Breaking Cycles from our Childhood with Dr. Mariel Buqué: Round Two

Disclaimer: This transcript was generated with the help of AI and may contain minor errors or inconsistencies. Please refer to the audio for the most accurate representation of the conversation.

[00:00:00] Alyssa: You're listening to Voices of Your Village, and today we are sharing an episode that we recorded a little while ago with Dr. Mariel Buqué about breaking cycles from our childhood. Let's get real. This can be a doozy and her book slays at teaching us how to do this. It's called Break the Cycle. It's a book that focuses on healing wounds of intergenerational trauma.

[00:00:26] We all come to adulthood with different things from our childhood that we might wanna pass on to our kids and carry forward, and some things that we don't wanna pass on or carry forward. She helps us navigate what this looks like in practice. She's brilliant and I'm so jazzed to share this episode again, and then get to share the breakdown afterward with Rach.

[00:00:50] Stay tuned for the breakdown at the end. All right, folks, let's dive in.

[00:00:59] Hey there. I'm Alyssa Blask Campbell. I'm a mom with a master's degree in early childhood education and co-creator of the Collaborative Emotion Processing Method. I'm here to walk alongside you through the messy, vulnerable parts of being humans, raising other humans with deep thoughts and actionable tips.

[00:01:15] Let's dive in together.

[00:01:21] Hello, Dr. Mariel. How are you? 

[00:01:25] Dr. Mariel Buqué: I'm doing well my friend. I'm so excited to be in conversation with you. 

[00:01:31] Alyssa: Likewise, likewise. You have written the book we all need, so I'm excited to get to dive into it. Um, breaking cycles is no joke. 

[00:01:43] Dr. Mariel Buqué: Yeah. It's hard work. 

[00:01:45] Alyssa: It's hard work and we talk so much about it in our community around like breaking cycles while parenting or while teaching, while interacting with tiny humans who trigger a lot of those things that come up from our.

[00:02:01] Dr. Mariel Buqué: I always say it's like it's the process of healing that is double the work and double the reward because it's heavy. And especially if you have those dual roles and you, you have an impact on the next generation already. It can make the work feel like you're like working twice as hard, but when you see the ways in which it impacts their little souls, at the same time, it's impacting your soul and your little inner child that's still existing in you.

[00:02:30] It can be doubly rewarding as well. 

[00:02:33] Alyssa: Yeah. I think for me sometimes it feels like a race against the clock. Where I'm like, oh, I have these tiny little faces and ears listening and looking and, and I'm dropping the ball here. I'm dropping the ball there. And I think for a lot of us, as as intergenerational, like healing and trauma has come more into the zeitgeist, which is rad that this is being talked about in the way that it is now.

[00:03:01] I think for a lot of us that are in it and parenting or teaching or raising kids, it's like, oh shoot, what have I already messed up? How do I get back from that? And has led to almost like this. Perfection, right? This like desire to be perfect. So I'm curious to hear your thoughts around as we are breaking cycles and committing to like, okay, there are certain things from our childhood that we don't wanna repeat, that we do want to shift or change.

[00:03:32] What does that look like in the context of perfection? 

[00:03:37] Dr. Mariel Buqué: Hmm. Wow. You know, perfection is a myth. So it isn't anything that any one parent in the entire humanity of parenthood has ever achieved because it is a false goal. So when we set that expectation for ourselves in orienting these little humans into the world, it, what it does is that it invites in the element of fear and worry that actually gets in the way of the attunement that can be taken place in that moment with your child.

[00:04:15] So what I always urge parents to do who are kind of focused on that looped thought of, did I mess them up? Is, 

[00:04:25] Alyssa: am I currently actively messing them up? 

[00:04:28] Dr. Mariel Buqué: Mm-hmm. And really hyper focusing even on the one instance in which you did something that could have triggered an inner child wound, and all of a sudden you feel like, okay, that's it.

[00:04:38] They're not okay. It's a very deterministic way of looking at parenthood. It's believing that one act or, you know, a series of acts can actually like, destroy this little human and not taking into account the incredible consequence of repair, of providing love and provid providing a foundation where emotions can be spoken about.

[00:05:05] Even if the emotions that are coming up for this little human are the emotions that are the consequence of how you behaved. So there is a very like deterministic quality to those kinds of thoughts that are not really real. Yes, your, the parenting style that you adopt and the parenting qualities that you enact will have some sort of an impact, but so will the repair.

[00:05:31] So will the, uh, moments in which I. You humbly approach your child regardless of their age, and offer an apology and offer a reflection of where your mental state was and help them to see your humanity in that moment so that they can also kind of mirror their own humanity with yours. 

[00:05:53] Alyssa: I love that so much.

[00:05:54] And I think personally, like, gosh, I'm so good at reflecting back and seeing all the ways that I repeated cycles that I know from my childhood. I'm not trying to repeat, but it's not as readily available in my brain at the end of the day of all the things I'm like, oh yeah, but I did this differently than I was raised.

[00:06:13] And like, that's rad. Like there are steps forward. I have to like really consciously, actively work to remember and focus on those parts too. And, and I'm, I, I think that goes along with the like perfectionism myth. 'cause I don't think there's a world in which, all right, I'm gonna break some cycles. And we're like, and I'm breaking all of them today.

[00:06:33] And that it is gonna be like, kind of chipping away. I feel like, alright, what's coming up here? And we don't have the capacity every day, all day to act with intention. 

[00:06:49] Dr. Mariel Buqué: You know what I mean? I always say Absolutely I do. And I, I think that that's a part of just being human. And we, we also have to remember, you know, when we're breaking cycles, we are disrupting and chipping away, as you say, at decades, sometimes hundreds of years of parenting conditioning.

[00:07:10] Like the ways that, you know, our parents, our grandparents, great grandparents, great great grandparents have identified methods of parenting that have been translated forward and methods of communication even that have been forwarded. And when we're trying to disrupt, when we're now having a more open dialogue with our child versus how we were raised where children were seen but not heard.

[00:07:35] Like you knew that they were like playing somewhere and you saw them, but they didn't have a voice and active voice and dialogue with you, then we have to like. We, we have to acknowledge the fact that just in having conversations about emotions with our children are already ways in which cycles can be broken that have these ginormous patterns.

[00:07:57] But even if you talk down to your child on any given day and forget that there is a bilateral communication process, that compassion needs to come in in those moments and, and you have to allow yourself a moment of grace because you're literally disrupting decades and even hundreds of years of conditioned communication.

[00:08:17] Alyssa: Yes, and I love this about your work where you talk about like intergenerational nervous system, right? I just, just having a conversation with a friend who has been doing a lot of work on cycle breaking and healing and intergenerational trauma and then was living unexpectedly with her family, her partner and kids were living with her parents for a chunk of time and she was like, oh my gosh, it's so much harder to do this work under this roof where it just like, I can see it.

[00:08:55] All day long and it's being repeated, and now I see it with my kids. And we were talking about this, the like intergenerational nervous system and she was like, oh, I see things that my mom does. And I'm like, oh, that I have that. Like, that is a reaction for my nervous system specifically. Uh, anxiety had come up, like come around certain safety things and whatever, and she's like, I've been diving into my own anxiety.

[00:09:19] And then I just like see it. It's just like in front of my face, like, aha, this is where this comes from. 

