyssa: [01:08:22] Yeah, yeah 100%. I love Laura. I hope folks go over and follow her. She has a kids book about neurodiversity, and has an Instagram and business that's really helpful in understanding different nervous systems and how they show up in the world. Head over to OT butterfly and give her a follow.

Alyssa: [01:08:48] Thanks for tuning in to Voices Of Your Village. Check out the transcript at Voices Of Your Village. Com. Did you know that we have a special community over on Instagram hanging out every day with more free content? Come join us at Seed and Sew. Take a screenshot of you tuning in. Share it on the gram and tag. To let me know your key takeaway. If you're digging this podcast, make sure to subscribe so you don't miss an episode. We love collaborating with you to raise emotionally intelligent humans.