Chaos, Connection and Accidental F-Bombs with Caitlin Murray of Big Time Adulting

Disclaimer: This transcript was generated with the help of AI and may contain minor errors or inconsistencies. Please refer to the audio for the most accurate representation of the conversation.

[00:00:00] Alyssa: You're listening to Voices of Your Village, and today I'm joined by someone who brings humor, heart, and a whole lot of real talk to the parenting space. Caitlin Murray of Big Time Adulting is hanging out with us today. Caitlin's known for her brutally honest and hilarious take on motherhood. And in this episode, we get into what it actually looks like to treat our kids like the whole humans they are, while still navigating the reality that they don't have fully developed brains. We talk about the mental load, the pressure to do it all right, and how to show up with authenticity, accidental F-bombs and all.  This one is raw, relatable, and full of belly laughs and truth bombs. All right folks, let's dive in.

[00:00:47] Hey there. I'm Alyssa Blask Campbell. I'm a mom with a master's degree in early childhood education and co-creator of the Collaborative Emotion Processing Method. I'm here to walk alongside you through the messy, vulnerable parts of being humans, raising other humans with deep thoughts and actionable tips.

[00:01:04] Let's dive in together.

[00:01:09] Your post kind of like highlighted that you can be this safe space for them and also be a firm adult in their life who's gonna set boundaries with them and also be playful with them. And you can hold both of these truths. I'm wondering, in this world of social media parenting, how you like are able to hold on to that and not kind of second guess yourself or feel yourself pulled in different spaces.

[00:01:33] Caitlin: Yeah. Social media is such a mind fuck in general. Um, for so many things, like all of the things that you think that you need to be doing or have or whatever, and I feel myself often just getting really like caught up in that cycle sometimes of continuing to think about, oh, do I have to do this? Or how do I do this?

[00:01:54] Mm-hmm. Sort of becoming obsessive about certain things. Right. And I think at some point I just was like, this is. Fucking crazy. Why am I letting anybody else tell me how the natural way to parent my kids? It's something about believing in yourself as a woman and a mother to be good enough as you are and trust your instincts and be strong in that.

[00:02:17] Because more than anything, that's what kids need. They need to be like strong and believe in themselves and go with their instincts. And I'm not a robot, like I'm not gonna change who I am and reprogram myself to meet some. Perfect parenting style or whatever that is written in a textbook. That's just, that's not gonna be me.

[00:02:39] I'm gonna like fly off the handle sometimes and uh, I'm gonna drop an F-bomb every now and again, or maybe even once a day or something. Sure. Just when something happens or whatever, like, yeah. Yeah. It happens. And then I'm also like, when appropriate and necessary, totally gonna own the mistakes that I've made with my kids and say, I'm really sorry that I like flipped out about this.

[00:03:04] Or, you know, I should not have lost my temper with you over that. I was stressed about A, B, C, I apologize. You know, I hope you understand where I was coming from and that kind of thing. So. It's just about being a human right? Like you're going through a range of human emotions as a parent, and that's fucking fine.

[00:03:26] Yeah. 

[00:03:27] Alyssa: That's it though. Is that like It is fine. Yeah. And I think that that's gotten lost like now with the, like say this, not this. Mm-hmm. You're just not an authentic human then with your child and they can read through the bullshit. I agree. I relatively recently, I just like had a day and I was, the kids had gone down and I was sitting on the couch and I was folding laundry and I was just crying.

[00:03:53] And Zach, my husband, walked in and he was like. Uh, what's going on? You look sad. And I was like, oh, really? Good job, bud. Was it the tears that like, it felt to me like he was like reading a script. Like he was like, this is what I'm supposed to say in this moment, right? Yeah. And what I really wanted was like, whoa, what's up?

[00:04:11] Like his authentic reaction. Yeah. And then he was like, what am I supposed to say? Like, you look sad. And I was like, yeah, no shit. I'm sitting here crying, folding laundry. It actually led to like, disconnection. Like I didn't, it didn't feel connecting to me because I was like, who are you? Just show up as yourself.

[00:04:29] Caitlin: Yes. Because he was searching for the right words. It's like being, it's like too professional, right? Yeah. It's like this isn't a professional relationship. This is the most deeply personal relationship that I have outside of my marriage, right? Mm-hmm. Like with, with my kids and my family, it's like, I'm not.

[00:04:45] I, I would also like wanna poke somebody in the eye in like a boardroom setting. If they were like, now let's discuss the dysregulation of the office environment today, or whatever. I would just be like, shut the fuck up. Let, let's talk about what happened in a real way. Yeah. And just say it, you know, why are we walking on eggshells around each other here?