[00:09:24] Mm-hmm. 

[00:09:25] And that impact, can you speak to the intergenerational nervous system? 

[00:09:29] Dr. Mariel Buqué: Yeah. It's so enlightening when we can enter that moment of realization that nervous systems can have generational ties.

[00:09:39] Right. The intergenerational nervous system is as I've like. Identified it as one in which there are both biological elements and psychological elements. So the biological elements are, you know, that I, I think a lot of people actually don't know that we were actually a tiny microscopic little cell developing inside of our grandmother's wombs, not our mother mother's rooms.

[00:10:04] I know. And, and the, the insight that can come from that, from an a biological perspective, from a genetic perspective, the understanding that when our grandmothers, both on the maternal and paternal side, were experiencing any stress in their environment while they were pregnant at five months and beyond.

[00:10:25] Our parent was actually taking in a lot of those cues of, uh oh, something doesn't feel safe. Something's really stressful here because there were hormones that were filtering into their bloodstream from the person that was pregnant, the grandmother. And that to make matters even more interesting because at five months gestation, we were already developed into a, a tiny little microscopic cell, a precursor sex cell, it's called, that we ourselves were also a part of that ingesting of stress hormones and the cues, the social cues, that something didn't feel safe.

[00:11:03] It's so wild. I know, and, and the fact that we were in essence, like three bodies existing in one, is it's such an important finding in the understanding of emotions and intergenerational transmissions of emotions. But then fast forward when we're born, now we have a nervous system that, let's say, because it existed in chronic trauma or stress inside of our, our grandmother's womb.

[00:11:29] And, and then also now our mother perhaps, was also feeling chronic trauma and chronic stress for a period of her time, um, and life. Now we are born with these emotional vulnerabilities like these, these tender points in our emotional makeup. And fast forward to, we're 10 years old. And we got some bad grades in math.

[00:11:56] Now our mother is yelling at us because she is feeling like her nervous system is in a state of alert. It's stressed. And so her default go-to is to yell because we have four defaults, right? Fight, flight, freezer, fawn, and you. Your tender, little underdeveloped nervous system is feeling so frightened and is fleeing.

[00:12:20] So you like run to your room, right? However, you are living in a multi-generational home much like your friend was. And grandma opens the door and says, please, just no more, just stop. Because she's people pleasing, she's appeasing. She is now in a FA response. So at this moment you have three generations of overactive nervous system.

[00:12:45] One that is in a fond response, grandma, one that is in a fight response, mom, one that is in a flea response. You and all three are in essence, like in this contagion effect of stress. At the same moment, however, all three of you actually coexisted in one body at once and have like this similar constellation of how your emotions have been formed in the similar tenderness.

[00:13:10] And now that you're all in external bodies, all separate bodies, you're still feeding off of each other's threat and alert system in day-to-day life. And that's in essence what I see as the intergenerational nervous system. It's part biological because of our formation and part psychological, because of all the interactions that we have with one another that in essence get collectively triggered.

[00:13:34] Alyssa: First of all, Emily listening, I'm like, gosh, why don't we support moms more? Uh, just like systemically thinking like in utero, all that, like how much it matters and how much we just don't have supports and systems in place. 

[00:13:48] Mm-hmm. 

[00:13:49] Which like tabled for another conversation, but that came up for me immediately.

[00:13:54] Yeah. And then this idea when we're looking at the nervous system and the nervous system reactions, right. Those four, um, fight, flight, freeze, and fawn. I think so often for us on the outside, we don't necessarily connect that these are all stress responses, right? So when the child flees and the mom is yelling and in fight mode and the grandma comes in, in that fawn mode, that everyone is dysregulated, it's just a different expression of the same internal experience.

[00:14:27] Dr. Mariel Buqué: Mm-hmm. Like internally, inside the nervous system, the nervous system is in essence. In all three generations reflecting that something doesn't feel safe. Yes. The nervous system is a bit more, um, simple, right? Like there are external words, external context, like we're talking about now homework, right? Like that's a different context than if somebody's talking about having suffered an accident.

[00:14:55] But the internal mechanism of the nervous system for each one of these people is simply saying, something doesn't feel safe. I must do something to survive this moment. Yes. 

[00:15:09] Alyssa: Yeah. And I think some of them are more. Socially acceptable, right? Like freeze for instance. I typically fall into like freeze or flea modes.

[00:15:20] And because I don't often go into fight mode, I think it can look on the surface as though I'm calm, as though I'm regulated and it seems more socially acceptable than if I'm yelling at my child. But I can dissociate real fast, you know, I can just like disconnect. And I think something that's so interesting about this is that we have, in the parenting world, in an education given a lot of attention to fight mode and I think it can be harder to A, identify these others and also recognize that.

[00:15:57] There's harm in all of them. And so if you grew up in a household, like I didn't grow up in a household with someone who yelled a whole lot. And so when I started to do this work and I'm looking back, I'm like, yeah, I mean not super traumatic, whatever. And then as I started to break down, oh no, there, there were definitely a lot of stress responses.

[00:16:17] It just wasn't fight mode. But that took me a little while to realize the impact that it had had on me. Just because they weren't yelling doesn't mean I felt safe. 

[00:16:31] Dr. Mariel Buqué: Mm, wow. Absolutely. Because to in essence, like give another scenario, like a, a child could feel a lack of safety based on what is not given.

[00:16:41] Because we understand that one of the adverse childhood experiences is a point of neglect, right? And neglect can happen, you know, on multiple levels. It could literally be that a child is just not receiving enough of the attunement care and emotional orientation as their little tiny nervous system needs, right?

[00:17:01] Yeah. Um, it's not necessarily that a parent like completely went away, you know, and never came back like it. That's an extreme version of how neglect can take place, but it can look like many things. And for some of us, you know, some of our parents and older generations were also socialized to believe that you're supposed to.

[00:17:20] Engage with a child that's crying in certain ways that could have led to that neglect wound. 

[00:17:25] Yeah. 

[00:17:26] And it would've been that they basically wouldn't be present enough and they themselves were disconnected, detached. Distanced. Right. And would've in essence, allowed for the surfacing of a wound to take place.

[00:17:40] Um. But it isn't that they lashed out and yelled or that they resorted to corporal punishment. It wasn't any of those externalized versions of how stress can, you know, manifest. But it was a more internalized attachment that also left to some sort of a wounding. 

[00:17:56] Alyssa: I think we still see a lot of this today, I would say, especially in our school systems of like ignore the behavior.

[00:18:02] We don't wanna see more of and praise or acknowledge the behaviors we do wanna see more of. And I think in that. In the ignoring part, we know that behavior's a communication of a need, right? And so when kids, I think especially when the need is an emotional need, we break down in our work the difference between sensory needs and emotional needs.

[00:18:22] Sensory being like, I'm hungry, I'm tired, right? Like if a kid was hungry or they were tired, I wouldn't be like, maybe if I don't feed them, that'll go away, right? Like, that feels bonkers to say. But we do this with emotional needs. We do it with like they're asking for attention. They're asking for connection or inclusion or belonging and or like if I don't feed into that attention seeking behavior, it'll go away.

