Want to Raise Grateful, Curious Kids? Here's Where to Start-- with Deborah Farmer Kris

Disclaimer: This transcript was generated with the help of AI and may contain minor errors or inconsistencies. Please refer to the audio for the most accurate representation of the conversation.

[00:00:00] Alyssa: You're listening to Voices of Your Village, and today I get to hang out with Deborah Farmer Kris, who is a child development expert and the author of Raising Awe-Seekers: How the Science of Wonder Helps Our Kids Thrive, the I See You board book series, and the All The Time picture book series. Her bylines include CNN, PBS Kids, NPR's Mind Shift, the Washington Post, the Boston Globe magazine, and Oprah Daily.

[00:00:29] She's currently an expert advisor for the PBS kids show Carl the Collector and spent 20 plus years as a K to 12 educator. Mostly she loves sharing nuggets of practical wisdom that can make the parenting journey a little easier. I loved hanging out with Deborah and it's such a rich conversation because A is something that I don't think we talk enough about.

[00:00:56] The power of awe for us is huge for our mental health, and we can do so many things in the every day to find awe and to raise tiny humans and then bigger humans who are awe seekers. All right, folks. Let's dive in.

[00:01:20] Hey there. I'm Alyssa Blask Campbell. I'm a mom with a master's degree in early childhood education and co-creator of the Collaborative Emotion Processing Method. I'm here to walk alongside you through the messy, vulnerable parts of being humans, raising other humans with deep thoughts and actionable tips.

[00:01:37] Let's dive in together.

[00:01:42] How old are your kids?

[00:01:43] Deborah: So 11 and 13, almost 14. Rad. So one just leaving middle school, one's joining and I love, yeah, I love the stage. So, 

[00:01:51] Alyssa: so fun. Rad. We, I have a book publishing in the Fall. Big Kids, bigger Feelings. That's the like five to 12-year-old range. Great. Um, yeah. Yeah. So I've been digging into a lot of that age range as of late nine to 12.

[00:02:05] Special time. So fun. Well, like we, I published Tiny Humans, big Emotions in 2023. And after that we just kept hearing from people who were like, okay, but why is my 9-year-old a teenager? Like, what is happening? And we're like, oh yeah, no. Just being a 9-year-old, but also we can 

[00:02:25] Deborah: help you. It's so funny. I taught fourth grade for a lot.

[00:02:27] My, the two grades I've taught most, uh, I've taught almost everything K 12, but I fourth and seventh, I did several repeated stints, which are like typically two of the years that are the least popular to teach. Sure. And I loved them, but it's for those exact reasons, it's like nine who feelings and you know, same thing, 12, 13, who, so it's like you have to, yeah.

[00:02:51] It's having a sense of kind of that emotional needs of that age. Otherwise it's, it's gonna drive you crazy. But I love it. 

[00:02:57] Alyssa: It's so real, right? Like the expectations piece is so huge of, I, I, I think we're sold this kind of myth of the early years are so physical and exhausting in so many ways. And then the teenage years are emotionally exhausting in so many ways.

[00:03:17] But almost that there's this like. Middle period between those where it's chill and it's like, no, 

[00:03:24] Deborah: nine to 13 baby, nine to 13. I actually think e teenagers are, can be, not always, but can be a peace gate can because at least they have, you know, there's like part of the rest of the prefrontal cortex is catching up to this explosive, you know?

[00:03:39] Alyssa: Totally, totally. Yeah. Actually, I, I love Lisa. Tomorrow's work in, I love her. She's amazing. She's a dream boat and I love the way that she speaks about teens with such respect. 

[00:03:55] Rachel: Mm-hmm. 

[00:03:56] Alyssa: And. That's our hope here in this space too, is just to really help the adults know Yeah. What to expect. We did a post recently that that went viral.

[00:04:07] That was like, here are things that are developmentally appropriate at age 10. Yeah. And everyone was like, oh my God, thank you. Yeah. Because like my 10 year old's doing this are like, okay, I'm not failing if they're doing this. And we're like, no, this is just a 

[00:04:20] Deborah: part of being 10. It's true. One of, I think my best attended workshops, I do a lot of online virtual for a group in California, and it was understanding the tween age brain.

[00:04:30] Right. Because I think we have so much on the teenage brain, but it was like, let's talk about nine to 12. Right? Let's, 

[00:04:35] Alyssa: yes. Yeah. It's so helpful. I think so, so helpful. Uh, well, I'm super stoked to get to dive into your new book here. Yes. Yeah. I was just chatting with my husband yesterday, actually thinking about this as I was kind of getting into prep mode for today.

[00:04:54] We're talking about like. A in general. I, it, it's so interesting. I'm a human who's like, um, triggered by like the word spiritual really gets me. I don't totally know why yet. A lot of therapy around it. I haven't gotten to the bottom of it. Uh, I grew up in a really religious community. Yeah. But the word spiritual for me feels like, like we're talking about what the planets are doing and whatever, and it just, I can't connect with it.

[00:05:28] Yeah. And he was like, awe and spiritual for me are really connected. And I was like, that is nuts to me. Because for me, they're so not even close to each other. Like, awe feels really cozy. I'm like, yes, this is like, I can be in awe of something or experience awe. And so I'm curious just as like maybe a sidebar on this.

[00:05:52] How that sits for you and like what maybe the relationship between kind of spirituality and awe might be? That is 

[00:06:01] Deborah: such a cool question. So somebody recently did a review online who has recently left a very high end high demand religion and said in basically in her piece that one thing she loved about the book raising awe seekers is she's been worried about a framework for spirituality for her kids.

[00:06:23] Right? That doesn't involve church per se, but that involves some of what she did love, which is that sense of mystery and something bigger than yourself. Yes. And I think that something that a lot of religions have in common. Is again, this almost sense of we are part of something bigger and that thing that is bigger is, can be quite mysterious, right?

[00:06:47] I mean, I think that the certainty within religion is actually a rather newer thing than if you go back and, you know, look at religious traditions, which are very much about the mystery, the things we don't know. And that's inherent in the definition of awe, which can be, you know, this, um, experiencing something that is vast and vast can be small.

[00:07:08] It's 

[00:07:08] Rachel: kinda 

[00:07:09] Deborah: intuitive, but right. Like, and that is beyond our ordinary frame of reference, which is why, like for little kids, awe is everywhere because they're encountering this world for the first time. So the very first time they see a chick hatch out of an egg that defies their understanding. That's something that's brand new.

[00:07:26] And so for me, I think that, I think that if you are somebody who is religious or spiritual, awe is, can be a really great way to. Find it in almost the sensory world. And I think if that is not something that's on your path with raising kids, I think it also provides that sense of respect for the mystery and beauties and wonders of this world that again, we may not fully understand.

[00:07:54] And I actually think it's really beautiful, um, that there is so much out there. I think certainty is actually a great hubris that humans have. I think when we are convinced that we know the right way, whether that's, you know, political or religious or you know, a parent said the dishwasher, this is the way to parent this.