[00:05:06] We're family 

[00:05:07] Alyssa: legit. Yeah, exactly. And I think there's this, like, this idea that there are certain words we're supposed to say that's gotten people so in their heads that it's hard for them to just show up authentically. And I think the, like marriage part of it is if you grew up in a household where you didn't have someone who set.

[00:05:31] Clear, consistent boundaries, apologized when they made mistakes and held themselves accountable, et cetera. Then you don't have a model for this. Right? And so now folks are turning outside of themselves for like, how do I do this? What does this look like? And I think are then jumping off with scripts.

[00:05:50] Mm-hmm. And can get stuck in that space. Like you think it's fine if you're like, yeah, I don't know what this looks like. And almost to just say that sometimes, Hey. What I really wanna say is like, what the fuck's going on? And I don't know if that's an appropriate thing to say right now. Like that would feel better for me than the script.

[00:06:09] Caitlin: Yeah. I, yes. And I almost can't help it to come out like the, the things that I'm naturally gonna say are just gonna fly out of my mouth at some point. And I've found like, I think what you're referring to is like the way that you grew up versus the way you're trying to raise your kids. Yeah. And that sort of thing.

[00:06:24] I had a great childhood. My parents are both humans also. Like they had their flaws and the things that they did wrong that maybe I would change or do differently. But I have things that I'm going to be doing wrong that my kids might say, I wanna change this and do, it's all part of life. You know, I feel like being alive, you need to just calm down a little bit and let people be people.

[00:06:48] And honestly, I don't know a single human who is like so evolved that they never. Screw up or like never say the wrong thing or any of that. I feel like our generation talks a lot about like the trauma of their parents and that kind of thing, and I'm kind of like, are you okay? Like, can you make it through the day, like go throughout your normal activities and stuff like that.

[00:07:13] Then just let it go. You know, like stop holding onto all of that and overthinking everything that happened to you in life or that you do in life too. Like we're not that important. We're just this tiny spec on this face of the earth for a short time. We're not here for a long time. We're here for a good time.

[00:07:33] That's right. That's right. I, 

[00:07:35] Alyssa: I a hundred percent agree. I think that there's this idea that if we understand it. Then we won't repeat it. I, I had a parent when I was on book tour for tiny humans who in the audience, it was like q and a time, and she was like, well, I don't want my kid down the road to be like in therapy talking about the things that I screwed up.

[00:07:56] And I was like, oh, why? Mm-hmm. And she has this idea that she could do things so perfectly that her kid would get to adulthood and just be like, yeah, everything in my life was perfect. I have nothing to unpack. And I was like, we have different goals, to be honest. Like I, I don't share that same goal. I don't think there's a world in which my kids get to adulthood and they're like, yeah, mom nailed everything all the time a hundred percent of the time.

[00:08:26] That's not what I'm trying to do here. 

[00:08:28] Caitlin: Yeah. 

[00:08:28] Alyssa: And I, for folks who are like looking at their childhood and they're like, yeah, my parents screwed up all these things and I don't wanna be that parent. I think there is this idea that if I do this perfectly, I won't be that parent. My kids will get to adulthood and they'll have nothing to unpack.

[00:08:47] Caitlin: Yeah. I, I just don't think that that's realistic. Right. Same at the same time where like, I probably have things I like could unpack about my childhood and that kind of thing. I'm like, what's the fucking point, you know, for me right now? Now I'm like, well, if you're functioning correct. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, obviously there are people who need some help working through trauma that's happened to them, and I'm not trying to be, be dismissive of that, but just the general population, you know, all of us.

[00:09:15] I think it's just helpful to know we're all kind of messed up. Mm-hmm. Like, we're in this together, like we're all fucked up. It's okay. 

[00:09:24] Alyssa: It's real. Like everyone's gonna come to the table with their own stuff. 

[00:09:27] Caitlin: Yeah. What's the thing they say when everybody puts their problems out on a table? You wanna take yours back.

[00:09:33] Alyssa: I've never heard that, but that's hilarious. I, I also think like. I look at the work that we do predominantly in schools. We work with families, but we also, like the bulk of our work is in schools. And this has like shifted into schools too, where there's, um, a desire for, uh. Regulation and compliance all the time from kids and we're like, yeah, that's not a kid's gonna have a hard time or be in a bad mood or be hungry, or they got made fun of at gym and now they're not participating in this thing and that's okay.