[00:18:45] They won't be asking for it in that way that it feels needy or high maintenance. And I think we do this a lot still in our systems today, of like ignoring behaviors from kids when they're saying, I have a need. I need to feel connected, I need to feel seen. And we systematically say. Don't pour into that.

[00:19:08] Dr. Mariel Buqué: Mm-hmm. Yeah. And it's a shame because we haven't had, um, an intentional process for being able to be a container for children that sometimes don't have that container at home. Yeah. Um, I also worked in the school system for some time and I trained in the school system during my doctoral years, and I remember when in my training itself, I was actually positioned to go to different schools all the way from K through 12, and I would do.

[00:19:40] Some therapy groups, some assessments, some um, consultative work with teachers to, um, help them with students that were identified as having some behavioral difficulties. And I would sit in a classroom and I would, uh, offer observation and then some recommendations. And kind of on the other end of that, I actually.

[00:20:03] Also realize that there are some students that sometimes feel like they're very much in the FA response and are high appeasers and, and are like, yeah, little, you know, like maybe more tender than it's so tender that it kind of raised my spidey senses. Sure. It's like, hmm. And, and because they're like. The good student and the good, you know, like they get overlooked too.

[00:20:28] Yeah. Because we're seeing the behaviors that we all love to see, but at such an extreme because they are so afraid of not receiving that confirmation, affirmation, love, and it's their response. So I also try to make teachers aware of those kinds of behaviors and, and try and kind of like work with the students that fly under the radar because they're not exhibiting the kinds of behaviors that are usually like flagged by the system as needing attention.

[00:20:58] Alyssa: Totally not in that fight response or flee. And I feel like fight and flea get most of our attention. Mm-hmm. Um, and freeze and fawn often don't, we're like, oh, this kid's so easy. This is great. They've got it together. Yeah. I have so much compassion for those humans. Like a few of them just popped into my head from, from my own teaching.

[00:21:17] And I think it can show up down the road as like, these kids often have high anxiety because they're so afraid of making a mistake, of disappointing someone, of not feeling loved or worthy or like they belong and it lives so inside of them for so long. Mm-hmm. And then eventually comes out in those physical ways that we often see with anxiety when it's been.

[00:21:41] Living inside for so long. 

[00:21:43] Dr. Mariel Buqué: Yeah. And they become the adults eventually. Yeah. That are in search of their emotions are in search of healing, are now newly aware that they have inner child wounds and that that some of those, you know, are situated in the phone response and people who these inequalities and that a lot of that, had it been attended to by both people at home and people in the school system would've been something that could have been sorted through before it got into a cemented way of being.

[00:22:14] Alyssa: Absolutely. What's one skill that we could maybe have in our back pocket if we wanted to start breaking cycles today? 

[00:22:23] Dr. Mariel Buqué: Hmm. You know, one of my favorite skills that I offer, um, even within my work with clients is the skill that I call still. And as you know, in therapy we love acronyms. And so, um, this one I have actually used with kids as well.

[00:22:42] And it's been incredibly effective, uh, through the generations of clients that I've had and still actually stands for Stop Temperature, inhale, lay launch. And it is a skill that helps with emotion regulation, but also helps with stimulating the endorphins within the body to really kind of like help for a much easier nervous system restoration and rest, and an increase in the cortical brain regions capacities to then sort through problem solving and emotions in a way that feels more aligned with what the person desires could happen.

[00:23:22] Stop is basically just imagining a stop sign and really, uh, identifying how a person needs to stop and freeze in place and like not do anything else. Not say anything else, just freeze. Tea is temperature, which is probably my favorite one, and one that I would actually like. When I would have either therapy or when I would be in the classroom, I would actually, um, escort the child, um, to the restroom and they would go into the bathroom and then splash cold water on their face.

[00:23:50] Um, sometimes we would actually have like those reusable like ice cube trays that have like the, the ice in them or the water in inside of a plastic, and it would be ice cold. And we would have the children hold them. And these experiences would actually help with increasing those endorphins and also really kind of drive a person's thoughts from whatever was happening into the sensation that they're now experiencing.

[00:24:17] So it, it's not only regulatory in that it also helps increase those endorphins, but it, it actually redirects the mind. Um, inhale is in essence. Inhaling deep breaths and doing so if possible for a period of at least five minutes, which is generally the timeframe that the nervous system needs to really calm down, especially if the tiny humans have big emotions and they need a little bit extra time.

[00:24:45] And even us big humans who need a little extra time because we just have emotions that are also like very big and outpour into our world in in big ways. The first L is lay, so it's in essence like go sit down somewhere. That's a little bit. Removed from the situation or go lay down if you're at home and just give yourself an opportunity to feel a genuine pause and distance and then launches a re-engagement.

[00:25:13] It's coming back into the situation. It's coming back into the classroom. It's coming back into the conversation and saying what you need to say from a place of a more regulated nervous system because we've already done both the biological and psychological work to help you come back to a place that's more steady.

[00:25:32] Alyssa: Okay, love this. It is so in alignment with our work and I think we'll like hit home for a lot of our village. We talk a lot about sensory regulation and emotion processing and how they're separate and combined, right? Like I. When we're looking at that sensory piece, like the cold water, the like, how do we get, how do I support my nervous system right now?

[00:25:55] And once I do, it doesn't mean that I stop having this feeling, but it allows me to be with the feeling without being consumed by the feeling. And when I'm looking at your work, I think this is such a huge part of it. One of my biggest triggers with kids is defiance when they like stare me in the face and they do exactly what they know they're not supposed to do.

[00:26:18] And it feels in that moment like they are operating from self-control. And it was definitely not allowed in my childhood, right? Like this was a big one in my household of like respect, which was often code for obedience. And when these moments happen, for me it's an immediate like. I go inside like I'm on fire, right?

[00:26:43] Mm-hmm. And when I can notice this in the moment and really focus on that nervous system regulation of like stopping and doing the temperature work and inhaling really regulating my nervous system, it then allows me to even notice the trigger part of like, what's really coming up here. Mm-hmm. But if we don't walk through those first three parts of your still acronym, I can't access the like, oh, this is a defiance trigger.

[00:27:14] Right? Like, it, it's so hard to get to that part if we don't first do the nervous system work. But I think for a lot of us, we wanna jump to that part, right? Like, what's coming up for me and what is this? And really slowing down and focusing on our nervous system first is something I think that's often missed.

[00:27:32] Dr. Mariel Buqué: I'm excited that, you know, to hear your feedback about it. Um, it's really. Wonderful, because I was actually. In part, curious to hear how people would be receiving the work when the work had that nervous system element in it. So, you know, because the field of psychology especially has been so heady, it's been so mind focused and I've wondered for so long, you know, like, how are people gonna receive this when I'm asking them, Hey, we also have to tune into your body.

[00:28:06] And the fact that, you know, the body also holds a lot. Of not just the memory of what's happening to us, but also the actual recipe for us to be able to heal. So I love to hear this. 

[00:28:19] Alyssa: Yeah, it's huge. And I think we, we hear the same thing where like it was something I was nervous about, tiny human speaking emotions.

[00:28:25] Our whole part, one of the book is about the nervous system and about us as adults. And what people want is part two. They're like, tell me what to say to my kid in the moment. Tell me what to do to make this thing stop. And I'm like, totally, we're gonna get there and you won't be able to apply it. It won't be as effective.