[00:08:13] I'm the parent because I said so. Yeah, it trickles down into our parenting. I think that openness to even the child in front of me is a mystery, right? My daughter is not my mini me. She may have my color of hair, but like her thoughts are her own and I can never get inside my kids' heads. Like trying to figure them out is.

[00:08:33] A tremendous, wondrous, awe-inspiring mystery to me. 'cause there are times where suddenly they are sparked by something and I'm shocked. Yeah. I like did not expect that this would be part of their path. Sure. And I think one of the gifts I give to my kids is hopefully it's, I'm trying to do, is to be able to say like, I am, I am here to support and guide, but your life is yours and it's wondrous and I can't wait to see what you do with it.

[00:08:59] And for me, also that parent kind of, kind of dignity is kind of deep into spirituality for me. 

[00:09:04] Alyssa: Yeah. Okay. That, that is helpful for me. I can wrap my head around this. When we, we were chatting yesterday, like I have two kids. I have a 4-year-old and an 18 month old. And my 4-year-old is, would, is classified as like sensory sensitive.

[00:09:21] Right. So he. Is what we call a details human, where he notices all the details, sounds hot, the texture of clothes and food. And he knows if something moves in the environment, like he notices the details around him, uh, and is so attuned to them. And my daughter is, uh, what we would consider like a neutral sensory seeker.

[00:09:44] And she's sensory seeking. She misses a lot of those details where she will like, doesn't care if we rearrange the toys, she won't really pick up on it necessarily. We, when Sji was little, we would swap, you know, the books that are like rotated in the downstairs. We have like a library upstairs. We'll swap books in the baskets downstairs.

[00:10:05] And he would, from a very young age, always notice and go over and he would say, new book and he'd pick it up, wanna read it? I think we could for the rest of her life, swap the books downstairs and she's not gonna pick up on it. And what's interesting in this like note between them is that he also will like pause.

[00:10:27] I, I feel like he experiences more awe in life because he notices so many details. He'll pause and be like, wow, look what the clouds are doing right now. Or Mama, did you see that sunset? Like he just will pause and, and experience it 'cause he notices things that she misses. And so I'm curious how this shows up in individual kids or hum.

[00:10:50] Deborah: Oh yeah. You know, so I'm, you could be describing my kids temperamentally. Um, but gender's reversed. So my oldest, uh, is very much temperamentally an introvert and I've known that, um, since about six months when you know. Notice being startled by anything and every, and one of her very first sentences was Daun Sound, which was, what's that sound?

[00:11:15] Because she wanted to know like, what was, what, what, what am I hearing? And then I definitely have a sensory seeking younger child, and so I end up doing a ton of research on kind of biological temperaments. Um, and I have a piece in the Washington Post a while back, like a Tale of two temperaments and kind of like, and I, I do think that one of the strengths.

[00:11:36] Of an introverted temperament or that could be also be the sensory seeking. I think also many of our neurodivergent kids, um, I do a lot of work on that with PBS kids, um, because I work on Carl the collector, which features two autistic leads, is the sense of being really noticing and really being very attuned to their environment, which can be overwhelming.

[00:11:59] But part of that then is for adults is to be mindful like of the sonic environment our kids are in. And, um, me more about that. I talk about that in my section on, on music and on like how do we make the wonder of music more accessible to kids who are sound sensitive? Because actually I think I feature the most neurodivergent kiddos in that section because music can be such an incredible outlet and source of, of joy and wonder, and yet.

[00:12:26] It also can be such an overwhelming environment too. And so I, I find that, you know, when you look at the different sources of awe, I see my kids more naturally tapping into some than others. Mm-hmm. Which I think is true for adults too. Yeah. Which is why I really like this framework of thinking about all these elicit of awe.

[00:12:44] So where, um, where my oldest would love to be an artist when she is older and is well on her way, you know, the art and the music are something that. It's very much like she's tuned into for my son, the chapter on kind of like the big ideas and this collective effervescence of being part of a team.

[00:13:05] That's something that I just see him light, light up when he, you know, is with a group playing manhunt or d and d and seeing this, or he suddenly discovers this idea of de-extinction with the dire wolf. He just wants to look up everything and know everything. And I just see almost like Susan Ka, he wrote the book, quiet, said kind of her ideal world is where the extroverted, introverted child or kind of walking hand in hand, pulling each other toward, you know, their ways of seeing.

[00:13:34] And I, I really think with, with awe and wonder, I feel like that's really true, that they can actually, my kids can pull each other towards ways of being, you know, especially when they were younger. My youngest could actually sometimes pull. His sister into a, into some social situations and she could pull him back into kinda noticing and slowing down and getting a little bit quieter.

[00:13:56] And um, and that's kind of a cool thing too, as a parent. 

[00:13:59] Alyssa: That is so cool. Debra. I dig this so much. This is so helpful for my brain. I am very similar to my daughter and my husband. It's on are very similar and they're sensory sensitive humans and they're just super detail oriented. They pick up especially visual stimuli.

[00:14:14] And we, even yesterday when we were chatting, he's like, we were sitting in a beautiful spot in Vermont or on a lake, the mountains are there. And he was like, gosh, this is gorgeous. And I'm like, I know that it is, but that is not where I experience Awe. Yeah. Where I'm like, whoa. Like I am an extrovert for the most part.

[00:14:35] Uh, not, you know, the farthest on that spectrum, but quite extroverted. I was saying yesterday, we were talking about this, I was like, the last time I remember feeling awe that I can pinpoint was. At this incredible spreadsheet that someone on my team had broken down and like created and I was like, oh my gosh, all the things it can do and all the intricacies of it.

[00:14:55] I was like, this is amazing. Like yeah. It was that like I feel like I find awe in a lot of stem in a way that mm-hmm. He often finds awe in like creative 

[00:15:08] Deborah: arts. Yes. And I, what I love about the research on awe that, and so much of this comes outta the greater good science center and researchers like Dr.

[00:15:17] Keltner who wrote kind of the seminal book on this is that we know these outcomes are great, but there's not one way to access it. And so one of the ways they discovered kinda these elicits of eyes. Tremendous quantitative research where they went out and interviewed people, cross-culturally different countries, thousands upon thousands, and coded them to basically say, so tell me a time you felt awe, so you would've told your story about the spreadsheet.

[00:15:41] And then these poor graduate students, I'm guessing, probably had to code all of these, right? To like, you know, how many of these involved nature, how many involved o other people, how many involved groups, what involved music? And basically they, you know, the ones that percolated to the top were, you know, art, music, um, big ideas.

[00:16:01] And a lot of the stem falls within that, right? It like, that's just like, wow, I want to know. Um mm-hmm. Being in community experiences with life and death and kind of moral goodness, kind of the kindness. And, and again, it's like. I, I think just like we have temperaments and we have interests and we have passions and our kids have different, I really feel like just from watching other people and seeing how they respond to this work that I've been working the last three years, there are some natural entry points for some people where they say, yes, the creative arts.

