Let the Kids Read: What Judy Blume Taught Us About Truth-Telling, with Rachelle Bergstein

Before we dive in: this episode includes discussion of masturbation, sex and other adult topics.

Disclaimer: This transcript was generated with the help of AI and may contain minor errors or inconsistencies. Please refer to the audio for the most accurate representation of the conversation.

Alyssa: [00:00:00] You're listening to Voices of Your Village and today's episode is such a treat. I got to sit down with Rachelle Bergstein to talk about her work on the incredible Judy Blume, and the impact her stories have had across generations. We talk about censorship, the importance of letting kids ask big questions, and what it means to create space for children to explore who they are without shame. We dig into the nuances of parenting and what it looks like to support individuality while staying deeply connected. Don't forget to check out Rachelle's book, The Genius of Judy Blume. All right, folks, let's dive in.

Alyssa: [00:00:41] Hey there. I'm Alyssa Blask Campbell. I'm a mom with a master's degree in early childhood education and co-creator of the collaborative emotion processing method. I'm here to walk alongside you through the messy, vulnerable parts of being humans, raising other humans with deep thoughts and actionable tips. Let's dive in together.

Alyssa: [00:01:03] I am so stinking curious about the why and the how of this book. What sparked it for you?

Rachelle: [00:01:12] Yeah, so this is my third non-fiction book, and my first two books were about shoes and diamonds, so I had that sick. Yeah. So I had started, like, developing a voice around things that women love or supposedly love, things that I felt were connected to a larger story about women's roles. A very long standing interest in feminism, and particularly second wave feminism. So Judy sort of evolved from there. I know it feels a little bit like a departure, but for me, Judy Blume's books are things that girls and women just cherish. Right. And for a long time in her career, I learned Judy wasn't taken particularly seriously as an author, as a creator, as a writer, or any of those things. So I thought to myself, you know, why is it that there are so many women out there who, when you say the word or the name Judy Blume, they get almost emotional about it, you know, because they feel that she had such an incredible impact on their childhoods and their lives. Why is that true, Judy, and not necessarily of contemporary writers of hers who were also writing about kind of bold, interesting subjects. So, I don't know. It just led me down this path of writing what I always envisioned as kind of a hybrid biography and cultural history. Cool.

Alyssa: [00:02:38] When you were diving in, I feel like I don't know much about Judy's, like, personal story. When you were diving in to learn about it, were there humans you connected with throughout this? Like what did your research into her personal story kind of look like?

Rachelle: [00:02:54] Yeah. So the first thing I did is that she has a pretty extensive archive at Yale. So I got myself to Yale. Like almost the moment the Covid restrictions lifted, I got an email from the library saying we're now allowing outside researchers in. And I said to my husband, I have to make an appointment like right away, because, again, we didn't really know about the ebbs and flows of the virus. And I was like, they might close down again. So I got myself there pretty quickly after hearing that they were allowing researchers. And her archive is amazing. You know, it's drafts of her books and letters from children that she received all throughout her career her notes, her early notebooks doodles, lists of ideas that she wrote on like yellow legal pads. I mean, all of it. So that gave me an unbelievable foundation in terms of just immersing myself in Judy's experience of being Judy Blume.

Alyssa: [00:03:48] Yeah.

Rachelle: [00:03:49] And then, of course, you know, she's been famous for so long that she's done so much media. You know, she's done so many interviews. She's done so many newspaper and magazine features. So that's where I was able to kind of flex my research muscles and, you know, go to the New York Public Library and do the archival research. I contacted librarians from places where she had lived. So I went to the Elizabeth, new Jersey Public Library, which is where she grew up. And they had like a little mini archive of stuff around her. I worked with a librarian from Scotch Plains, new Jersey, who didn't have a ton of stuff on Judy, but Judy had lived there kind of early in her career and was able to point me towards some kind of early local articles written about Judy. It was like, I remember one made me laugh. It was published in the late 1960s and it was like local mom writes book. You know, that's so funny. It's so funny. Yeah, exactly. And then I, you know, I spoke to people both who had known her and who didn't. Right. So I spoke to someone who worked at her publisher called Bradbury Press, who had been there through like, the height of her career. And then I spoke to a lot of librarians, sex educators people that I thought could give context to her success.

Alyssa: [00:05:06] When you were diving in to her work, were there any was there anything along the way that was just, like, shocking to you? Or were you like, oh, this just is like really rad. Just like pulls the picture together, but make sense? Was there anything that stood out and was like, oh, hot damn, didn't see that coming.

Rachelle: [00:05:25] Yeah, I mean, so I am I grew up in the 80s and 90s and to my experience, Judy Blume had never not been successful and famous. Right? Judy Blume was always like the name when it came to children's literature. And what really surprised me, and also kind of hooked me into her story, was that she wasn't a born writer. She wasn't successful right away. She had tried a lot of other creative things before she landed on children's book writing. She wanted to write songs. She made felt pendants to hang in kids rooms and sell in Bloomingdale's. You know, she was grasping for some sort of outlet, and that was something that I related to, right? I think a lot of us as creative people, we have a lot of outlets growing up. You know, maybe we take dance lessons or do the school play. She was the editor for school newspaper. But then after growing up and getting a job and, you know, having a family, it's like those opportunities kind of disappear. And for her, it was really devastating. And so she was looking for something to do with her very creative little mind. And she found children's book writing and she wasn't amazing at it. Right out of the gate, you know, she really had to work at it and try. She tried a lot of different voices and modes, and she had guidance along the way. She had people who told her she had no talent, you know, and so all of that was it was the foundation of a triumphant story for me to tell. But it also was very appealing on a personal level, because it was something that I think made her much more human and relatable.

Alyssa: [00:07:04] Are you like, want to today dive into the, like, book banning? But I'm just like thinking, like about her as a human. And what what do you think would come out of her mouth around? Yeah, we're going to actually avoid awkward conversations or hard conversations by just banning these books. And we're not going to let kids read them. What do you think her perspective of that would be today?

Rachelle: [00:07:32] Well, I know that her perspective is that it's crazy. It's absurd. Right. Because children, despite being young have a lot of questions and there are unavoidable things about being human. And those include sexuality and death and complex things that we even as adults, have trouble talking about. Right. But if you cut off avenues to information, that doesn't mean that you're able to shield children from them, or that you're able to pretend that they don't exist until you're ready to talk about them. Kids are naturally curious. They find other ways to learn about things that you won't tell them. And I mean, in my experience, raising my child whenever he senses that there's something I don't want to talk about it, that talk about that only makes it more tantalizing, right?