[00:28:44] You won't actually connect with the child in front of you. You won't be authentically able to embody this without the nervous system part of it. And I think the challenge with it as like a sell to people is that it's not a quick fix. What we often want is like a script. You know, we're so used to like, I can Amazon prime this thing to myself in two days, right?

[00:29:08] That like the idea of five day shipping is bonkers. So for us, looking at like, yeah, it takes practice and that it is a practice to learn how to be in our bodies and observe what's happening in our bodies and regulate our nervous system in order to access the heady part of it. 

[00:29:34] Dr. Mariel Buqué: I always say that, you know, this work buys us time because when we're talking about being reactionary, we're talking about there is a trigger and then there's a trigger response that comes almost automatically, and it's a beautiful gift to be able to offer us two to three seconds to just say, uh oh wait.

[00:29:54] Still, let me just go back into what I, what I need to do for myself so that then I can come back into this and have that point of insight. Oh, it's my abandonment wound. Oh, it's, you know. Mm-hmm. It's, it's, um, the ways in which, you know, I was chronically suppressed as a child and my voice wasn't heard, and I'm feeling like my voice isn't being heard now because it's not being attended to.

[00:30:18] Oh my goodness. But those points of insight can't come from a survival mode because survival is just telling you there's a threat. You must survive the threat. I 

[00:30:29] Alyssa: think the hardest skill to hone is finding that pause between reaction and response. 

[00:30:36] Dr. Mariel Buqué: Yeah. And, and I think it's also one of the skills that when it's done with more frequency, because again, perfection is a myth, but when we can do it, more often than not, it elicits so much pride.

[00:30:49] Oh, it's the best. Yeah. It's amazing. 

[00:30:52] Alyssa: Yeah. 

[00:30:52] Dr. Mariel Buqué: Because you're like, not only are you like, oh goodness, I, I did something that I know is gonna impact this little soul in a way that aligns with what I desire for them. And simultaneously, wow, I did that. So it's like twofold. It's amazing. A hundred percent. 

[00:31:08] Alyssa: I did that and I modeled it and like then it just like keeps going, right?

[00:31:12] Like I was saying, it feels like sometimes a race against the clock where you've got these eyes and ears on you while you're healing and that can feel heavy. And then when you have these little wins, I try to really let myself celebrate them of like, Alyssa, you did that, right? Like you found that pause.

[00:31:33] And in the same way that when you lost your goal, you beat yourself up over it. Like in this instance you get to celebrate this, like you did this and he's watching and he's learning. And now I have a two and a half year old. And now he will ask like, mama, what are you doing? And I'll let him know like, oh, I have to calm my body so that I can help you.

[00:31:58] And just even being able to like have that conversation with someone at two, I'm like, gosh, little Alyssa would've killed for that. You know, like that was nowhere near my experience. And to see that as like already breaking some cycles and allowing myself to, I think celebrate those wins is so huge. 

[00:32:22] Dr. Mariel Buqué: It is and what parent doesn't deserve that, you know, like that moment to Right.

[00:32:29] Because it's, it's such an intergenerational moment. Um, I always say that those moments when we're able to see the little human in front of us and almost see kind of the reflection of our own little human from way back then, that's a moment of intergenerational healing. That's a moment in which we see how we wish someone would've responded to us in moments like this.

[00:32:52] And we can reflect that forward and kids will remember that. Mm-hmm. They will remember how you made them feel. They will remember what you modeled. And, and so there is a lot of gaining that can be had in moments like that. 

[00:33:07] Alyssa: I agree so, so much, and I'm so excited to have your book out into the world so that folks can have a place to turn to say like, how do I break these cycles?

[00:33:18] What does this look like? Uh, a question that I think so many of us ask all the time's, like, I want to do this. And what does it look like in practice? Where can people find you? Follow you snag your book. Can you repeat the title for us? 

[00:33:34] Dr. Mariel Buqué: Yes. Uh, so the book is called Break the Cycle, A Guide to Healing Intergenerational Trauma.

[00:33:41] And it is very explicitly that it's a guide, it's a companion, uh, to help. All of us through the process of just disrupting these cycles and, and building a legacy of abundance in our lives and our children's lives. And their children's lives. And, and also, you know, maybe even pouring a little back to our parents and grandparents if they're still alive and the people that still, you know, could have used even a little microscopic tiny piece of that healing back.

[00:34:11] Hmm. 

[00:34:11] The book can be found anywhere books are sold. It's literally everywhere. And it can also be found at drmarielBuqué.com. And my name is also my handle on social, uh, LinkedIn, mostly at Dr. Mariel Buqué. 

[00:34:28] Alyssa: Awesome, and we'll link to all of that. For all the parents and teachers out there who are like listening on the go or while they do dishes or all that jazz.

[00:34:37] Um, if you head to voices of your village.com, you can find all of that information there. Thank you so much for writing this book, for doing this work and for putting it out into the world for all of us. 

[00:34:50] Dr. Mariel Buqué: Yes. Thank you so much for giving space for us to talk about generational healing. I really hope that it reaches the hearts and homes of everyone that needs this work and that we can really create almost like a collective legacy that is different in the generations to come.

[00:35:06] Alyssa: Agreed. I think your impact will go far beyond what you realize. Stay tuned after this note from our sponsors. Rach and I will be right back with the breakdown.

[00:35:20] Yeah, so it was this armchair expert interview with this dude who studied like metabolism, but like essentially it was the breakdown of why different bodies need different things, that there isn't one prescriptive thing of like, everybody should eat this and move of this amount and whatever, whatever.

[00:35:37] And it was like culturally responsive, right? Of like, what do, what do you need within this culture for your body to thrive is gonna be different and, and what is your body used to getting in this culture? And those sorts of things. And they talked about how. Walking, like there's some cultures where folks walk a ton, but you're, you're not burning the same amount of calories as folks who culturally typically walk less.

[00:36:10] And then if they walked a fra say, say, typically there's a culture where they're walking at least 10 miles a day, right? Mm-hmm. Just in, in their daily life. And then there's a culture where somebody typically walks three miles a day. When that person walks those three miles, they are burning more calories per mile than the person walking 10 miles a day.

[00:36:32] Because your body adapts. It's very adaptive. That's right. Yeah. That's right. Yeah. And I was like, oh, that's so interesting. The like adaptation piece for your body to be like, oh, we have to conserve. Right? And how, like if you go from, I'm walking three miles a day to. I just went on this trip where all of a sudden I went from, I generally walk four or five miles a day to, I was walking like seven, eight miles a day and I like gained weight on the trip.

[00:37:01] I, my muscles and joints feel sore. I got shin splints at one point. I mean, I was walking in heels for a lot of it. Okay. That is 

[00:37:10] Rachel: like straight to jail behavior. No wonder you got shin splints 

[00:37:13] Alyssa: and they were like stilettos. It was, you know, just, uh, but yeah, I'm usually walking in like sneakers, like walking shoes and.

[00:37:24] What am I 85? Walking shoes. Um, 

[00:37:27] Rachel: but you need walking shoes. Walking shoes are necessary. Also, this is kind of a hill that I will die on, so there's, you might regret bringing this up with me. No, I'm already here for 

[00:37:40] Alyssa: this. 