[00:16:29] Like for me, you know, like I, now that my, uh, oldest, like I finally have someone to go to to musicals with me 'cause my husband doesn't like going to musicals and like, we go to shows all the time and boy, I get goosebumps, right? I will watch a beautiful musical and I'll think about it for days and I wanna relive it with the music.

[00:16:46] And you know, like there are people who hate musicals like that does not do it for them. Yeah, totally. And that's okay, right? Like that's, I think what it is, is recognizing what awe is that feeling. And then that's why I call it like awe seekers because it's like, if we know this is good for us and we know that this taps into this meaning and beauty, so where do we find it?

[00:17:07] And if we are not finding it, like can we be. Opening ourselves up, putting ourselves almost like in the pathway of it. So it might hit us a little more often. 

[00:17:20] Alyssa: Yeah. I feel like prior to like maybe the last two years, my idea of like awe was really like in the arts or in nature, and it was just things that I was like, that's not for me.

[00:17:40] Yeah. I was not finding myself in it. Mm-hmm. And as more has come out, or maybe I've just been exposed to more, I'm like, oh no, there are pathways inward, which is so rad. Not just for me, but for my daughter, for the humans like us in the world where it's not, even when we talk about like creativity and things like that, that it's, yeah.

[00:18:03] There's not just one path to creativity. There's not just one path to being an awe seeker and. I I want to break down if you could for us, for anyone listening, why, why would one want to be an awe seeker? What are those benefits? Why does it matter? 

[00:18:24] Deborah: So I'm gonna go back to speaking your language, which is emotional intelligence because.

[00:18:30] As you know, like feelings have functions. We have them for a purpose, so there's no bad feeling out there. Disgust means we're not gonna eat like the, the chicken that's moldy in the fridge and loneliness can remind us of the need to connect. And anger can be a sign that something, the way we see the world as being violated in some way.

[00:18:51] So all of these feelings or functions, and from the kind of evolutionary psychologist perspective, like there's that question of, so why this feeling? Right? Why did we evolve to have this feeling? And so that's one of the questions our researchers ask themselves. And so when they're looking at kind of the correlated benefits of awe, they include feeling more connected to your community.

[00:19:13] Right. They include, uh, mental and emotional wellness. So there's tons of studies that I, I, I love them all so much that, that really just basically say that this feeling, even in small doses, improves your sense of wellness. Um, it reduces biomarkers of inflammation and stress, cortisol levels. So, you know, three year olds taking your.

[00:19:36] Saliva swabs before and after arts classes. It's a reduction of stress when they get to go and engage in, in arts classes, uh, combat veterans who go and spend time in nature, same thing. Older adults who go on awe walks once a week for six weeks, six months later, their sense of wellness. So you got this kind of emotional, mental wellness piece for kids.

[00:19:57] You also have this cognitive benefit because a is a gateway to curiosity. And so, you know, when you're like, you and your eyes get wide. And for, for little kids, for older ones, we have, we often talk about kind of getting teary, getting goosebumps or just like that. Wow. But for little ones, it's the eyes growing wide.

[00:20:15] Like for me, that's always my sign that my kids are feeling this. Uh, it's almost like they want to be able to see it better. When you have that, you want to know, you wanna ask those why questions. And those why questions are authentic motivation, right? And I know this for all my years in the classroom, that if I could get my kids in the classroom, even before I could name on Wonder, if I could get them like just sparked with curiosity, they would learn better.

[00:20:39] They would remember things more clearly. And so, you know, so you have those academic benefits and then you just also have this, um, one of my favorite outcomes of awe is this sense of back to spirituality, this sense of small self. If you know, you're having just a really, really rough week, and then perhaps you go and, you know, hear a piece of music or look up at the stars or you know, hear a story about somebody or go to a Red Sox game and everybody's sharing.

[00:21:09] Suddenly the perspective has shifted. You can zoom out a little bit and remember like, oh, like this world is bigger than me and it's bigger than my problems. And that for our kids, and this is where I really go to our like nine to 18 year olds who can just zoom in. Everything is, you know, everyone's looking at me, everybody's thinking about me, everybody's noticing the pimple on my forehead.

[00:21:28] Like anything that helps us zoom out and just take a deep breath and remember, okay, like the world is bigger like this. This is tough. A doesn't fix that, but it does remind us that it's bigger than us and that there is beauty to be found even among the difficult pieces. So I just think if you think about the outcomes you want for kids, like you want them to be kind, you want them to be emotionally healthy, you want them to be curious.

[00:21:54] A supports all of those outcomes. And it's also a very, I say low stakes emotion. Because I think about something like gratitude and I, I love the gratitude practices and I will never, I do a lot of them, but they sometimes take cognitive work. Like I have to like sit and be like, okay, what am I grateful for today where I is, it's almost like it's invol, it feels very involuntary to me.

[00:22:20] Whereas gratitude sometimes has to be cultivated. I feel like that's a great point. I may have to notice, I may have to open my, my eyes, but it's like if I, you know, hear a news story about somebody doing something truly kind for somebody else, my eyes are gonna fill with tears or I'm gonna get goosebumps and I can't control that.

[00:22:36] Right? Yeah. It's just gonna happen. When I go out on a beautiful spring day and something is blooming, I'm gonna feel that, and I didn't, all I had to do was walk outside. I didn't have to actually say like, all right, now I need to pay attention and notice these flowers and I'm gonna jot this down. Right.

[00:22:51] That's, it's, yeah, it's one that I put myself in the path of, but it doesn't actually require much executive function skills, which is good for me. Same. 

[00:23:03] Alyssa: I'm not looking for activities that require more executive. Seriously. There's enough of 

[00:23:08] Deborah: that in parenting. Like there's tons, 

[00:23:11] Alyssa: tons. Yeah. I am to the brim.

[00:23:13] Okay. That's a fantastic point. That it doesn't really require more of us. Yes. And the restorative piece. So you, our community is really familiar with germs like cortisol and adrenaline and dopamine and serotonin. And so when we're looking at this, what it sounds like is we're gonna reduce cortisol.

[00:23:33] Mm-hmm. That stress hormone that we know is gonna flood the body with inflammation and uh, has both short and long term effects for us. And then potentially. Produce some serotonin is my guess here. Yeah. Most commonly in awe. And really regulate the nervous system. When you were sharing about it, I was like, oh, I love that feeling when my eyes get big.

[00:24:00] Right. When I'm like, oh my gosh, I need to know everything about this thing. Like this is fascinating. Yeah. And how cool it is that kids are so new to planet Earth and get to experience that over and over in ways that as we're here longer, we're not maybe learning as many new things. Things aren't as presented to us.

[00:24:23] Even just by the nature of our day to day often is, um, more habitual versus kids going to school or going out into the world and literally the world's designed for them to keep learning new things every day. And how cool it is that they get to dive into like, wait, tell me more. Mm-hmm. About that. I need to know all the things.