Alyssa: [00:08:26] Totally. Now it's so juicy.

Rachelle: [00:08:28] Right? Yeah. So Yeah, I mean, I think that the book bans, for many reasons don't work. And I know that Judy was very taken aback when her book started being banned because she had had a pretty successful career writing about controversial topics before anyone was saying that they were bad for kids, so it kind of came out of left field. History has been really cyclical in this way. You know, I'm referencing a moment in the 1980s when she was the country's most banned writer for a time. And now, as you know, you know, we're kind of back in this moment where people are challenging books, saying it's bad for children to read about certain topics and trying to remove them from public spaces. So, yeah, I mean, all things come around again.

Alyssa: [00:09:17] When this happened in the 80s, which I didn't realize she was like the most banned. I mean, it makes sense, but like, not that not that it makes sense in terms of a logical approach. But if there was going to be a book ban around the time, it makes sense that she would have been in the like top for kids books. But when it happened. Was there a pivot for her? Was there? I'm sure it's got to come with a lot of fear. As an author of like, what does this mean for me, for my career, my ability to continue writing. Do I double down and go like hard into. Yeah. No. These are topics I'm going to continue to write about because they're really important to me. I'm wondering how she navigated that. I could see an opportunity for like that scarcity kind of fear mindset popping up there.

Rachelle: [00:10:08] She really stuck to her guns.

Rachelle: [00:10:11] She believed that children have the right to have questions about their bodies, and that they also have the right to answers. Right. So when we think of her most iconic books. Are you there God? It's me, Margaret Deenie forever. These books tackle subjects like menstruation, like masturbation, like losing your virginity. And they do it in ways that are very clear. And she felt like she was filling a really important gap for children who didn't necessarily have access to great sex ed. You know, sex ed has always been controversial in this country. Who didn't necessarily always have parents who were willing to answer their questions. And, you know, we're living in a pre-Internet world, right? You have to remember that information was not nearly as easy to come by in the 70s as it is today.

Alyssa: [00:10:57] Totally. Unless it was in that Encyclopedia Britannica on my wall where my dad would be like, go look it up.

Rachelle: [00:11:03] Totally, totally. And access to good information was even more scarce. So she believed in what she was doing, and she did receive pushback. She actually removed a very brief masturbation scene from her book, Tiger Eyes, which came out in 1981. And it was on the advice of her editor, who had never given her pushback about things that she wrote about before. But he was aware of the climate and felt that, you know, if she published this really wonderful book, I don't know if you've read it, but if she published it with this scene, that it would instantly be targeted and that fewer children would be able to read it. So she acquiesced and then has said really publicly that she regretted doing that, that she gave in to the censors and it felt really bad to her. She found it really depressing, you know. Phyllis Schlafly's group, the Eagle Forum, actually circulated a pamphlet called How to Rid Your Schools of Judy Blume books. Wow. Yeah, there was a very specific target on her, and it wasn't, I think the most banned book when she was being banned was still The Catcher in the Rye, but she was the most banned author because so much of her catalog was being banned. So she had something like seven books that were being banned across the country at once.

Alyssa: [00:12:25] Sure.

Rachelle: [00:12:26] And she felt helpless. You know, she was being called the names that you got called at that time, like you know, pornographer, like a communist. And she finally connected with someone at the National Coalition Against Censorship, which is a little offshoot of the ACLU. And it was then that she was able to find empowerment not necessarily being banned. Nobody wants that. But she was able to find tools and community around being banned. So she was able to kind of stand her ground with more support to, you know, to have a toolkit for pushing back. And she became really a pioneer against censorship in this country, which is why I think so many of us are looking to her now again to say, like, what do we do? And I know a lot of organizations are actually asking her to weigh in because she has lived it firsthand.

Alyssa: [00:13:18] What wild is just the amount of fear and really pulling back and saying, like, what are you actually afraid of? Right. So my commitment to myself this year was I live in this real bubble here in Burlington, Vermont, and my commitment to myself was to engage more with humans who vote differently than I do. Who might have some different values than I have? And to just get curious. And I'm like feeling that come up here of like when it comes to banning these books and shutting down the Judy Blume's of the world from accessing our children, what are we really afraid is going to happen if they read about masturbation? Right? What are we really afraid is going to happen if they read about trans humans or anything outside of a gender binary, right? Like, what is the fear behind all of this? And I hate that it's so cyclical. Like this is in the 80s. And now here we are 40 years later and we're just like doing it again.

Rachelle: [00:14:31] Same same thing.

Alyssa: [00:14:33] Just like what? Like why can we pause and get curious about this and truly like, what are we afraid is going to happen and would it ruin our kids?

Rachelle: [00:14:44] I'm really curious about it too. And you know, I have joked that, like, a book couldn't have made me gay. But, you know, so, like, when you think about it in those terms as a parent, like when you were growing up, could a book have made you trans or.

Alyssa: [00:15:04] Could a book or if, like, you're a straight white man today who is like, we have to ban these books for kids. If you were reading them, would it have made you gay?

Rachelle: [00:15:15] Right. But I think, you know, I spoke to one librarian who I remember said, like the fear. Her theory was that the fear boils down to that your kids are gonna leave you, right? That they're going to be exposed to different options and different choices, and maybe they're going to want something different than what you're offering. Yeah, but isn't that the whole, like, parenting experience, right? Oh my gosh, can that be prevented? And do you want to prevent it?

Alyssa: [00:15:47] Well that's it. It's like, aren't we try but maybe we aren't. Maybe some humans are not trying to raise kids who are going to question what comes their way or have their own thoughts, opinions, ideas, values that might be different from mine. And when I think about that down the road, I'm like, yeah, that there are some values that if my child had different ones, would be very hard for me to navigate, right. That if they had values that really felt in conflict with things that I feel strongly about would be so hard for me to navigate. And the idea that I can prevent them from experiencing outside influence. Input. Exposure to try and mold them into the human I want them to be is just simply not what I'm trying to do here.

Rachelle: [00:16:46] It sounds really exhausting, if I'm being honest with you. I mean, parenting is exhausting no matter what. But that sounds really exhausting to try to mold and shape them to a point where they're not self-directed in any way. I mean.