[00:37:40] Rachel: Okay. So traditional, like dieting is so bad for metabolism. Totally. Like, because your body goes into conservation, it, it's like, yes, it adapts to that lower calorie intake and that becomes your new maintenance.

[00:37:58] Like your deficit becomes your new maintenance. And then if you wanna go back to eating how you used to eat, you're going to gain weight and you get stuck in the cycle where you're eating less and less and less. Uh, this is totally like a thing for me because I have like, if friends are like, yeah, I'm.

[00:38:14] I'm, you know, eating in this many calories. I'm like, that's not even enough calories for your organs to function. Like we, like, we gotta sit down and talk about this. This is not okay. You know, it's like the, and I understand wanting to lose weight, like I was in a body that I didn't feel comfortable in.

[00:38:33] Two years ago I was in a body that I didn't feel comfortable in. My PCP very kindly told me that I was overweight and I was like, okay, I've gotta do something about this. Um, which obviously BMI is garbage. And that also could be a whole, but I remember 

[00:38:49] Alyssa: you sending me a text, it was like a screenshot of a picture of a shower or something you'd gone to and you were like, is this really what my body looks like?

[00:38:58] Rachel: Yeah. It was, um, postpartum depression and COVID had just kind of taken its toll, we'll say. Sure. It's also 

[00:39:05] Alyssa: one of those things where like. I think it's, first of all, there's like the body dysmorphia piece of this. And then also I was like, yeah, that's what your body looks like. But it, I never had looked at your body and been like, whoa, we gotta do something about this.

[00:39:22] Right. Like, it was so not our perspectives of me saying yes, were very different. 

[00:39:29] Rachel: Totally. Well also I have to preface this by saying like, I had an eating disorder as a team, correct. Um, I have body dysmorphia. I am can be very hypercritical of my body. And when I was in that body, that larger body, um, I didn't feel comfortable.

[00:39:49] I didn't feel good. Sure. Um, I have like chronic pain from chemo and my joints were not happy. Like things were just. Not where I wanted them to be. 

[00:39:58] Alyssa: Yeah. 

[00:39:59] Rachel: And I also 

[00:39:59] Alyssa: also, you also weren't doing things like lifting weights or things like that. Well, when I was emotionally 

[00:40:04] Rachel: eating, like it was my job. 

[00:40:06] Alyssa: Right, right, right.

[00:40:06] And so I, what I've observed in the last two years is you really saying like, I want to be stronger. I wanna feel better in my body. And that's a shift from other conversations you've had with yourself out loud, around us over, you know, I've known you 13 years at this point. Sure. Yeah. And that's been really rad to get to witness that shift in conversation with yourself out loud in front of us.

[00:40:36] Rachel: Totally. There was certainly a time where like it was my goal to just be small. 

[00:40:40] Alyssa: Yeah. 

[00:40:40] Rachel: Um, and I don't feel that way at all anymore. And now that I understand more of the like science of metabolism, I'm just like, wow. So much of what we're told about how to eat for health is very misguided. Um, so my goal in this life now is to build muscle and eat as much food as I want to and feel good eating, and that's what I do.

[00:41:05] Um, but the science of metabolism is fascinating because what the best way to change your body composition long-term is to go into these really mini deficits for like a really short period of time and then go back to maintenance and kind of do that in a cycle so that you're training your metabolism not to adapt to that.

[00:41:26] Lower calorie intake. 'cause who wants to live at a lower calorie intake, I think. No, but I think 

[00:41:31] Alyssa: what's tricky here, and this is what came up in the podcast episode, was that because everybody's caloric deficit is actually different. Oh, 

[00:41:39] Rachel: absolutely. 

[00:41:40] Alyssa: If we're like, you're gonna burn this amount of calories doing this exercise, it's like that's true for one cultural context, right?

[00:41:47] Yes. So even finding and one body Correct. Like even finding like what is your caloric deficit is. As he was saying, like print near impossible without intensive like labs and support Yeah. Have, yeah. A body scan. That's right. Yeah. 'cause you would have to know how much, how many calories does everything that I am doing in my body burn to even know what is my caloric deficit?

[00:42:18] Rachel: Totally. And like, that's such 

[00:42:20] Alyssa: a headache. Oh my God, I'm not just like 10 outta 10 when things are that hard. I'm like, no, totally hate, I'm not doing it. That's how, that's how my approach my whole life. A hundred percent. I hate, that's my to all things in life though, in business and everything in life. If it was gonna be too hard, I was just like, this is not worth it.

[00:42:41] I either have gotta create a more efficient system for this, or I'm just not gonna do this thing. Right. Oh, for sure. I have found this with like lifting weights. One thing for me is if. Because I'd set out to, I, I, you know, I've been really into how do I support my body for perimenopause, menopause, and the like, muscle piece is where for bone density.

[00:43:07] Yes, that's right. And I have realized for myself, it's so hard for me to do something a few times a week. It's way easier for me to do something every day. Mm-hmm. Right? Mm-hmm. Like if something is just built into my routine, even if it's gonna be shorter chunks of time, like I'm gonna do this for 10 or 15 minutes every day, versus I'm gonna do this for a half hour three times a week.

[00:43:31] Yeah. It's the 10 or 15 minutes every day. That's way more achievable for me. Otherwise I'm like, oh right. I have to do that thing. Like if it's not a part of my routine, it's so much harder for me to actually fit in than if it's just a part of my daily routine. 

[00:43:46] Rachel: Yeah, for sure. And also I think like something that's important there is those short 10 or 15 minute like.

[00:43:55] Weightlifting sessions are still really impactful. Yeah, totally. Like I, I never lift for more than 20 minutes at a time, and when I tell people that, they're like, what? I'm like, that's all I have time for right now in this season of life. So it's that or nothing. Yeah. And so I've chosen that. Yeah. All of that to say metabolism science is just so fascinating.

[00:44:14] And I feel like there's still so much we don't really know about the variability between people, but I will say that lifting weights has allowed me to eat huge amounts of food. And I love that for me. And I'm never feeling like I have to restrict or be hungry. I was in this kind of cycle of like denying myself foods and then like overeating them.

[00:44:34] And now it's just like if I want an ice cream and I have an ice cream and I'm not gonna feel like bad about it. And so Totally. It helps me get rid of that. Like, oh, let me eat all these cookies so they're out of the house, and then I won't be tempted by them anymore. Right, sure. Which then led me, that's not how my brain works, cookies, you know?

[00:44:50] Yeah, totally. 

[00:44:51] Alyssa: And for me, the like, there isn't a. I have not experienced the, like, I feel bad when I eat food in my life other than like physically feel bad when I eat some foods a bunch, right? Like, uh, I was really craving a milkshake relatively recently and then I had a milkshake and then I was like, it was so good in the moment and I was drinking the milkshake and then later I really felt like crap.

[00:45:14] And I was like, yeah, just in at this age, in this body, I can't pound a milkshake like I used to. Totally. And uh, it's like 

[00:45:22] Rachel: straight dairy sitting in your stomach, correct? Yeah. Yeah. Just 

[00:45:25] Alyssa: can't, the idea of it's great, but for me it's like, it is strength and endurance and thing that comes from having been an athlete for my whole upbringing and then not being an athlete at this point.