[00:10:10] Like we don't need a hundred percent from them all the time. Yeah. So our work is really around like creating regulating spaces for all kids and really focused on like that regulation component. And we've noticed this shift in schools where they're like, okay, so I'll do this and my class will just be like regulated all the time.

[00:10:28] And we're like, no, not unless there's like a hormonal imbalance, is somebody regulated all the time? We're all going to. Lose our cool, have hard feelings, get frustrated, et cetera. And there needs to be space for that. Whether you're at school and you're like, I'm pissed because I can't figure this thing out and I'm working hard on it.

[00:10:50] Or I'm embarrassed 'cause I just had to read this thing aloud and I stumbled over it, or whatever. Or you're at home and you're a parent and you're like, yeah, I am pissed. 'cause I've been trying to get out the door that we did a shit show of a morning and my husband and I were just texting. He is like, I feel so bad.

[00:11:04] I'm like, yeah. But also we spent 15 minutes saying like, Hey bud, when this timer goes off, we gotta put your clothes on. We're going to school. Like that's not gonna shift. And he had ample opportunity to put his own clothes on before we came in and put his clothes on in a total shit show manner. And he didn't do that.

[00:11:21] Yeah. And so, yeah. Does that suck? Sure. Is it my first choice? No. And I don't feel bad. 

[00:11:29] Caitlin: Yeah. No, I mean there's something about all of those interactions with your kids where you like, are so pissed off and annoyed by those situations. That always feels bad to a certain extent inside. 'cause you're like, I didn't want it to have to be this way, you know?

[00:11:46] Correct. But I tried to do it the nice way, but at some point, like that's just reality. You're gonna, you're gonna lose it after a certain amount of time. And this isn't just, we we're doing this one day, this is what we're doing every single day, day in and day out. So, you know, wears on you, it wears on them, you know, not everything's gonna go exactly according to your execution, what you think.

[00:12:12] It's gonna like the plan every day. And that's okay. You know, it's. Meltdown mornings are very much a hundred percent a theme in e every single household. I think. I don't know anybody, even some of the pa, like I, I have a friend who has five kids and I'm always like, how do you, how you know, we stay alive?

[00:12:33] How do you do all of this? Yeah. And um, I think of her as pretty chill in most senses, but she would tell me like, you know, I totally lost it on so and so this morning over this silly thing. And she was like, I've been really trying not to do that, but I just blew up at my daughter over. It was like probably a clothing thing or whatever it was.

[00:12:56] Sure. But even just the people that you, my point is like, the people that you think kind of have it together or know what they're doing or remain calm in these situations, it's not everybody is fumbling somewhere along the way. It's either that or like you have. Insane amounts of help all around you at all times, right?

[00:13:19] First, yeah. Yeah. So if you're just like the person who's doing it day in and day out, you're gonna, you're gonna lose your shit sometimes. A 

[00:13:28] Alyssa: hundred percent. In that post, that like brought me to this conversation you were talking about, like the way that you connect with your kids individually and the role that humor plays in that, how have you like.

[00:13:42] Really gotten to know each kid and kind of what hits for them. So for me, my daughter and I are very similar. It's super easy for me to connect with her and for my son, I'm like, I don't care about a rescue mission. Right? Like, I just don't, I don't care and it's not fun for me. And so like connecting with him in his interests takes more effort for me.

[00:14:08] Mm-hmm. If that makes sense. How have you navigated this in finding connection with your kids and kind of building relationships with who they are? 

[00:14:17] Caitlin: Yeah. Well it's hard 'cause they are each incredibly different. So, um. After my first was born, he, he's such like a rule follower and a people pleaser and that kind of thing.

[00:14:30] And what, whatever we told him, he was very verbal at a young age. So whatever we told him, he understood and just went along with the program. And I was like, I am the best mother that has ever walked the face of this earth. I'm like, I have a gift. I'm amazing at just getting my children to do what they are supposed to do.

[00:14:49] And then my daughter came along and she was like, not today. You know, like, we're, I am not gonna put that coat on in the winter. And all of the things that just like infuriate me and that kind of thing. And then my little one is just like, I don't even know, just we're, I'm like. Just come here, let me put this on for you.

[00:15:09] And he's just sort of goes with the flow and just wants lots of hugs and stuff. And it's just, they're all quite different and they all delight me in their own ways. And then they all like sort of drive me crazy in their own ways also. And similarly, like we have all a different range of interests here.

[00:15:27] I mean, my oldest child has been talking to me about ants for like three days straight about different colonizations. And when the queen bees come to our area and I'm like, ha ha. And my head is gonna explode. Um, and my daughter will be like asking me stuff that I wanna talk about, like more de like emotional and that kind of thing.