[00:24:43] And that feeling of like. I would stay up forever just learning about it. Versus as a mom of two young kids, there are very few things I will stay up for right now. So if you're finding something where I'm like, oh my God, this is incredible. Tell me all about it. I cannot wait to learn more. That feeling is so like visceral.

[00:25:06] Yes. You know? And, um, so rad to get to tap into, when we look at this is awe something where it's like, yeah, it's a bonus. Like we get it where we can get it, we find it where we can. Or like how, I guess how should we view it as a part of our life in ways that we're supporting kids in accessing it? I 

[00:25:30] Deborah: think for me, a lot of the desire to write this book was that when you look at the research and how strong it is, this is really an undervalued under-recognized emotion.

[00:25:42] And I often give a workshop called Building an Emotion of vocabulary. So right up your alley there too. And one of the activities we often do, whether I do this with seventh graders or with adults, is like, let's send 60 seconds and jot down every human emotion you can think of. And it dawned on me when I was writing this book is that I'd done this activity dozens of times on Wonder, never made the list right?

[00:26:05] Like this is a human frustration, joy, happy, sad, mad, scared, any variety of those. Gratitude almost always made the list. But this is an authentic like emotion that is. Distinctively different than others. Sure. But it's not something we think about much. So I'm not looking at this book or this work as like, oh, like this is the answer, or this is what you need to do.

[00:26:30] This is decidedly not a prescriptive book at all. I'm not really into prescriptive parenting, but it's more like if we can, you know, put on like a better prescription of glasses. Right. And just see things a little more clearly that for me, tuning into this and this last series years of research has helped me make minor shifts in the way I approach my own life in looking for this, in the way I pay attention to what lights my kids up.

[00:27:01] Yeah. And my life is richer like it feels. I can look at the before and after for me. Between 2021 when I started this work in 2025. There's some big ways, but in some very minor ways that like my relationship with winter in New England, which has always been a fraught relationship them, is a little bit easier because like I do this practice called kind of something beautiful every day where like I just look for one beautiful thing.

[00:27:30] And again, that could be nature, that could be a line of poetry, it could be anything, art, stem, and you know, try to, to jot it down or share with a friend or share with my kids. And so I started paying more attention like, okay, so what is there in February? Right? Like, yeah, 

[00:27:47] Alyssa: please let me know what's Deborah, what is there in February?

[00:27:50] Yeah. And besides a plane ticket to like Anna Maria Island, 

[00:27:53] Deborah: seriously. And I found that I, it wasn't always in nature. I could look right because I didn't, I don't, again, have a great relationship. But I'll tell you one Jeff, like very short story about how this kind of. Has affected me. So there was a, a Monday in February where uh, my son had the flu.

[00:28:07] Flu season was brutal in England this year. It was so rough. He was outta school for two weeks. So this was like the first of like, he was entering week two. I think. It was like, it was so cold, it was snowy. I was just, I was having some rider's block, there was stuff going on. It, it had all felt just big.

[00:28:24] 'cause February is the longest month and so I'm, I was driving to pick up my other kid from school and I was like. I have nothing for today. I start to mentally tick through the sources. Sure. Like the listeners of awe, I'm like, I could turn on some music. I could like, you know, text a good friend, which I think is a healthy practice too, to think about like, what's the thing that's gonna make me feel 5% better or 1% better even.

[00:28:45] Right. Totally. Like, what's that thing? And so I was like, okay, I'm gonna do this on the way. And then like a school bus pulled right in front of me and I knew it'd be stopping like every 10 feet, you know, on this cold road. And I, I, I just got ticked off and I was just, yeah, for sure. And so I'm driving behind the school bus and it stops and there's a long driveway.

[00:29:04] It's letting kids off. And there was this big dog, some type of retriever at the top of the driveway and it was a high school bus. And this high schooler wearing nothing but a hoodie in Sub-Zero weather gets down off the bus, hunched over with a big backpack on, and this dog comes shooting down the driveway, jumps up and you could see like this teenager's face just light up.

[00:29:27] And like I. 10 seconds, seconds. I felt it. Like I just, I was like, oh, like that's so beautiful, right? Like this dog, this kid, you know? And it just, it was, it's not that it got made my son, well, it's not that it made the day better, it didn't improve the weather, but it was just that reminder to me that there was something wondrous to find if I was willing to open my eyes for 10 seconds.

[00:29:55] So those are the types of things I find. And it's especially important for me in February, right? It's super easy In June. June everything's great. Like, oh, you know, now it's like, which one do I pick? The peonies or the blank? You totally, it's also beautiful. But I, I find that this model is really good for me during rough times to say, you know, um, there's that wonderful Nick Kita Gil, uh, poem that I have at the beginning of my afterward is like, you know, everything is awful.

[00:30:21] And she says, poets, yes. What if everything's awful? But also look at that sunset over there. It's almost like that sense of like, it, it is awful and it's a messy, and it's not like toxic positivity, not happy. Think not, you should really be grateful because it's simply, I can honor that this is difficult right now.

[00:30:41] And, you know, my neighbor brought in my trash barrels for me and I was just like, I'm so grateful. I live in a neighborhood where somebody will do that for me. And I, it's beautiful. 

[00:30:52] Alyssa: Yes. Yes. Okay. Love this. I think for me it hits two things. Well, one at the beginning that came up when you were like, they were not listing awe and wonder as emotions.

[00:31:06] Was Alice at the Heart Brene's, uh, latest book and how she shares in there, how few emotions we actually reference and, and utilize and, uh, how important it is to get more granular and kind of going into like Susan David's work there. Um, love Susan. She's great. So that came up for me first of like, oh yes, this is all connected and makes total sense there.

[00:31:35] My husband is so good at. Uh, my cousin lived with us. She's lived with us on and off over the years. I'm six years older than she is. She's always been like a younger sister to me. And so summers in college, she would come and live with us when we were living in Boston or, uh, she graduated grad school and wasn't really sure what was next.

[00:31:55] And came and live with us for a year. And we have like the, especially before kids, like the three of us, just have a really lovely relationship. And she and my husband have such a nice relationship. She and I are vastly different humans, uh, is something I would say she experiences quite easily and is very aware of and is so good at stepping into and looking for.

[00:32:19] And when we were living together the last time we lived together for a year and the second half of the. That year was COVID. So we like were together when COVID started and there were a lot of focus time for the three of us. And at one point she went through this musical phase, like musicals, but on YouTube where she was like finding YouTube musicals.

[00:32:44] And she would get really into them and we would just hear the music happening and whatever. And not too long ago, my husband heard a song and he was like, oh yeah, that was one of the ones from one of Maddie's like musicals that she was into. I was like, oh, right, I forgot about that phase. And also, how do you remember that?

[00:33:03] And he was like, oh my gosh. She and I had so many conversations about them. He's so good. At noticing what people are into and interested in and slowing down and being curious and letting kind of their awe happen and letting them expand it and go into and share like all the things about it. They're so interested in and asks such great questions.