[00:45:40] I noticed yesterday we were at. The farm are like local Shelburne farms and both kids wanted me naturally to carry them. Mm-hmm. And I was carrying them around and like didn't tire of carrying them around. And I was like, this is cool. Like this is what I'm looking for is that I can say yes to carrying my tiny humans.

[00:46:05] It's such a short period of time that I get to carry my tiny humans. Yes. And I say yes to carrying them and I feel like I physically can do that. You know? I love, that's, 

[00:46:14] Rachel: yes. That's 

[00:46:14] Alyssa: what it is for me is being able to not have to be like, oh no buddy, I can't play that game. Like I'm too tired to do that or whatever.

[00:46:23] Right now actually the thing that is getting in the way is I have to like really focus on my pelvic floor if I'm gonna be running or anything. Totally. Yes. And that was not the case actually before. Before I, like with Sagey, I could run afterwards and like move and it was not affected in being did number on this body.

[00:46:43] Yeah, in my pelvic floor 

[00:46:44] Rachel: is 

[00:46:44] Alyssa: garbage. She's, she's given in and I was like, oh, this is what they're talking about when you like sneeze and have to like really contract. Uh, the other 

[00:46:52] Rachel: day, the other day, Abel was like, mom, will you jump on the trampoline? And I was like, I don't know buddy. I really don't feel like it.

[00:46:56] And he was like, you don't feel like peeing your pants. And I was like, pretty much 

[00:47:02] Alyssa: all the pelvic floor physical therapists are like, no, stop. It doesn't have to be this way. I 

[00:47:06] Rachel: know I need to go, I need to go. And I know that I do, but I have like anxiety about the initial, um, exam. 

[00:47:15] Alyssa: I just don't honestly wanna carve out the time for it right now.

[00:47:18] I. 

[00:47:19] Rachel: Yeah, that's my thing. Well, also, like, I'm not gonna put time into 

[00:47:22] Alyssa: it also, 

[00:47:23] Rachel: I just don't want anything in there, you know, and Sure, sure, sure. So that's really, that's really what's going on. Anything, anyone? Anyone, anything? Yeah. I just, I know I need to go. I really do. But back to being able to carry your kids like Abel's 50 pounds and he still is a Velcro.

[00:47:41] Yeah. And we were somewhere, and I had been carrying him for a really long time, and, um, Cody was actually like, babe, this is what you train for. Like, this is what, this is the lifting. Like, and I was just like, yeah, that's so true. Like, it's so much more to me than what my body looks like and more about like how my body can show up in this world.

[00:47:58] Yeah. And I felt so weak after chemo for a long time. Sure. And it feels really good to feel like my body feels like I feel my age in my body, you know? Like I feel young and healthy and good and, you know. 

[00:48:14] Alyssa: Yeah. 

[00:48:15] Rachel: For 

[00:48:15] Alyssa: sure. Yeah, I am. I'm working my way there. I'm working my way back there. I'm not there yet six, but I'm starting to, yeah, for sure.

[00:48:24] April six. I'm starting to experience just like more strength and like that's what I'm in it, in it for because yeah, both my kids wanting to be on my body is a solid 60 pounds together. Yeah, that's no joke. Yeah. I'm like, I wanna be able to, yes. Those things. Or even just like pushing them both in the stroller up a hill around, whatever, 

[00:48:46] Rachel: and that'll strain your pelvic floor more than you realize.

[00:48:50] Alyssa: Girl, I realize,

[00:48:56] lemme tell you, I realize,

[00:49:03] oh, oh man. Who are we chatting about today? 

[00:49:06] Rachel: Okay, today we are talking about Marielle Buqué. Oh yeah. Breaking cycles. She's awesome. From our childhood. 

[00:49:13] Alyssa: Well, breaking cycles, man. The freaking food cycles. That's one freaking cycle 

[00:49:18] Rachel: man relationship to 

[00:49:19] Alyssa: food. Mm-hmm. 

[00:49:21] Rachel: It even, okay. No, even, so I've started wearing frownie at night.

[00:49:26] Alyssa: Yeah. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. I need to, this isn't 

[00:49:28] Rachel: sponsored. Um, feel free to start to me, but if you wanna Yeah. But 

[00:49:33] Alyssa: also, you know, 

[00:49:35] Rachel: and I've had like this challenge of how to articulate to my children, like the why. 

[00:49:41] Alyssa: Mm-hmm. Sure. 

[00:49:44] Rachel: More so Nora, like for Abel, I was just like, oh, just it's gonna make my skin smooth.

[00:49:48] And he was just like, okay. But Nora keeps being like, so what's going on there? And so I just said like. And I haven't really known how this will impact her, but I've just said like, I don't want to have a bunch of lines on my face. Um, and so I'm really expressive and I move my forehead a lot. And so now there's starting to be lines where I move my forehead a lot and I would like those to not be there, so I am using these things.

[00:50:18] Um, but it's like, then there's a, I wonder what 

[00:50:22] Alyssa: it looks like to like give it to him straight of, yeah. These are things that. Freaking man. There are some things I'm rewriting for you and some things I'm not, and this is one that I'm not, right. Like this is one of the cycles I'm not breaking of. I learned these things about like what my face looks like or what it means if I have lines or whatever.

[00:50:42] Mm-hmm. 

[00:50:43] Rachel: And I don't want that. I'm not taking that on right now. It's so funny too, because right after chemo, I went through this like stage. 'cause that was like when some of my friends were starting to like explore Botox and things like that. Sure. And I was like, aging is a privilege, you know, fresh outta chemo.

[00:50:58] Sure. Also 25. Um, so not a wrinkle or gray hair to be found. And I was just like, aging is a privilege, whatever. And now I'm like, all right, well it is a privilege, but also like, is there a way to not look like it's happening? 

[00:51:13] Alyssa: No. The, like the Botox wrinkle situation is one that I'm like, Hmm. I also look young for my age and Yeah, you do.

[00:51:23] It's, it's fully my mom. Jeans. Like she also has always looked young 

[00:51:30] Rachel: for her. She has great skim. 

[00:51:31] Alyssa: She does, she does. It's been interesting 'cause like when I was growing up, she never drank. Also, she didn't smoke at all, but she never ever, ever, she would You remember like Mike's hard Lemonade? 

[00:51:43] Rachel: Yeah. 

[00:51:43] Alyssa: She would like open a Mike's hard and it was like the bottle cap, like it wasn't a twist, like it was as if you popped a beer bottle cap off.

[00:51:51] Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. And she would save the cap 'cause she would never finish a Mike's hard and then she'd put the cap back on for the next time. So good. So good. Or like have a box of wine in the fridge because if you opened it, maybe it'd go bad, but if it's a box wine, it's you just put a little bit's. Yeah.

[00:52:07] Yeah. So she like barely drank when I was growing up and uh, she had water and she would have RC Cola. Those were her like mm-hmm. Two her vices. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Uh, water RC Cola and. Either to your coffee. Half of Mike's hard and half of Mike's hard baby. And uh, and it's been interesting 'cause like once the kids were all outta the house, she started drinking more.

[00:52:30] I think she was just like, okay, like I can, yeah. I'm not responsible for other humans. She started having kids when she was 19. So once you hair down on 

[00:52:36] Rachel: mags. 

[00:52:37] Alyssa: That's right. That's right. And like, get it girl. But I have seen a shift in her skin. 