Alyssa: [00:17:02] I think it really comes back to discomfort of like, if my child reads this book and then they have questions, then I have to have conversations that I don't feel equipped to have or no one's ever had with me. I haven't even really had with myself. Maybe. And I don't know how to have them or how to answer them. A friend of mine recently was talking about a homeless folks here in Burlington. It was like, how do you talk to your kids about this? Like what? And I was like, so cool that she asked. Right. And that we could dialogue about it instead of being like, yeah, I'm just gonna wing it and say whatever comes up, and I don't feel prepared for it, and I have nothing to go off of. And like, fingers crossed, I figure something out in the moment because they're gonna ask, right? Like, it's something that we're gonna encounter every day. And I think that it's brave to turn to your crew, or to turn to other adults, or to turn to resources as a parent and say, what do I do here? I need help in this part, and I don't know how to navigate it. And I think it's cowardly to say, I'm just gonna avoid those conversations because I don't want to have them.

Rachelle: [00:18:26] Well, it's also challenging when we have people in this country who are saying, I don't really want sex education in schools, or I want only abstinence only sex education in schools, but I also don't really want to be having the conversations at home. And that seems to me like an abdication of responsibility.

Alyssa: [00:18:46] That's what I'm saying.

Rachelle: [00:18:48] However, I think if we're really drilling down into this, we have to account for the religious component. You know, I think there are a lot of people who feel that it's actually, like, really shameful and against their religion to be allowing for some of these different choices. Right. So when we talk about the books that are being banned now, Judy's books are not at the top of the list anymore. The books that are being targeted right now are often about LGBTQ lives. And, you know, that feeds into a larger conversation that is being had as a culture, as a country. Like, is it okay to be trans? And of course, I'm going to assume that you and I agree that, yes, it is. You know. Yeah. But for certain religious people, I don't want to let them off the hook. But I think that there is a religious element here where people are growing up in very small communities and, like, can't wrap their minds around something really different.

Alyssa: [00:19:47] Yes, yes, I do a lot of work in schools and school districts. And my I did research in building emotional intelligence in kids. And so that's like my background. And we go into schools and we go into school systems and help create sensory regulation, emotional friendly spaces. So where kids sensory needs can be met for all human, where we can have regulating environments and where we can have emotionally supportive responses. And I was in a first grade classroom yesterday, and there was a student who was like, testing was happening. So kids were playing in small groups and kids were being called up kind of one by one to do a reading test with the teacher, and I was sitting near the teacher and just taking some notes and observing the classroom and but could hear the teacher's interactions with the child. And there was a child who came up and was, I would say, male presenting. And then when they turned had like a ponytail that had like some like dye in it and like a unicorn situation on the back of their shirt. And this is like a small rural town. It is very conservative area high poverty. And the kiddo walked away and I turned to the teacher and I was like, oh, what's that child's pronouns? And the teacher said, you know, I don't know.

Alyssa: [00:21:25] I think that and the teacher named the child was a boy and now I'm not sure. So I just call them by their name. And I was like, oh, have you asked them, what are your pronouns? And this young male teacher was like, can I just ask that? I was like, give it a whirl. And he was like, oh, okay, great. He was like, yeah. I didn't want to, like, offend him. So I just have just been saying their name instead of their pronouns. And I was like, okay, great, like that. But it was just that simple. Like, oh, am I allowed to do that? And there is this is a teacher, right? Like working with children every day. But culturally, that's not a conversation that's happening probably at the school district or in the surrounding towns of like, oh yeah, how are we addressing pronouns? And I think things, resources and information like Judy Blume's work in now, so many others are so crucial for our kids. It's the opposite of needing them to be banned.

Rachelle: [00:22:33] Totally. I mean, I sort of love that that moment of education turned out so well. I was waiting that I thought that story might go in a darker direction.

Alyssa: [00:22:41] I also anticipated it.

Rachelle: [00:22:44] It sounds like the teacher was super receptive. And that's so awesome, right? Yeah, it was a shock to me. Yeah.

Alyssa: [00:22:51] It was one where I was like, I'm gonna say this and I don't know how it's gonna land.

Rachelle: [00:22:55] Yeah, and good for you and good for him that he was like, oh, okay. Great. You know. And maybe that results in one more child feeling like, validated, you know. Yeah. I'm also in a bubble here in Brooklyn. Right. Like, it's a very liberal. I mean, there are different shades, right? But like, sure, you know things like pronouns are kind of par for the course here now. And I can say from inside my bubble, like, no one's being hurt by it, right? I can't see a single example where someone has been hurt by being asked their pronouns, or you know how they identify. I mean, it just there's there's no there's no societal collapse happening here. Everyone's quite happy.

Alyssa: [00:23:45] Yeah, but I think there's this idea that, like, we're convincing kids to be or do something from the outside, and I it's so not been my experience in my bubble that there's any sort of convincing anyone of anything. My experience has just been exposure to get to be who you are.

Rachelle: [00:24:07] Totally, totally. I think it's more that for children who have nonconforming gender, it just creates a world where maybe they won't be lost.

Alyssa: [00:24:22] Yeah, even the freedom, I think like from an emotional development perspective, To the freedom to get to show up in a space where you get to experience all emotions and express all emotions. And we know that there's solid research on gender and what emotions have been traditionally allowed from male to female. And we know that when we're looking at, like males down the road, how that plays out of you get to feel mad, you get to feel angry, you get to feel frustrated. You don't get to feel embarrassed. You don't get to feel sad. You don't get to feel left out or lonely. And the weight that that then has, and the burden of that down the road and what it looks like for emotional development and expression and emotional intelligence as a whole. And one of the things that I think is really cool to look at in a space where even outside of like, what are your pronouns? Or how do you identify is that freedom of like, oh yeah, everyone gets to feel their feelings when we're pulling gender away from it. That you don't have to stop being sad when you're in fourth grade and you're a boy because you're a boy. You still get to feel sad here. And that's new. That's not what we had growing up. It's not what our boys had growing up. And we're shifting that now. And when I look at the incredible work of the LGBTQ community, that's one of those, like, rollover things that I see that I think was, you know, unintended there. I don't think people were setting out to be like, we're going to make sure everyone can feel their feelings in this movement. But I think, like one of the really cool unintended consequences that's been positive is allowing now everyone to also then feel all your feelings.

Rachelle: [00:26:18] Yeah, I think you're so right. And I was just thinking as you were talking about like kind of how there's a domino effect of like when you're taught that you can like what you actually like, right? Like if you're a boy who likes sparkles, you know, you want to be.