[00:33:28] And I think this is a skillset I have to really be intentional around that for him comes so much more naturally. Yeah. And I don't know if this also falls into that like kind of sensory sensitive versus sensory seeker where like he notices these details in the way that I might miss. 

[00:33:46] Rachel: Yeah. 

[00:33:46] Alyssa: And he can tune into them.

[00:33:49] And I look at that now in parenthood where he will pick up on like intricacies that the kids are really into and. Will then like help expand that or expand their curiosity around it. Or even when we're talking about like, oh, what should we do for Sage's birthday? He's like, oh, he is been really into this thing and maybe we could find a way to, you know, he built him like a work bench 'cause he was really into tools and things like that.

[00:34:20] And he's so good at that and I find it very helpful to co-parent alongside because I get to learn from it and lean into it more from watching him. But I think leaning into the awe and as you noted, really paying attention to what our kids are curious about and what lights them up. Because I think we can fall into habits and patterns of just how we were raised, right?

[00:34:51] Like, oh, we're gonna do soccer when they turn five, or we're gonna do X, Y, and Z. Or, I've never played Dungeons and Dragons. It would never come into my radar that that is something that we should do, or that would be fun. It's never something I've experienced. And if my kid came home and they were into it, I would have to like pull back and notice that to allow them to lean into it.

[00:35:16] Right? It's not a part of my subconscious habits and patterns to be like, yeah, let's play d and d. Like, I've never done it. Right? And so I think this can be such a beautiful parenting gift in that it allows us to slow down and step outside of ourselves to really see them. 

[00:35:37] Rachel: Mm-hmm. 

[00:35:38] Deborah: So there's a. There's a professor at Harvard named Robert Waldinger, and he wrote a book recently called The Good Life, um, which is based on the 50 year study at Harvard.

[00:35:48] Basically, they tracked people for 50 years and took, did intensive interviews, took their bloods, took their vitals, and really were trying to look at what does it mean to live a good life. And so we were talking about the parenting side of this and uh, I think I used this phrase earlier, but I, it's from him.

[00:36:04] And he talks about radical curiosity, which he describes as basically taking the person in front of you and noticing something that you've never noticed before. And he said, I think the example he gave is that can be as simple as like the way their sweat runs down their forehead. And you know, in our kids' early years.

[00:36:26] That is so easy because we're so attuned to milestones. It's like, oh my gosh, they're using adverbs for the first time. Like, this is the English teacher in me. Gee. It's like, this is adverb week. This is so exciting. You know? So every chance we're also just 

[00:36:38] Alyssa: around them much. You're around them 

[00:36:40] Deborah: and they're changing so quickly.

[00:36:43] And also a lot of these, you know, so it's, and then I think we sometimes, and this happens too, I think in relationships and friendships, we get in this complacency where we think we know them. And I think this is where it actually becomes tricky for often parents who are, um, parents of pre-teens and early adolescents, because between 10 and 13, their brain is changing just as rapidly as birth of three.

[00:37:09] I mean, the connections, the synapses being pruned, you know, they will shift their identities, they'll shift their interests, they'll shift their fashion. It's an intense time. And I think it can often lead parents being like. Almost seeing it as rebellion versus identity formation. Sure. Um, and it can be confusing when it's like, oh, but you were into soccer and wait, what do you mean you wanna quit the soccer team?

[00:37:34] Right. So, you know, or you've been in this drama troupe for six years, what do you mean? Or, you know, why you two have been best friends? Why aren't you talking to hang out anymore? Because I really like that friend's mom, and we're close friends, so you have to stay close friends with this person. Totally.

[00:37:49] And I think one of the gifts we can give this age group is to be like radically curious throughout this transformation stage of like, oh, and to, to go with it. Right? You have to provide the boundaries and the warmth and the structure, but also if they wanna paint the room a different color. Okay. Like if they want to try on, you know, d and d or want to quit this, but start this, you know, obviously like some things you have to stick with, like maybe you made the commitment that you, you know, paid for the class for the semester.

[00:38:22] But I feel like trying on new things and seeing what fits them is part of their job at this age. A hundred percent. It's, and so, you know, getting really curious, um, I described in the book how, you know, um, I have a kid who just graduated from middle school and, you know, during the course of those three years, like every single major interest from sixth grade dropped, but some really vibrant interests emerged.

[00:38:49] Mm-hmm. And that process. Can be like messy, but also really, really awe-inspiring to kind of be like, oh my gosh, like I'm on the front row of my kid becoming who they are and figuring that out. And I think that's where I really have just, I've loved this phrase radical curiosity as a parent. Mm-hmm. Like when he said that, I was like, oh, that resonates.

[00:39:10] And I, I do think we often fall into this sense, you know, I also talked to a wonderful social worker named Natalie, uh, Brenner, who is out of Louisiana about this idea of belonging. 'cause belonging is a major source of wonder for our kids. Yeah. Because you wanna be part of it group. That's what I 

[00:39:24] Alyssa: was 

[00:39:24] Deborah: gonna say.

[00:39:25] Yeah. And I 

[00:39:25] Alyssa: think that's, that shift from younger to, as we move into this kind of like preteen into teen, it's, it, it was about self and self identity. And now it's who am I in this world, in this group? Mm-hmm. Who am I? Yeah. How do I show up in this space with peers? And I think that there's a part of us as parents sometimes who're like, oh, they're losing a part of themselves to belong to this group.

[00:39:50] When really maybe they're just shifting or changing or transforming. Maybe being a part of this group is something that's going to greater lift themselves, you know? Yeah. A friend of mine in, um, another interview, uh, Lindsay Simsek, co-author of almost 30, and we're talking about that transition into motherhood and she was like, a lot of people talk about what you lose and that you know, all the things you can't do or how things shift and change.

[00:40:19] She's like, I feel like I became just more myself mm-hmm. In motherhood. And I, I think especially for our kids who are high connection seekers, we see that start to happen in droves. Yeah. In that like. Really almost as young, like seven to 13, where they start to shift and we're like, oh my gosh, are they gonna be a follower?

[00:40:43] What else is gonna happen? We can spiral into like, do you know who you are and can you hang onto yourself? Yeah. I think can be the fear as a parent watching it unfold and wondering like, where is there a stop to this? Do also, do I still know you? 

[00:41:00] Deborah: Mm-hmm. Yeah. And you know, and this desire to kind of pull away from parents and pull toward a peer group, I mean, that's just, that's wired.

[00:41:09] I mean, I could go into the science. Yeah. But, you know, like that's wired in them. And my favorite book on this is actually a book called Popular by Mitch Princeton. And so I re-interviewed him for this book. 'cause he really looks at kind of like the both evolutionary and biological levels of, of what popularity is and why it shifts, you know, from kindness space to status space.