[00:52:42] Rachel: Oh yeah. Well, I mean, that makes sense. Anytime you strain the old liver, it starts to show up.

[00:52:48] Correct. The old liver, that old thing. So 

[00:52:52] Alyssa: real. That old thing. But yeah, I got her gene, so I already look younger. Yeah. You have great skin then. I am, I have the privileges being like, yeah, we'll wait and see what happens here. I got a bunch of gray hair happening here, but, 

[00:53:06] Rachel: but yeah, it looks good with your natural color.

[00:53:09] Alyssa: Thank you. Thanks. It's come hot since beans. It's like aggressive amount of grays since her bless. Uh. But I'm here for it. I'm just gonna let it ride out. 

[00:53:20] Rachel: My grays have gotten so much more this year. Um, and I read that there's like a, I just read this like research article that there's like a surge in aging right around age 34, which I'm coming up on and it feels like I'm experiencing it because all of a sudden I'm like, wow, I have wrinkles.

[00:53:37] Wow. I have way more gray hair. Yeah. Interesting. Um, right. 

[00:53:41] Alyssa: Yeah. Maybe that's, I think I was 34 when I had beans. 34 or 35 

[00:53:47] Rachel: when I 

[00:53:47] Alyssa: had beans, so that would make sense too. I get maybe it's just the timing of beans and less about, 

[00:53:52] Rachel: well, lack of sleep. Extreme lack of sleep 

[00:53:56] Alyssa: extreme for an extended period of time.

[00:53:59] Rachel: Yeah. Nobody, nobody thrives under those conditions. Oh, 

[00:54:03] Alyssa: just love her. Just love her. Okay. When it comes to breaking cycles, I think what I so deeply love about Dr. Mario's work is. The compassion. Right. That we, I think what, there's a conversation so much more of a conversation around re-parenting now than our parents' generation had.

[00:54:27] And I think it's so cool, right, that we're looking at like the inner child and all that jazz. I think there's also then this fear of I'm supposed to not pass anything on to my kids. 

[00:54:37] Rachel: Mm-hmm. 

[00:54:38] Alyssa: Because I think a lot of us in our generation start first with anger about things that we got from our parents, and then we're trying to avoid that in our kids.

[00:54:47] Like, we're like, we don't want them to be mad at us for the things that we didn't re-parent. We wanna make sure we maintain this relationship with them. 

[00:54:56] Rachel: Yeah. Like, like that if any small mistake happens Yeah. We've we've blown it. 

[00:55:02] Alyssa: Totally. And I'm just like, yeah. Yikes. That's a hard way to parent and to feel like we have to be doing everything with intention all the time and like making sure we're not passing anything on.

[00:55:15] Rachel: Also, that's not what I wanna model for my kids. I don't, not at all. Like I struggle so much with perfectionism and I see it in Nora and I really want her to know that it's okay to be human and show up in a messy way sometimes. Um, and there certainly was a time where I didn't wanna make one single mistake.

[00:55:37] Um, but knowing the also, 

[00:55:41] Alyssa: I don't want to make a mistake, but I'm just like, I can't parent from a place of 

[00:55:46] Rachel: totally. I don't wanna make mistakes 

[00:55:48] Alyssa: either. 

[00:55:49] Rachel: But I see the value, I think in modeling for kids. What does it look like when you mess up and how do you repair and how do you show up in that relationship authentically after a rupture?

[00:56:05] Um, 'cause that's a skillset I want my kids to have. 

[00:56:09] Alyssa: A hundred percent. Yeah. I want them to be able to drop the ball. I also am not afraid of them being mad at me. Right. Like even if it's for a chunk of time. Right. Even if they get to a place where they're like, Ugh, I am going to therapy, and I'm realizing these things that I now have an adulthood that STEM stemmed from my childhood and I'm mad at my parents for this.

[00:56:32] I'm okay with them being mad at me. I would love for them to be able to tell me when they're mad or know that it's okay for them to be mad at me. And that's not gonna change how I feel about them or the way that I treat them or show up in relationship with them. And that's the part I feel like starts right now.

[00:56:52] Rachel: Yeah. 

[00:56:53] Alyssa: But I don't need them to get to adulthood and be like, yeah, no, my parents were so great. I have nothing to heal. 

[00:57:00] Rachel: That's just not possible. 

[00:57:03] Alyssa: Yeah. And I don't need that. You know, like I just, I as a human don't need that. 

[00:57:08] Rachel: So I was, had a moment the other day. Um, Nora has really like, has more self-advocacy skills than I did at her age.

[00:57:22] Um, but they also, like, they transfer over to Abel too. Like she'll advocate for him. So we were in the car, Abel was overloaded and Cody was trying to like, talk him through it and it just like wasn't the time. But I wasn't saying anything 'cause I'm just like, whatever, this is your relationship with him, you'll figure it out.

[00:57:40] Um, but Nora goes, dad, that's not helping. It's too much talking. Stop. And I like looked over at Cody and was like, yeah, it's too much talking. That's awesome. And he kind of like chuckled and shook his head, but he, Abel did need. Everybody to stop talking in that moment. Yeah. Um, and so I love that because I think about myself as a 10-year-old kid, and I would've never said that to my dad for fear of being seen as disrespectful.

[00:58:11] Totally. And Nora wasn't being disrespectful. She was trying to advocate for Abel. Um, and she said, and frankly, the family unit, honestly, like, wow, I, that's what I wanted to say. Thanks Joan. Um, and I love that where like she doesn't have that fear of, of advocating for herself or advocating for able, and that she knows that like, we won't, you know, be like, enough, you're not part of this conversation, you know, that kind of a mm-hmm.

[00:58:42] Situation. Um, and there are tons of, you know, things that I'm not doing well, that I am repeating things that I don't wanna repeat. But that little like, glimpse was like, okay, yeah, this is good 

[00:58:55] Alyssa: a hundred percent. And I think what's. So tricky is that we all then have parts in us from our childhood who were raised in this respect mindset that are gonna pop up in those moments and be like, it's not her place to say something.

[00:59:11] And especially when you first start wading into this space and, and healing those parts, it is, it's work in the moment mm-hmm. To notice them and kind of override those parts. And I've started to sometimes like name them to my kids. 

[00:59:30] Rachel: Hmm. 

[00:59:31] Alyssa: Where I'll say things like, oh, there's a part of me that feels uncomfortable right now with the way that you just said that when I was a kid, I wasn't allowed to do that.

[00:59:43] I want you to keep talking to me. I just need to call my body so I can really listen. 

[00:59:49] Rachel: Mm-hmm. Yeah. I love that 

[00:59:52] Alyssa: because especially with a neuro perceptive sensitive human. SIE reads the room. And so when those parts pop up for me, I have like a defense that'll come up, even if it doesn't come outta my mouth.

[01:00:04] He notice it 

[01:00:06] Rachel: doesn't have to. That's right. 

[01:00:06] Alyssa: Yeah. He notices that energy shift in me. And I have found it more helpful for my relationship with him when I name it, and then he knows why there's an energy shift. He knows I'm responsible for regulating my own stuff and like it's the known to the unknown, right?

[01:00:26] Of like, Ooh, I noticed this thing. And if I don't say it out loud, he now has a story about himself, right? That he did something wrong or that he is wrong. And I just disconnected from him. And when I say it out loud, I feel like it's, he softens and he realizes like, oh, this isn't about me. And same with Zach.