Alyssa: [00:26:37] A nurse and not a doctor.

Rachelle: [00:26:38] Right?

Alyssa: [00:26:39] And you want to be a teacher, not a gym teacher.

Rachelle: [00:26:41] Completely. All these, like, silly things that we grew up with that like, why are they so gendered, you know? And why are these things being tied to sexuality when the kids were talking about are five, right?

Alyssa: [00:26:55] Yes.

Rachelle: [00:26:57] So, you know, I think, like, once you free yourself and your children of some of these quote unquote rules, like the rest of it comes into place, the bigger stuff that you're talking about, the ability to be in touch with your feelings and not have to teach yourself from a really young age to shove them down into, you know, stifle your voice. Like, these are all connected, I think 100%.

Alyssa: [00:27:21] 100% and this kind of stuff only continues to grow and to evolve from work, like Judy Blume's, from folks who dare to push past the bands and say like, yeah, no, this is important and it's educational, and I'm going to continue to provide that as a resource for folks.

Rachelle: [00:27:43] Yeah, and open up the questions. Right. I think that for me, if my son reads something that he doesn't understand, the best case scenario is that he brings it to me or my husband. Totally right. I mean, let's be real about the internet, the, you know, computers that we all carry around in our pockets, the technology that kids have access to, whether you give it to them or not. Really, the best thing I can envision for some of these tough conversations is that my son feels comfortable coming to me and asking the question, and if it means that I have to get embarrassed or I have to, you know, start an answer and feel like I'm walking a tightrope and being like, I hope this ends in the right place, you know? Yeah. It's okay. It's okay. Totally. You know, it's okay to be uncomfortable.

Alyssa: [00:28:31] Totally. And to say, like, thank you so much for trusting me or thank you so much for telling me. And we can say things like, I don't know that answer, but I'm gonna help you figure it out. We can figure it out together. The safety and relationship that they have to feel to bring it to you. If they know that they're reading a banned book or a thing that you consider to be something they're not allowed to read, if they encounter something they're not sure about or they're curious about, they're not going to come to you. If they're afraid that they're going to be in trouble for having read it in the first place. It's so crucial that our kids know, like I, I asked my four year old recently, I was like, buddy, is there anything that you could do where you would be in trouble. And he was like, what's in trouble? I was like, okay, cool starting point, right? And I was like, you know that? Like, maybe I would be mad at you or something. And he was like, well, maybe if I started a fire in our house on purpose and burned down the whole house. And I was like, okay. And he was like, I think I would be in trouble with the fire department. True. It's like, okay. Yeah, fair that you probably wouldn't be in trouble.

Rachelle: [00:29:49] Discovered arson, you know.

Alyssa: [00:29:53] Oh my gosh. But what that meant for me was like, he knows that no matter what happens, we can figure it out together. And I'm not gonna be mad at him, even if it's something he knew he wasn't supposed to do. And he did it anyway.

Rachelle: [00:30:09] My son got in trouble when I found, like, crackers under his bed because he had had friends over and they were all eating in his room, and then nobody cleans it up. I was like, you are. And this is a big deal. I am mad, you know. But he has never been in trouble for asking me a tough question. And, you know, it's actually led to a lot of laughter. Like, I remember the first time he asked me how the baby comes out of the mom's belly, and it was earlier than I expected him to ask that question. And I told him straight, and he started laughing and he said, that's disgusting. And I said, I mean, you know what? It totally is, but it's also the way it works, right?

Alyssa: [00:30:54] So it wasn't so good when I was pregnant with Mila. Seiji was obviously very interested in this and how he came out and all that, and he was very interested in being a part of the repair crew. He has been in a real doctor phase for a long time now, but he was like, mom, when the baby comes out, if your vagina is broken. I can help give it stitches and I'll bring my chainsaw and my power scraper and like all these tools. And it was very precious. I had a home birth for both of them, and he went over to my mother in law's when I was in labor with Mila, and he was like, make sure the midwives don't fix all of it before I come back. I'm going to help. I was like, oh, bless.

Rachelle: [00:31:45] That is so funny. And definitely something that he will be reminded of one day and be very embarrassed.

Alyssa: [00:31:52] Correct.

Rachelle: [00:31:53] But that is amazing.

Alyssa: [00:31:55] So good. Right? It's so good. And he was so sweet. He like. Mom, do you need a pad in your underwear? Like, just how can I help? Because we just normalize the bodies and, yeah, I push a human out of my vagina, and I'm going to bleed for a little while, because that's insane.

Rachelle: [00:32:10] It's insane.

Alyssa: [00:32:11] But it wasn't scary for him or overwhelming. And I was like, how cool that if he has a partner one day who has a vagina. He's not afraid of it. He's like, I know how to show up. This has been normalized for me. I understand how all these processes work. And you don't have to secretly carry your tampon in your pocket to the bathroom.

Rachelle: [00:32:30] Totally, totally. We all have bodies, like. Yeah, that's that's where we're all starting.

Alyssa: [00:32:38] That's it, man. That's it. Oh, man, in my body is so much harder to be in than his.

Rachelle: [00:32:45] Every every day a little harder.

Alyssa: [00:32:48] Every day a little harder. This is so rad. I'm so jazzed that you dove into her story. And especially now at a time where we're seeing this resurgence of trying to silence voices and concepts and education in the name of fear. Such an important time for us to be talking about how this has happened in history and what the results of it were.

Rachelle: [00:33:17] Thank you so much. Yes, this was really a great conversation and I really appreciate it.

Alyssa: [00:33:21] Yeah, thanks. Samesies. Stay tuned. After this note from our sponsors, Rach and I will be right back with the breakdown. I'm about to go on my last plane ride for a month, which, wow, right now is. That's a long time away. I still have driving trips in between there where I'm away from my kids overnight here and there. But only on a plane a month from now. So anyway, I am like, keynoting this conference in Canada on Friday, my keynote is done at like 1145. I know there's not a world in which I walk out of there at 1145.

Rachelle: [00:34:11] Right?

Alyssa: [00:34:12] But there's like a 3:00 flight or 330, maybe even. But the airport. I have to go through customs because you're rolling.

Rachel: [00:34:25] I can already tell that you're rolling the dice.