[00:41:27] And then hopefully for a lot of us back to kindness space. And yeah, like I think us as parents providing kind of the, the value framework, it's really important for us. I mean, my kids, if you ask them what is like mom care about, they are going to say she wants me to be kind. Like, yep. They know that. Like they know that this is, you know, and if they start gossing about saying at school, like, that's the thing I'm gonna chime in on because like they're listening.

[00:41:52] They know that, but beyond that, like this is their, this is their learning field. They're supposed to be pulling away. And that doesn't mean we don't keep those really awesome routines in for them because that, those touch points. But you know, they're gonna be trying on their hats and trying these different things.

[00:42:08] And, uh, one of the things that, that Natalie really said to me, if you're, if you have a kid who's struggling to connect with peers, that's really painful, right? When you have a kid who desires more than anything to connect and they're not finding it, she said so often she finds that parents have a.

[00:42:25] Unintentionally narrow view of what social group is. Yeah. And so it may be, again, as you had mentioned, what you're like, okay, we do town soccer 'cause that's what we've always done. And my dad coached it and, and she said, you know, it might be that, but it, it might be, um, you know, larp, the live action role playing.

[00:42:44] They might find their people there. They might find it at robotics camp. They might find it in, you know, a band. They might find it in working with younger kids. They might find it in, in something with service. They might, there are just so many different ways. I was, uh, thinking about a former student of mine who in high school just really struggled to find their people.

[00:43:04] And, you know, it was not easy and I wasn't gonna sugarcoat it for her. And I'd often say, you know, she was really kind of an old soul. And I say, you're gonna go to college. And I really believe that if you put yourself out there and focus on what you love, you're gonna find people. Right. But like, you know, go and, and, and you know yourself.

[00:43:21] And so she texted me freshman year about October and she's like, so I joined a local birdwatching club. And she's like, there are college students in it. There are like old people in it. She's like, it's the best. I'm having such a great time. And, and then she found other outlets. But like that was an entry in, and I loved that she was willing to say, I love this, so I'm gonna do what I love and see what social benefits come.

[00:43:49] And I think about this too as parents that I think so often, like our own social circle can surround our kids. Yeah. And that's supernatural. And I got a lot of, my best friends are my friends of my kids' parents. Totally. But I also think that, like, I wanna make sure as, especially as my kids are getting older, like that, I'm re-asking myself the question, what lights me up?

[00:44:09] Because it may not be the same thing as before I had children. Totally. And I'm discovering that like Melinda, we Moyer, who has a great new book out called Hello Crew World. Yeah. We just 

[00:44:18] Alyssa: interviewed her. She's so, yeah, she's 

[00:44:19] Deborah: amazing. She had me on her Substack and I, I, I shared this anecdote. Have you, have you ever seen the movie Runaway Bride?

[00:44:26] Yeah, yeah, of course. Yeah. So, um, there's this great moment in it where, you know, she's had a whole, whole bunch of fiances with eggs. Yes. And she doesn't know how she likes her eggs. Yes. Because she always likes, and for me, that is such a mothering metaphor, right. Like, I'm eating the leftovers. Yeah. And it's like some of those times where it's like, okay, so I loved doing this before I had kids.

[00:44:46] Now my kids are, you know, old enough that they don't require quite as much, you know, they're 11 and 13 now. Does it still like, do I like my eggs this way anymore? Or do I want 'em somewhere else? Yeah. Um, and, and that's where I actually take some inspiration from my kids, who, again, are going through that identity formation, being like, oh, I can do that again in my forties.

[00:45:05] Like, they can do that at age 13. And it's cool. I, and I embrace that as cool. Like, why can't I do it too? Why can't I ask myself? You know? Yeah. I've been doing that hobby for years. Does it still feed me the same way? Do I wanna try something new? Is there a some class at the public library? Might I meet a new friend, which is super awesome in your forties to meet a new friend?

[00:45:25] Alyssa: Oh, hang on. I had a thought and I wanted to go into it for a second and then I lost it when I started thinking of Julia. Where were we before that? I'm like, what do you like? Oh, I, I'm one of five kids. I have four brothers. Me too. I'm the youngest. Oh, no way. I'm number four. Okay. Uh, I have four brothers. So it's three older, one younger.

[00:45:47] What do you, what's your makeup? 

[00:45:48] Deborah: So, um, we have, uh, three and two. 

[00:45:52] Alyssa: Okay. And my oldest brother, he and his wife, I think, are so phenomenal at this where they, because I think, and this is where I, I was saying earlier like, my husband's good at this, and I think it's something I have to be really intentional about.

[00:46:10] Of course, I'm like, yeah, I don't care what you wear, what you're into, what you do. Like chase your dreams, do your thing. You, I played soccer and basketball. I don't care if they play soccer and basketball. But then in practice, do I bring the same jazz and excitement and investment into these other things that I do?

[00:46:28] With soccer and basketball, like not without intention, right? Right. So I could say this, but in practice, do I do it? And I, I think this is something I, my niece and nephew are 14 and 16, and I've watched my brother and sister-in-law do this so beautifully where it has been sports, it's been theater, it's been robotics, it's been instruments like, and they show up with the same level of support and excitement and engagement in whatever it is that their kids are diving into in a way that I hope to emulate.

[00:47:07] It is, I, I think really hard, at least for me, that's very hard to do. Or like, what if I'm not fired up about ballet class? Right. Like, I. I have to be very intentional about bringing that same level of support in practice and not just verbally. 

[00:47:26] Deborah: Mm-hmm. I think it's an awesome personal reflection. Um, and I think that is something that my dad was, if I think about the gifts he gave me, he was uniquely good at, as I've shared on a few of the podcasts, it, I, I realized, well into my adulthood, I was like, oh, like my dad was autistic.

[00:47:44] Like, it's so obvious now. Right. So there were some things in a household with five kids and pets and two grandparents that were very overwhelming to him. Sensory. Totally. But he really brought it when it came to my interests and to any of his kids' interests. Like, 

[00:47:58] Alyssa: yeah. 

[00:47:58] Deborah: Because he was interested in everything.

[00:48:00] He was such a curious person that I was like, I am interested in, um, you know, learning more about I, Mesopotamia, Mesopotamia, or I am interested in, you know, my. You know, playing the clarinet, it didn't really matter what it was. Like if we showed an interest, he was like going to the library to get books on it.

[00:48:19] Right? Yeah. It was just like, oh, that's super cool. It was just, it was really just the fact that we were interested in something and he just was, you know, it was the library books. He brought home so many library books and then the newspaper clippings, like, I would get stacks of newspaper clippings in college on things that I was interested in, in like seventh grade.

[00:48:39] Oh my gosh. Precious, you know, because that's, that was his love language was, you know, I'm showing, you know, in case you're ever interested and listen, I'm listening. Listen, I'm listening. And that's a core memory. You know, he's, he's been gone now for 18 years, but like, that's truly a core memory for me was that, you know, even if it wasn't his interest, he was jazzed that it was mine.