[01:00:45] Whenever I like have something, just last night I was like, I wanna talk about something after the kids are down. And I like saw him like. Kind of tense up and I was like, oh, it's not about you. And he was like, oh, thank God. Okay, cool. Yeah. And it's that like, is this about me? Did I do something wrong? Like Sie has that too, in a way that Mila does not, she is not worried about getting in trouble or doing something wrong.

[01:01:09] Mm-hmm. And uh, 

[01:01:13] Rachel: honestly could use a little more 

[01:01:15] Alyssa: of it. Correct. I also am not worried about getting in trouble or doing something wrong. 

[01:01:20] Rachel: Yeah. 

[01:01:20] Alyssa: Uh, so understand girl, but whew. And yeah, so I like see that in them. And when I can just say out loud the things that are happening inside, because it's usually not about them.

[01:01:32] It's a me thing. It's a me from childhood situation. 

[01:01:36] Rachel: Oh, for sure. I think about, you know, times where I'm overloaded or dysregulated and Norris says something that is self-advocacy, but I'm not here for it. 'cause I'm dysregulated. Stuff will come outta my mouth. Like, I'll be like, if I ever said that to my parents, like.

[01:01:53] Would've been Yeah, a hundred percent. Like you don't even wanna know what would've happened. Like that's the kind of, you know. Correct. And um, so yeah, there's certainly parts of me that still come up. And one thing that is, so Cody and I have a lot of differences in like our family of origin stuff, but one thing that is the same for both of us are the, um, like gender double standards that we grew up with.

[01:02:20] Ah, sure. Which is likely connected to like, areas of our religious upbringing. Um, but, so in both of our families, boys were given a lot more like leeway and grace to make mistakes. Um, and girls were held to a higher standard and disciplined more strongly, especially like my sister was disciplined. More lived in a stricter house than I did.

[01:02:47] Um, yeah. 

[01:02:49] Alyssa: How 

[01:02:49] Rachel: all those first 

[01:02:49] Alyssa: bo borns really 

[01:02:50] Rachel: pave in 

[01:02:51] Alyssa: the 

[01:02:51] Rachel: way 100%. And so I have to be so careful because I notice in myself that I, you know, an age bias comes into this too, of course. But I am sometimes perpetuating those like eldest daughter super high standards and expectations with Nora, and then like letting stuff go with Abel.

[01:03:14] And I'm working to find this middle ground where I am holding them to appropriate standards based on their age. But that, like, I'm not recreating the, the gender double standards where I am. Just more, I just seem to have more grace for Abel sometimes. And I'm sure nervous system jazz comes into it too.

[01:03:37] But I remember feeling so frustrated and annoyed when, like, my brother would be caught like at a party or something, and the punishment was pretty much like nil. And he kind of just like did whatever he wanted and then like, I like didn't relate, couldn't like, wear eyeliner to school. And I was just like, is this really what's, like the eyeliner is the issue for you?

[01:04:02] And he's coming home with hickeys, like, what's, yeah, what's going on here? Um, and I remember feeling this like, this was such an injustice and I was so annoyed by it all. And yet here I am sometimes recreating that dynamic, my own family. Sure. Um, I, all of that to say sometimes these things are so deeply embedded in ourselves that even just recognizing that you're.

[01:04:28] Doing it and perpetuating it is hard. 

[01:04:32] Alyssa: Totally. Totally. It takes work and like that's where I'm like, we're not gonna heal all the things right. Because it's just impossible to live with that level of consciousness all the time. We're, we're not going to. And when I look at it, I'm like, what is truly most important to me and how do I be mindful of those patterns?

[01:04:56] Like it is most important to me that my kids know they can come to me with whatever happens in their life and they know they're not in trouble and I'll help 'em figure this out. Yeah. They have a safe place to turn to. That's what's most important to me. And. So when I am looking at like, yeah, I'm not re-writing right now, like the whining trigger, we weren't allowed to whine in my household growing up.

[01:05:27] And now when he whines, I like throw up essentially. Yeah. And I'm like, oh, it's so hard for me to hear that voice right now. Like I, when you speak in that voice, my insides are cringing, which is a kinder way than I heard it. But still it's the same message of like, you don't get to whine. And it's just not high on my prior, it's like a pelvic floor pt, just not high on my priority list right now to carve out and make time to rewrite.

[01:05:57] Yeah. 

[01:05:57] Rachel: Mm-hmm. And 

[01:05:58] Alyssa: that's okay with me if he gets to adulthood. And he's also still just annoyed by the sound of whining and doesn't wanna engage in conversation with somebody when they're whining. That's okay for me. Yeah. As long as he knows that he can still, like he'll stop whining at some point and then he'll tell me the same thing and I'll say, oh yeah, no, I'm happy to help you with that.

[01:06:19] Right. Like, we'll still have the conversation just when he has like the little kid, when I taught preschool my very first year of teaching preschool, I had this kid who would say, miss Li, I can't talk to you with that face on. And it was that like, my face would clearly be like annoyed Yeah. When certain things would happen.

[01:06:38] And I had to be mindful of my face. Right? Yeah. Like if I wanted this kid to talk to me, I had to be mindful of my face. And right now, if Sage wants me to like really hear what he's saying it, he can't do it in a wine. And is that ideal? No. Is it fine for me? Yeah. Yep. You know, not trying to, it's not a deal breaker.

[01:07:00] Yeah. No, no. Uh, I don't think that prevents him down the road from like coming to me. He just knows that I'm sound sensitive and he'll connect those things. Like he, the other day in the car, he goes, mom, uh, I know that when I do the weu sound it sometimes you have a headache from that sound and, but there's kind of an emergency and I just need to do it for like one second and then my sirens will go off.

[01:07:30] And I was like, okay buddy, go ahead. And he was like, and then he was like, and I'm all done. I got to the emergency. We're just driving in the car. This is not available. That so 

[01:07:40] Rachel: kind that, so kind, so sweet. 

[01:07:43] Alyssa: Yeah. And I'm like, that's okay with me. I want him to know. Yeah, I have a body and a nervous system. He knows what's straining for me.

[01:07:49] He knows what's regulating for me. And we talk about our bodies a lot in our household because we got two humans with. Two very different nervous systems in terms of how they operate. And I was like, that for me is actually really rad that he knows that I've got a decently low capacity for what I would consider to be just a annoying sound.

[01:08:15] Yeah. And he is gonna use it wisely. 

[01:08:19] Rachel: Yeah. And that, that is a life skill. He's going to encounter people where he's a sensory mismatch. Yeah. And how do you navigate that with kindness? Um, yeah. I love that. 

[01:08:32] Alyssa: That's pretty rad. Uh, yeah. But I, I love Dr. Mario's work. Her book is so good and it's so key in being able to parent with intention and to think about, all right, if I wanna have this relationship with my kids down the road, I.

[01:08:50] What are the things that I am focused on doing now and what cycles will I have to break to get there? Yeah. Uh, I think is so important, so helpful to have this guide. Thanks for tuning in to Voices of Your Village. Check out the transcript at voices of your village.com. Did you know that we have a special community over on Instagram hanging out every day with more free content?

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