Alyssa: [00:34:28] I don't have that flight. I have a 9:30 p.m. flight. But I was like, is there a chance that I can leave this conference building by 12 and I can get to the airport by two? It's like an hour and a half, but I have to go through customs and return the car and get through security and get to my gate and get on the like 3:00 plane. It's so annoying when there's nothing in the middle where it's like 330 or 9 nine.

Rachel: [00:34:58] Gross. But let's be real. When you are presenting, never once have I seen you leave a building within 15 minutes of your presentation ending. I mean, that's bonkers.

Alyssa: [00:35:11] In the very least, I have to pee and fill my water bottle. And the reality is, I talk to everybody after.

Rachel: [00:35:16] That's exactly right.

Alyssa: [00:35:18] Yeah. Zach was like why don't you just let yourself settle in there. Because I can like have lunch there and stuff. He's like why don't you just do that and embrace the fact that you're getting on a plane at 930. And that's what's happening.

Rachel: [00:35:31] Yeah.

Alyssa: [00:35:32] There is just this part of me that's like what if I could make it?

Rachel: [00:35:36] I know I get like that. I totally get this. One time we were in Florida and, like, plans had changed, and we just, like, let's go home early. Like, it was originally going to be a two week trip. And like, day ten, some stuff went down and we were like, let's go home early. This was at like seven in the morning. So we're like toying with the idea. And then at nine I'm like, no, I'm serious. I want to go home and there's an 1130 flight and we did it. But it was terrifying. And like, it was like shoving stuff in bags and like, rushing everywhere, knowing we might not make it. And like, that's not even with a conference that was just like my kids in their suitcases.

Alyssa: [00:36:13] Yeah, but kids had a whole thing to it where I'm like, I'm just solo when I'm solo. I feel like anything is possible. All of a sudden I'm like, yeah, I could do anything because I don't have kids with me.

Rachel: [00:36:22] Yeah, the world is your oyster.

Alyssa: [00:36:24] Oh my gosh. We were speaking of not having kids with me. We just had where I went on a work trip that was driving distance, but I was going to be gone for ten days. And so Zach came out with the kids on Friday. He stayed until Tuesday and then took me back with him. And my parents were there to like, watch the kids. And so they watched them Monday, Tuesday, and then they watched Mila Wednesday, Thursday, Friday. And then I was like parenting in the evening when I was done and stuff. But I got to then see her on Wednesday, Thursday, Friday. But Zach was then solo with Seiji on Tuesday night until we got back Saturday night. And he was like, it is insane how one kid is one kid, but two kids is five kids.

Rachel: [00:37:10] It's so true.

Alyssa: [00:37:12] And they're both the sensory sensitive ones. And so for both of them, he was like, there were no meltdowns. There was no pushback. It was so easy to parent him. And I was like, yeah, because his dream is to be an only child. This is why, like, he got to a certain age and we were like, oh yeah, we can have another one. Like, this is flowing and it's pretty chill. And then we did. And she's a sensory seeker and he's sensory sensitive. And so it's just like, oh my gosh, just her existence is overstimulating for him and mine to like the two of us in a room. I mean, any additional humans for him just add stimuli. But specifically, the two of us who love to chat and connect verbally and physically and he's like, oh my God. But I did have one moment. I think I texted you about this, but I got home on Saturday and he was still awake because we were Dogsitting. Kylie's dog, who's a gem and seiji's obsessed with dogs and especially this dog. She's like a therapy dog and we get home and he usually goes to bed about 730 and it's like 815 and I walk in and Zach's like, hi, welcome home. Also, sage is still awake and I was like, okay, I pop up to like, say hi to him and tell him I'm home and he's crying.

Alyssa: [00:38:37] And it was like subtle. He's like wiping his tears. He's not like sobbing. And I was like, what's wrong, buddy? And he was like, I'm sad to say goodbye to Penny. I miss her. And I was like, buddy, she's staying the night. He was like, but I had to say goodbye to her for bed and I miss her. I want to be near her. And I was like, okay, we never lay with him, not because we don't want to, but because he doesn't want us to. And he's on the top bunk of a bunk bed. And I was like, buddy, would you like me to come lay with you. And he was like, yeah. And I just went up and he was the little spoon to my big spoon. And he fell asleep holding my hand. And I just started sobbing like full sobbing. Once he was asleep, because I can remember one other time in recent years where he fell asleep in my arms, and it was after he busted his lip and got stitches and he took a nap where he usually doesn't nap, and he fell asleep in my arms because he had never at that point used a pacifier to without, for he'd always had one for sleep.

Alyssa: [00:39:43] Yeah. And that was his first time not having one for sleep. And so I just held him in my arms with Slothy, and he fell asleep and slept in my arms for 30 minutes in my bed. And I, like, started sobbing in his bed and was like, oh my gosh, that was a year and a half ago. All, you know, these things, they just. And I had flashbacks to him, just like being a newborn and having that cat nap in a dark room where we'd lay in a bed because he wanted to nurse to sleep, but then didn't want to actually be touching me. So he'd, like, move away from my body in my bed and just these, like, little moments that all of a sudden they're just gone where they aren't laying with you anymore or falling asleep holding your hand. And I just started sobbing, and I came downstairs and Zach had put Mila down and he's like did something happen? And I was like, yeah, sage was my little spoon. And I just he fell asleep holding my hand and I can't handle it. It was so precious and I was just so present for it. Oh.

Rachel: [00:40:47] I also feel like for the kids who, like, aren't big on physical affection, it's even more like, meaningful because it's so unusual. I feel this way with Nora. Like, she really doesn't like physical affection, but there are times where she will, like, come in for a hug or whatever. And it's just like, wow, it's so unusual. And I know it's so fleeting that I'm like, oh man, I just have to soak this up because it's just it's not something that happens very often, and it's a way that I feel connected, and it's not typically a way that she does. So it's like very cup filling for me when and I think it's similar for you and sage like it's not usually as jam and it is your jam. Yeah.

Alyssa: [00:41:32] Oh I filled my cup so much and I was like, thank you. Thank you to whatever you believe in in this world. Just hook me up with the cutest, sweetest welcome home snuggle. Yeah. I was like, thank goodness he was up crying. Like, what a gift.

Rachelle: [00:41:50] Oh.

Alyssa: [00:41:52] Who are we chatting about today?

Rachel: [00:41:54] Okay, today is Rachelle Bergstein. This is the Judy Blume.

Alyssa: [00:41:59] Yeah. Fun, fun. Judy Blume, the Judy Blume.