[00:15:50] Mm-hmm. So she'll drive me crazy in her like get ready ways and my son will wear a paper bag out the door and then he'll yap at me about ants and she'll talk to me about like human relationships and stuff. Yeah. So it's all. It just, it's a balance with everybody. I think, you know, and, and humor is such a uniting.

[00:16:13] I, I just love to, like, when I feel frustrated by somebody or something, I like to sort of make fun of the situation so that we can all laugh in a way that like, brings out the insanity of what is happening in that moment. You know? And it takes the edge off 

[00:16:32] Alyssa: a hundred percent. It's, I grew up in a household with a lot of humor.

[00:16:35] Yeah. I sometimes to a fault of like, it took the place of emotions or any emotional validation. In fact, my team will also say like, don't Mike bla, this Mike's my dad. Or they'll like, give me a compliment. Or they'll say something nice and I'm like, oh yeah. And I have to like fully like bring in humor or deflect it in some capacity instead of just saying thank you.

[00:16:57] Um, and there was a lot of sarcasm in my household growing up. There were five of us and four boys, right? And so there was just, I think without humor we wouldn't have survived. Mm-hmm. Like humor is what kept us afloat. And I think that there's even fear. Around using humor. I think people are afraid that we're using it as a deflection or like if you would just talk about what was really coming up or if you just validated their feelings.

[00:17:31] In this instance, we wouldn't need humor. And again, I just think we've swung that pendulum a little too far. 

[00:17:39] Caitlin: Yeah, I do agree. Again, balance, like I do agree, it's, it gets really annoying when somebody is like constantly joking something off, like it's mm-hmm. And you can't get to the real heart of any matter with them, or they can't answer a question in a real way without just like, joking about it.

[00:17:55] I find that like really annoying. Mm-hmm. Um, but yeah, I mean there has to be a place for like, let's stop taking this so seriously and. Have a little laugh about it. Like, 'cause not everything has to be that deep. No. I 

[00:18:13] Alyssa: think that we are trying in this world of like overanalyzing our own childhoods and all that, we, it carries over into other spaces and everything becomes so deep.

[00:18:23] Mm-hmm. And so intentional. And I think we lose the ability to just like be alive. 

[00:18:31] Caitlin: Yeah. I mean, I feel like there's this sort of, there's so much virtue attached to being super sensitive to everything and every feeling. And sometimes that's like, I think it's well intentioned but not realistic or helpful.

[00:18:50] Yeah. All of the time. So I'm like, I understand you're trying to be a good person, but like, shut the fuck up. Yeah. 

[00:18:57] Alyssa: Hundred percent. Yeah. Well it just like, we don't, yeah, it doesn't have to, not everything has to be intentional. In fact, last night we, we host, um. We have a, a good backyard for hangs. Mm-hmm. Our house used to be a family childcare, like a home daycare, and so there's like a playground backyard.

[00:19:16] It's a nice backyard hang. And so in summer we do every week, summer Wednesday. And you just come over, bring your own dinner, drinks the grills on, like people just hang. We've got like a little pool set up for the kids and stuff, and people just hang and the kids play. 

[00:19:32] Caitlin: That's awesome. And 

[00:19:33] Alyssa: it's like a lot of just like neighborhood chaos basically.

[00:19:39] And uh, last night it was like the end of the night. We had also done like an ice cream sundae bar last night, so I was like, you're welcome families. I'm gonna like sugar your kids up. And then we're there, it's like almost bedtime and we had two little girls, one who's like a year and a half, and one who just turned two that were playing with.

[00:19:58] These toys. And then the 2-year-old took something from the 18 month old and the 18 month old took it back and the 2-year-old just like screamed bloody murder at the 18 month old and effective. The 18 month old dropped the toy and was just like. Shocked and sobbing. And the two year old's parent works for seed and is a friend of mine and she was just like, can I get an expert over here?

[00:20:28] And I was like, this is just, this just kids. This is just kids. Because there is no like way out of this. The only way out is through it my friend. And uh, it was just like this perfect. Chaos that started happening around it, of everyone trying to figure out like, what am I supposed to be doing? And I was like, actually, hey, I'm gonna pop in here and just have you guys all tap out and let them be pissed for a second.

[00:20:52] Like this little girl's scared. 'cause somebody just screamed in her face. Great. She gets to be scared. And the other child, I'm not going to like emotion coach her right now. We're not gonna talk about what she could do differently or how she made that kid feel or whatever. It's seven o'clock, she just had a brownie Sunday and she wants this toy and she's two.