[00:49:01] Yeah. Um, I don't know if I'm as good at that as, as he was. I mean, there are things that I know that like come more naturally to me than did to him, like talking about emotions and that, but you know, he was just. So wired for wonder. Mm-hmm. Um, and I, I like that was a gift. And so I, I think it's also really a helpful reminder that, you know, we're not gonna be natural at everything with parenting, and that's okay.

[00:49:24] And I think that's where like the parenting space can sometimes feel overwhelming. Yeah. Is when, or like, I'm not a person who's quiet and, you know, doesn't come easily to use, you know, like soft voices. Like I come from a loud Italian family, somebody might say so, and then you can feel like, oh, do I need to suppress that side of myself?

[00:49:41] And I think that so much of parenting is to tap into the best sides of yourself as you can. And so, and that may be a totally different for you than for your co-parent or spouse that may be totally different than the way your parents raised you or the way your neighbor's parents. But, you know, I, I do think that when our kids see us interested in them and also interested in ourselves, right?

[00:50:02] Yeah. Like, I truly think that one of the gifts that we give our gifts to is to stay kind of curious ourselves and. You know, it's okay to listen to your own music and eat eggs the way you want to eat them. Yeah. Even if your kid doesn't wanna eat them the same way. 

[00:50:16] Alyssa: Oh, I love it. I love it. Thank you so much for writing this book, for doing this work, for having this conversation.

[00:50:24] It is something that, it's an easy lift when we just pay attention and it just requires me to pay attention. Uh, which is, you know, step one can be challenging, but I, I liked that comparison to gratitude of it's not cognitively exhausting. Right. Like, if I can notice and even just identifying like, oh, that was awe.

[00:50:48] Right? Like when you watch the dog greet the kid coming off the bus and being able to identify that for you, that experience was awe that that's enough. It's like, check, don't need to pull up my gratitude journal. Although cheers if you do that as well. But that, that is a check off that list. The physiological benefits are so worth it.

[00:51:14] So, so worth it. Thank you. Oh, this was a 

[00:51:17] Deborah: totally joyful conversation. Thank you. Okay. 

[00:51:20] Alyssa: Stay tuned after this note from our sponsors, Rach and I will be right back with the breakdown.

[00:51:31] I am so grateful that I get to hang out with you. 

[00:51:35] Rachel: I know. Same, um, 

[00:51:38] Alyssa: chat about gratitude and awe with you. 

[00:51:41] Rachel: Yeah. I'm so in awe of you right now. 

[00:51:44] Alyssa: So much sarcasm on our end. 

[00:51:48] Rachel: Um, no, but in all seriousness, what I took away from this episode and what I loved about this episode was the reminder, it's so hard for me in the daily grind to like.

[00:52:00] My kids are so good at seeing things that are like beautiful and cool and interesting and taking the time to notice and ask about them and be curious. And I'm always like, Hmm, what chore can I tackle in the next 15 minutes? And this episode was a good reminder for me that like not just for my kids to experience awe, but also for me to experience awe and all the benefits of doing that.

[00:52:25] 'cause it's so hard for me in the moment to slow down 

[00:52:29] Alyssa: a hundred percent same. And it's interesting 'cause I think kids are naturally better at it. And furthermore, I think your neuro type matters. Like when we are looking in our household of like who's really good at experiencing awe. I actually feel like my sensory sensitive human who's neurodivergent is the.

[00:52:53] It comes so much more naturally to him because he notices details that I don't even see and it comes up all the time where he'll just like kind of stop us all in our tracks to point something out that he noticed. Hmm. So, so good at mindfulness, like just being aware of what's around him? Yeah, in a way that I strive for.

[00:53:24] Wish I had. Yeah, 

[00:53:26] Rachel: it's an area of growth for me, but I also notice that with able, my sensory sensitive child, he is so aware of details and he, I mean he notices things like he can identify like the different types of like tires and rims that go on different vehicles to the point where like he doesn't, he'll be like, that looked like Mimi's car, but it had different tires and I'm like.

[00:53:53] Didn't even see the car that looked like Mimi's car. 

[00:53:57] Alyssa: So real. I mean, actually I was just say saying this last night, we were hanging out with friends and I was like, my nightmare is that I like called into a crime scene investigation and I have to remember anything about anything ever. Mm-hmm. In my life.

[00:54:11] What was that person wearing? I didn't see that person there. What car were they driving? There was a car there. Like I cannot, with any details. Mm-hmm. And I do think that that plays a role here. We also talked about gratitude in this episode. 

[00:54:29] Rachel: Yeah. 

[00:54:30] Alyssa: One thing I think with gratitude that, I mean, we know that there's so much neuroscience to support that gratitude practice.

[00:54:40] Essentially what you train your brain to look for, it looks for more of. And so if you're every day like, oh, my life is the worst, everything is terrible, yada. Like, you're gonna find more and more and more things to prove that right. If you are every day looking for things to be grateful for, looking for ways to practice gratitude, your brain is going to keep looking for more and more things that confirm that with kids.

[00:55:07] It is something that I have found most beneficial, like with most things, isn't sitting down and being like, okay, what are you grateful for? But instead like practicing it in everyday life of just like, oh wow, I'm so grateful that we get to have this time with family right now. Mm-hmm. This is such a gift.

[00:55:31] Yeah. And really modeling it 

[00:55:34] Rachel: and weaving it in to the moment instead of later on being like, okay, list all the stuff you're grateful for 

[00:55:41] Alyssa: knowing I'm stressed. 

[00:55:42] Rachel: Right. Well, it's like when you ask a kid how school is and they're like, fine, and I'm like. Is there anything else? Did you do 

[00:55:48] Alyssa: anything? No. 

[00:55:50] Rachel: Right. So I think like you have to weave it into the moment for it to be like authentic for them.

[00:55:56] Yeah. 

[00:55:57] Alyssa: Agreed. Agreed. And I, when I think about gratitude too, I think there's two things. There's one, the actual feeling of gratitude where like I feel grateful. And then there's the like social part of gratitude where it's almost like the forward facing piece. Mm-hmm. Where you're supposed to say thank you for something and not appear to be entitled.

[00:56:23] And really be grateful for what you have and like express that externally. And I think we often do this with kids who are like, say thank you to so and so and, and I think that's fine. I actually am not super opposed to teaching kids that it's a respectful thing to do or it's a good skill. It's a social cultural norm.

[00:56:42] Yeah, it's a cultural norm. That's a perfectly put it, it's a cultural norm to say thank you and receive something. But if they're a kid who in that social situation is also overwhelmed or overstimulated, I don't expect that in that moment they're also feeling gratitude. Like in that moment, especially my sensory sensitive child isn't in a place to experience the gratitude.

[00:57:09] Yeah. When the hang is over, the birthday party's done the big, like Kristmas morning, whatever is done and then we're playing. I'm like, wow. When Nana was at the store, she saw this and she thought of you and she got that special for you. She knows that you love firetrucks and rescue vehicles and she got that special for you 'cause it made her think of you.