Rachel: [00:42:04] The Judy Blume. Yeah. What kept coming up for me during this discussion was just like the same thing that comes into my head anytime I hear people discussing banning books or like, don't say gay, for example, like, yeah, ideology like that, or I'm like, what's your fear?

Rachel: [00:42:22] What are you afraid of? What's going to happen? What could happen? And I'm genuinely curious. Like, it's hard.

Alyssa: [00:42:29] Brainwashing kids.

Rachel: [00:42:31] It. Right. But, like, it's hard for me to understand the, like, cognitive process, the thought process that, like, knowing what gay means is going to, like, turn a kid into a gay person. You know what I mean? Like, that's what I don't understand. I know that that's where the book bans and the don't say gay comes from. What I don't understand is like like, that's not how science works.

Alyssa: [00:42:56] Well, and I think about this of, like, if I'm talking to a straight person And they are afraid that we're going to turn kids gay by exposing them to LGBTQ representation. My question for them is like, if you were exposed to this, would you be gay? Do you think that that's how this works, that it's exposure to? Or is it freedom to be whoever the.

Rachel: [00:43:29] Hell you are?

Alyssa: [00:43:30] Exactly.

Rachel: [00:43:32] And embodying who you actually are?

Alyssa: [00:43:35] Correct. And that exposure might result in higher numbers of folks identifying as LGBTQ plus not from conversion, but but.

Rachel: [00:43:49] Because.

Alyssa: [00:43:50] It's.

Rachel: [00:43:50] Safe for them to do so.

Alyssa: [00:43:52] Correct. And knowing that that's a thing that exists in this world. One of my pet peeves in life. This will wade me right into cancel culture. Let's go. Is the idea of straight until proven otherwise? Like, the idea that you have to come out as gay is still wild to me. That we're assuming humans are straight. Unless they tell us otherwise.

Alyssa: [00:44:28] I think about this with sleepover stuff.

Rachel: [00:44:31] When totally.

Alyssa: [00:44:33] I had a friend who was like talking about sleepovers and her daughter is 12 or 13 and they wanted to have the sleepover and she has a bunch of guy friends and they wanted to have a sleepover that was gonna be like, guys were gonna boys were gonna sleep over. And she was like, I don't know what to do here. Like, I feel conflicted and yada yada, and. I wouldn't be surprised if her daughter came out and is not straight at some point. And I was like, I don't think the dudes are who you're thinking about in a sleepover with her. Like, I don't think. But she thought nothing of like, her girlfriends have slept over a bunch of times.

Rachel: [00:45:19] Totally. And I wonder. It makes me wonder, too. Like how much fear of, like, potential pregnancy plays into this, and we're like, if we're talking about queer kids, that is taken out of the equation. And so then, like a lot of the shame that would then potentially be felt by the family should sexual activity happen and a pregnancy result like when that's taken out of the equation, because so much of it, I think is like around shame and around people's perception of your family and how you're raising your children and what values you're instilling into them. And so I think, like even for parents who maybe have an inkling that their kid is queer, clear. I think it's easier to say yes to a same sex sexual relationship.

Alyssa: [00:46:03] Well, you're not saying yes to it. You're turning a blind eye.

Rachel: [00:46:06] True, but I think.

Alyssa: [00:46:08] It's not happening here. No, just. She and her girlfriends are sleeping over.

Rachel: [00:46:12] But I think people don't turn a blind eye to potential P and V, you know what I mean?

Alyssa: [00:46:17] Agreed. Yeah, I think that feels way different. Intense and totally different and serious. And yeah, I just am like, oh, man, it's just wild. How like, afraid we are of humans existing on planet Earth outside of what we know to be true for ourselves.

Rachel: [00:46:39] Totally. And also like, again, just going back to like, it's hard for me to, to understand the thought process because there are so many things that we expose our children to that then it's not like converting who they are. It's not like changing their identity. They just know that it exists. Like it's okay for kids to just know that, like, there are things that can be outside the norm of your nuclear family that are still normal.

Alyssa: [00:47:06] Correct. Yeah. It's this idea that because I believe this thing it's true. And one thing I was actually presenting to teachers recently and one thing that I was sharing about was how your truth is your truth. It is not the truth. It's not the universal truth. It's what you believe. It's what you grew up. And now it feels like, no, this is right. This is the truth. This is the right way to do things, or this is something that is so important for kids to learn. And we were practicing adding on. For me, this is so important for kids to learn. For me, this feels true. For me, this feels right because it's so easy for us to believe things as universally true that are simply true for us.

Rachel: [00:48:00] Yeah. From our social programming.

Alyssa: [00:48:02] Correct. And I'm throwing myself into that boat, too. Like, for all of us, that there are things that I believe are true that really are just true for me. Or I'm like, no, this is the way that I think is the right way to do this. This doesn't mean it is the right way to do this.

Rachel: [00:48:19] Yeah. Another thing that I found interesting was that she and I mean, I guess maybe it was just a product of the time because things are different now, but that Judy Blume, like, received a ton of flak for, like, including a masturbation scene in one of her books. And it's like, y'all, teens masturbate so they can either, like, see themselves.

Alyssa: [00:48:39] Talk about turning a blind eye.

Rachel: [00:48:41] Like teens are gonna masturbate. And they can either have that normalized and take the shame out of it and feel like it's okay to explore your body, or we can try to hide it from them. Or if they find out, it's like, oh no, like, oh, you found out what masturbation is like. Don't do this. It's dirty. It's shameful. Whatever. They're going to do it regardless. So we should probably just let them feel seen and know that it's a normal part of being a person and there's no shame involved. And like, here are some boundaries for how you can do it in our house without making it awkward and uncomfortable for everybody else who lives here 100%.

Alyssa: [00:49:15] And if you just heard that there was a masturbation scene in Judy Blume and teens were reading about it and you threw up in your mouth a little bit. Incredible resources for you are sex positive families, and this is so awkward. The team at this is so Awkward has a membership to where you can ask questions kind of in secret, which I dig because for so many of us this is new. The like. Okay, yeah, sure. It's okay if my kid masturbates when they're a teenager. Like I'm fine with that. That's going to feel new for a lot of people, and you are probably going to throw up in your mouth a little bit. So if that's you got some resources and we can link some other podcast episodes below that we have that might be helpful for you with that. It was comforting for me to hear like, oh, this is just history repeating itself. And we've gone through this before. We'll go through this again. That fear always wins for some folks that they will make decisions from a place of fear. What sucks is that it makes progress so hard because, like right now, under this administration, so much is being wiped out or paused. I think of like research and stuff like that that has been just decimated by these pauses and potentially cancellations that we have to just like come back from.

Alyssa: [00:50:42] We're even thinking about things like Ice raids and how much trauma we're causing that then we're going to have to come back from that. Now we have humans who we are inflicting trauma, and we know how trauma shows up in the body and in behavior. And just thinking of like the work we do at schools. I was chatting with a teacher who is in the Chicago area, and she was just saying how like they're already seeing the trauma effects start to emerge for kids who either have had their parents or loved ones ripped away from their home in the middle of the night, or kids who are just exposed to this happening, to their friends, to their peers, etc. around them. And then the effects that has on the brain and body from a physical health standpoint, the cortisol production and then the mental health standpoint, and then also in school, the academic standpoint. I'm like, what sucks is that the as these things are happening, as fear dictates, we just have to then deal with the ramifications at some point. And that sucks.

Rachel: [00:51:50] Yeah, it feels pretty dark right now.

Alyssa: [00:51:54] So dark.

Rachel: [00:51:54] Every time, like, every news headline is like this. Funding has been cut or like this decision has been reversed or whatever. And I do find it comforting that this is cyclical and like, we can look and see in history that this happens. But yeah, it feels overwhelming thinking about how much we've lost in terms of policy and funding. And it's feels very discouraging in a lot of ways.

Alyssa: [00:52:21] So discouraging. Scary and like.

Rachel: [00:52:24] And dystopian, frankly, right now.

Alyssa: [00:52:26] So dystopian. Yeah. And it can feel like, okay, we're making progress on something and taking steps forward and then to just have the rug pulled out from under you and take steps back. And I think of funding like the PDG funding, the preschool development grant and a lot of what that did, I mean, it was designed for innovation to To happen and to have new systems put in place, like on a systems level in states for early childhood education. And when you strip that away, two things happen. One, you're going to lose programs. The first things to get cut are the newest, which are often innovative and going to have actual systemic change. When we're like, the education system needs to change or whatever. It's like, cool, we were working on that and then you just strip the funding. Also. Then people operate from a place of scarcity so they're not willing to take risks. And when you're not willing to take risks, systems will not change. You innovate the status quo. You cannot innovate. And so that right now I feel fearful of like, what does that mean? Not just now, but in two years and five years, kind of down the road with the decisions we're making now, they won't have just short term effect, although also that they're going to have a longer term effect. And that sucks.

Rachel: [00:53:47] Yeah. There's so much we don't know about what's going to happen from this, which I think is where a lot of my fear and like doom and gloom feeling comes from, because I just feel like it's I can't even really conceptualize the far reaching, like trickle down effects that these things will have. And I feel like we kind of won't know until we're in it.

Alyssa: [00:54:05] Yeah. I mean we think about that with say GE in education and I mean currently as we're speaking special education funding is being cut. And it's really fortunate to be in a gen ed classroom that we have the financial privilege to support him with things, tools and stuff that he'll need in a gen ed classroom to be able to survive or maybe hopefully thrive. And. Who knows how that'll continue to look, how that'll shake out. And most kids are going to experience a lot of harm from that? Yeah, not just even the kids receiving special ed supports and funding also are gen Ed kids students?

Rachel: [00:54:54] Yeah.

Alyssa: [00:54:55] Will be affected by special ed services being cut. I also understand that there have been a lot of Band-Aids on bullet holes, and the desire to see an overarching sweep and change in systems. And I'm just nervous about this approach of, like, gut everything and then figure out where we need stuff and what needs to be rebuilt. I don't know that there's values, alignment of like what needs to be rebuilt and.

Rachel: [00:55:29] Also like what that logistically means for teachers and admin and students on the ground who their old system has been stripped and there is no new system.

Alyssa: [00:55:38] Exactly, exactly. We're just like, we're going to pull funding. We haven't given you new funding yet, or we haven't figured out how we're going to support that yet. Like that is that's terrifying. And systems work. It's so messy. And I hope that conversations like these and looking at how there's been a history of censorship and what that led to, what those ripple effects were, I the dream is that we learn from history, although we know we often don't. But the dream is that we learn from history. Oh man.

Rachel: [00:56:17] Yeah, I and I think too, and we've talked about this in other contexts, but I think part of this is having discussions like this with people in our lives who maybe don't think or believe the way that we do. And being able to stay like, soft and open enough to actually have the conversation.

Alyssa: [00:56:42] Yeah. You know, I've taken this on as one of my tasks this year. It's so funny because I was just at lunch chatting with Tricia about this. I was like, yeah, this is a thing I'm doing because I opened up my Instagram, and one of these conversations for me has been happening in my Instagram DMs from my personal account. And so I had four unread messages from someone, and I was like, I don't have the capacity to respond with compassion or empathy. They're like, I know if I open these four right now, I'm going to be in a place where I'm trying to convince them of something, and I'm not really in a space right now to listen to them. One thing that I have found super challenging in these conversations is misinformation that's now being shared as truth of like this clip or did you see this thing? And I'm like, somebody saying something doesn't make it true. That's not how this works. And at one point in the conversation they said something about the word empathy. And it was like a definition that is not what empathy is. I was like, I'm not gonna lie. As a human who studies this one, it's not what empathy is. And I explained what it was, and the person I was chatting with was like, well, that's one idea for it. I was like, yeah, that's words aren't like that. And I said, do you believe that you can make up your own definition to this? And this person said, yes. And I was like, I don't know where to go from there. Then.

Rachel: [00:58:14] Yeah. Like we're not gonna see eye to eye on this.

Alyssa: [00:58:17] So like, you're just gonna make up a different definition to suit your point of view on, like I don't.

Rachel: [00:58:24] Right. That's not reality.

Alyssa: [00:58:25] No. Right. Right.

Rachel: [00:58:27] So similar type of dynamic. Our pastor spoke out against the Chicago Ice raids this past weekend. And somebody in our congregation. There was a back and forth happening.

Alyssa: [00:58:44] Okay.

Rachel: [00:58:45] And like our pastor, like, prefaced this whole situation with, like, I'm gonna say something that may make a lot of you feel uncomfortable, and I'm not claiming to be like the end all, be all of this situation or like the knowledge around the situation. Like I'm just feeling called to say that, like our government is saying that they're aligned with Jesus, but then they're behaving in a way that is the antithesis.