[00:57:33] That is so thoughtful and then you can see him like smile and sink into it and experience gratitude. I think we can kind of separate these two of the feeling, the experience and the neuro benefits that come with that versus the cultural norm of expressing gratitude even if you're not yet feeling it.

[00:57:56] Rachel: Yeah, absolutely. I mean, I think about myself when I, I mean it doesn't really happen for birthdays when you're grown up, but like I think about a baby shower, right? Where you're like sitting in front of a huge crowd of people and you're opening the gifts. And of course I'm saying thank you. 'cause he is, it's so kind, but I'm also like experiencing a high level of stress because I'm the center of attention and I feel this pressure to respond the right way as I'm opening stuff.

[00:58:22] So I'm not really actually experiencing the like calm, regulated experience of gratitude in that moment. Mm-hmm. 

[00:58:31] Alyssa: Yeah. 

[00:58:31] Rachel: So I think it's, I think that it's a good balance to teach our kids like, here's what's expected socially and culturally. Mm-hmm. And then outside of that moment, if that's stressful for you also, like the experience of gratitude is for me, something that happens when I'm regulated and so 

[00:58:50] Alyssa: present.

[00:58:51] When I'm present. 

[00:58:52] Rachel: Right. Not when I'm like, oh, I'm sweating 'cause 20 people are watching me open these gifts. You know what I mean? And I think that it's a good conversation to have with kids that those two experiences can be separate. Exactly. And for a lot of, for a lot of neuro types, they are separate.

[00:59:09] Alyssa: Yeah, I agree. And I, I think we put a lot of pressure on ourselves to be like, we want them to be grateful and in the moment express that and like have both at the same time. And it's just letting ourselves off the hook as parents that they don't have to, like, it's okay if they learn the social skills saying thank you and the gratitude is not happening in that same moment.

[00:59:30] Mm-hmm. Also just a quick LOL because you were just saying like, oh yeah, as an adult, your birthday yesterday was Kylie's birthday. And I was like, I texted her happy birthday and she was like, thanks. Pretty classic birthday in my late thirties where I'm going to get the car washed in an oil change. And like it's just the like logistics of and potty training my 

[00:59:56] Rachel: toddler.

[00:59:57] It's so classic. It's just like so 

[00:59:59] Alyssa: real. 

[01:00:00] Rachel: It's just another day. 

[01:00:02] Alyssa: Just another day. 

[01:00:04] Rachel: Sometimes I do get kind of emo on my birthday 'cause I know it's gonna be just another day. And part of me is like, yeah, I have small kids. This is the season in life. It's finite. It's all good. And then part of me is like, I really just wanna feel.

[01:00:19] A little spoiled. Sure, yeah. 

[01:00:21] Alyssa: Yeah. I always do one thing to spoil myself because same also, growing up in a family with five kids, there were seven humans in my family. The only day ever in my whole life that was ever about just me was my birthday. So for me and like that is important. And then it's so funny 'cause Zach, my husband's an only child and for him he like doesn't really care.

[01:00:44] He's like, oh, we can do whatever. He doesn't really need to be celebrated. I'm like, oh right. His every day of your entire life. 365 baby. Your birthday about you. Yes.

[01:00:57] Must be nice. 

[01:00:58] Rachel: Yeah, totally. But yeah, I think I want to be a better facilitator for my kids of experiencing. Mm-hmm. Awe and. I could do a better job of that piece of it, of not always being in a rush or like always being so laser focused on my own agenda that I can't be flexible with them. 

[01:01:22] Alyssa: Totally. Just slowing down.

[01:01:24] Yeah. Yeah. I agree. And that was like my biggest takeaway from this episode was like if I just slow down and a notice the details, but also allow him to continue to notice the details, not rushing my child who is noticing the details through, because I have to do the next thing in my to-do list. 

[01:01:46] Rachel: Mm-hmm.

[01:01:47] Yeah. The temptation to do that is so real 

[01:01:51] Alyssa: as if I've ever gotten to the end of it. Like, listen, it never ends. There is no end. There's no end to the to doula. Stop chasing it. 

[01:01:58] Rachel: Yeah. And like it's not gonna change anything. If I slow down to watch like a honeybee on a milkweed flour with my kid, it's really not.

[01:02:07] It's gonna change their experience, but it's not gonna change anything about my to-do list. 

[01:02:11] Alyssa: Yes. Actually, quick story. Okay. Tonight, Zach was putting Sie down for bed. Uh, LOL. He didn't fall asleep for an hour. Um, we didn't know he was just in his room, quiet. He turned the monitor on when we put Mila down and we were like, oh, wow, he is awake, whoopsie, um, whoopsies.

[01:02:28] But Zach was doing his bedtime and I was hanging with Mila. She'd already had like Tubby and our next door neighbors, we have four kids that live next door and the youngest is two, like seven months older than Mila. And the youngest was crying and Mila heard it, and she said her name and she said, sad.

[01:02:47] And she was like, Mila, kiss, hug. And I was like, you wanna go see if she wants a kiss or a hug? And she said, okay. And then you wanna see if she's okay. She's like, yeah. And we were in for the night, like it was getting late. Ev there was like a part of me, it was like, we're not gonna go outside and do this right now.

[01:03:08] I'm so glad I like slowed down. I was like, what's it matter? Like she's showing empathy. Yeah. I told her we were in for the night, but it, this is way cooler than being in for the night. Totally. And we did, we popped out and the two of them were just precious. Oh. The little girl was snuggling her dad and Mila said, okay.

[01:03:30] And I was like, oh, she wants to know if you're okay. And the little girl was like, yeah, bonk. And I was like, oh, you bonk. She was like, oh, bonk. Mila offered her a kiss. And she said, no. Mila offered her a hug. And she said Yes. And just like that toddler hug with each other. I love it. It was so cute. And then Mila was like play and asked her to come play and she was like, yeah.

[01:03:53] And the two of them just like went and played for 10 minutes. It was so cute. And I was like, oh, this was worth it. And to like a hundred percent watch their empathy. I was in awe of these tiny humans. Engaging with such empathy and compassion with each other. Like genuinely. 

[01:04:14] Rachel: Yeah. She just wanted to connect with her.

[01:04:17] Alyssa: Yeah, so love her. Sweet. She's the cutest ever. I love her so 

[01:04:22] Rachel: much. 

[01:04:23] Alyssa: So sweet. Cheers to us. Just slowing down and experiencing more awe. Thanks for tuning in to Voices of Your Village. Check out the transcript at voices of your village.com. Did you know that we have a special community over on Instagram hanging out every day with more free content?

[01:04:42] Come join us at seed dot and dot. So SEW take a screenshot of you tuning in. Share it on the gram and tag seed. And so to let me know your key takeaway, if you're digging this podcast, make sure to subscribe so you don't miss an episode. We love collaborating with you to raise emotionally intelligent humans.