Alyssa: [00:59:10] Jesus would freakin do.

Rachel: [00:59:11] Like that's so. So that was the preface, right? So we all we knew that something that was going to be uncomfortable for some folks was coming. So anyway, there was this back and forth, and at one point our pastor was like, we have the leader of our nation saying that he hates his enemies and doesn't want good things to happen to them. And this person in the congregation was like, is that actually what he said, though? And everybody was like.

Alyssa: [00:59:39] Yeah, yeah.

Rachel: [00:59:40] And so it's like, we know, sir, that you watched this speech. We we know you did. So you heard him say that. And and somewhere between the hearing and the commitment to long term memories and I.

Alyssa: [00:59:55] This doesn't fit my narrative.

Rachel: [00:59:57] Right. And so I think like that is happening a lot when people are looking at what our government's doing, they're not actually like thinking critically. It's like, let me just see if I can figure out how to redefine this to fit my pre-existing belief system about this.

Alyssa: [01:00:14] Correct.

Rachel: [01:00:15] And then we'll just go from there and we'll just have our own definition of apparently the gospels for this person. So after church, of course, there were discussions happening and I, I couldn't do it because I was I don't even know why. Like I wasn't the one in the conversation, but I was shaking as this back and forth was happening and like our pastor was very calm and collected and was like, I'm happy to chat about this. This doesn't worry me in any capacity. But the person in the congregation was so wound that I was just like, I can't have discussions because I'm like, I get fiery about this kind of stuff. And like, I knew I wasn't going to be able to, like, I was just going to say stuff like, do you know Jesus? Like, why are you here? You know what I mean? And so I, like I just couldn't I couldn't engage because there was going to be nothing like kind or thoughtful. It was going to be like stream of consciousness. You don't know my god kind of a situation.

Rachel: [01:01:20] But yeah it's that like misunderstanding or warping of reality. Yeah. To fit whatever belief system you want to be true.

Alyssa: [01:01:33] Correct. That's it. And I'm just like that's not how this works. Like, you don't just get to make.

Rachel: [01:01:41] Up a new definition to a word.

Alyssa: [01:01:43] Correct, or say things like, I've been researching this for years, just like you've been doing research in child development. And I was like, oh, you you applied for research with the IRB and like went through an actual research study.

Rachel: [01:01:56] Oh, so.

Alyssa: [01:01:56] When.

Rachel: [01:01:57] You say.

Alyssa: [01:01:58] That things on social media.

Rachel: [01:02:00] That's what it is. You did a lit review on Instagram, okay. That's all you did. It was not one piece of peer reviewed journalism in that lit review, but you did one on social. Social media has changed so much of the landscape of how we consume information, and how information is spread, and how quickly misinformation can be spread.

Rachel: [01:02:26] And we don't yet have the skill set as, like a culture as a whole to navigate how widespread misinformation is.

Alyssa: [01:02:40] What an uplifting chat. I think. I, I do feel like it's not I'm not going to end this in an uplifting space. I don't think, because I really think about I came into this year being like, all right, I got to do some pause. I'm in my own bubble, and I got to do some learning and understanding of what other people are consuming or hearing or believing, because I don't think that they're bad people. I don't think that they hate other people. I don't think that people want ill will for other folks. And so I was like, how are we getting there? Right? Like, what is this disconnect between us both hearing the same thing and having totally different takeaways from it? And I'm now ten months in to my discovery, and I'm not feeling any hope in this current part of it.

Rachel: [01:03:39] Has it been a sad discovery?

Alyssa: [01:03:41] Yeah, right. It's things like, oh, they can make up their own definition, or you're just sharing random clips from social media that you now believe to be true to, like, paint the picture of what you believe. And I don't know where we go from there. Like, I don't know, in a world where social media exists and it's going to I don't feel hopeful right now about the divide. We currently live in, the polarized world we live in.

Rachel: [01:04:17] I also don't feel hopeful. I will say that a large part of my community is outside of my value system.

Rachel: [01:04:31] And I will say that that ongoing exposure, the situation at church last weekend was a bad example, but outside of that, I feel like I have gotten better at controlling the fire that wants to come out and trying to understand. And and sometimes there have been times where I am able to come to an understanding with somebody. Yeah. But there are a lot of times where I still can't and where I leave the conversation truly feeling like there's cognitive dissonance at play somewhere, like, yeah, I can't wrap my head around it.

Alyssa: [01:05:16] Yeah. Well, in the part of me that just wants to, like, do the fixer, the problem solver. I think just feels like I don't know what to do next. Like, I don't know how to solve this problem. And what I keep coming back to is have impact where you can have impact. And it has led me just like deeper and deeper into this work with schools like if we can support teachers to support kids in understanding how their brains and bodies work, they can have access to more emotional intelligence and regulation, which in turn, I think will allow them to be able to be practitioners of reflective practice and being able to navigate conflict with each other and pause and respond and hear instead of react. And it has just led me back continuously to like, we need this work more than I think I've ever needed to do this work. And in the last ten days of that travel, I got to support Either directly or indirectly through their teachers. Thousands of kids in ten days. And I was like, okay, we're gonna just keep doing that. We're going to keep showing up and having impact where we can have impact.

Rachel: [01:06:46] I do actually feel hopeful when I think about kids.

Alyssa: [01:06:49] Kids are the best.

Rachel: [01:06:51] Yeah, I just do feel hopeful when I think about the work that we're doing. And I really came to this work for my children, and now I am at a place where I know that this is valuable for all children, and I feel fired up by that. And I do as much gloom and doom as there is in this world. I do feel like that is a place where we can make impact. We are making impact, and that does give me hope and lifts me out of the darkness of the media.

Alyssa: [01:07:26] Yeah, 100%. Agreed. Agreed. So that's it. We're going to stay the course here at seed and continue to have impact where we can impact. And who. If you want to bring this work to your child's school, holler at us.

Rachel: [01:07:43] Let us know.

Alyssa: [01:07:45] Head to the website org. Happy to help.

Alyssa: [01:07:51] Thanks for tuning in to Voices of Your Village. Check out the transcript at Voices of Your Village.com. Did you know that we have a special community over on Instagram hanging out every day with more free content? Come join us at CDC. Take a screenshot of you tuning in, share it on the gram and tag CDC to let me know your key takeaway. If you're digging this podcast, make sure to subscribe so you don't miss an episode. We love collaborating with you to raise emotionally intelligent humans.