[00:21:12] Right? Like we're just gonna let this go and be and not have everything be a like teaching moment. Yeah. And just let them exist as humans. 

[00:21:22] Caitlin: Yeah, totally. Sometimes I feel like when you're in public spaces with your kids around other people or like even with extended family and that kind of thing, I think we sort of tend to over parent maybe everything our kids are doing so that we don't feel like the public or our families or wherever who are are judging us.

[00:21:44] Like, look at that 

[00:21:45] Alyssa: shitty kid you're 

[00:21:45] Caitlin: raising. Yeah. But then you end up sort of being an asshole to your kid in a way, you know? Totally. And just like yelling at them more than you would, or that they even need in those moments. And it's something I've recognized in myself throughout the years and just a reminder for me to always kind of like.

[00:22:06] Not always, but often and especially when warranted, be on my kids' team, you know, like be on their side. I'm enough of a hard ass as it is with my kids. I think. Like they don't need extra of that. Yeah. Um, they need to know I have their back in those situations. And it's more just like growing up with parents who were of the boomer generation and stuff of, you know, children should be seen and not heard and that kind of like trickle down effect.

[00:22:38] There's residuals of that. Sure. And so. I just think like I'm trying to find the balance again and come like more from a place of, let me give you a hug right now and see if that helps more than yell at you. 

[00:22:51] Alyssa: Yeah. Lecture. 

[00:22:52] Caitlin: Yeah. I'm finally starting to get that with my third kid. Sure. Who's six now. So it's like, you know, it takes a while.

[00:23:01] Alyssa: Yeah. I asked my mom at one point, interviewed her very early on in the podcast, and one of the things I asked her was like, from oldest, youngest, there's 13 years between my oldest brother and my youngest brother. Yeah. And like when you got to Zach, my youngest brother. Was there anything that you like, were like, ah, this is the one thing that I really learned and I'm like shifting from the oldest to the youngest.

[00:23:27] She was like, I really just learned that most things don't matter. That like, it just doesn't matter if I am in my pajamas at five o'clock and we played candy land all day, or we were playing baseball in the backyard and I don't know, it's for dinner or we're having grilled cheese for the fourth night in a row.

[00:23:44] Like most things just don't matter. 

[00:23:48] Caitlin: Yeah. 

[00:23:49] Alyssa: And I do think that's pretty true. Yeah. That like most things just don't matter. 

[00:23:58] Caitlin: Yeah, I think, I don't know about how everybody else feels. I think I went into like motherhood with a very like serious attitude about how things needed to be done and like your first kid, and you're gonna do things like kind of buy the book and follow, I don't know, the rules or whatever it is or how, how you're gonna do things and this is how it's gonna be.

[00:24:18] And then you, you do like little by little realize that not, it's not not important to like try hard to make things a certain way or stick to like your value system or what you're trying to achieve overall, but it doesn't have to be so militant. It's just like, yeah, I agree with your mom so much and, and it's almost those things are what fully take you out of the moment with your kids or being able to enjoy it.

[00:24:45] And if you were to just say, fuck it, let's have grilled cheese again tonight and like, I'm not getting out of my pajamas today. How much easier your day would be when you. You know, weren't trying to get to the 9:00 AM music class and then like whatever after that, and home in time for nap. And then let's 

[00:25:04] Alyssa: get dinner ready.

[00:25:06] Yeah. This happened the other day where I, most Fridays I don't work and I am with the kids. We don't have childcare on Fridays. I, it was a Friday and I'd like planned out our itinerary for the day and it was like a beautiful summer Friday and my son was like a deep in play inside on this beautiful summer Friday when I had this like, lovely outing plan to this really cool playground.

[00:25:34] And I'm like trying to get him along to like, we're gonna go, we're gonna go. And he was like, um, I don't wanna go. Yeah. And I like caught myself in the moment. I was like. It doesn't matter if we go to this playground. Like I had this whole thing in my head of like, it's summer in Vermont and we are, we're gonna get outside.

[00:25:52] We're soaking up every second of the sun that we have in summer in Vermont. We're going and we're doing this thing. And he was like, you don't wanna Yeah. And had to like pull myself back and be like, kids, this actually doesn't matter. 

[00:26:04] Caitlin: Yeah. It 

[00:26:04] Alyssa: doesn't matter if he's inside all day today. 

[00:26:07] Caitlin: It doesn't. It really doesn't.

[00:26:09] And I mean, you'll, it's not like you're never gonna get outside again. Exactly. Yeah. 

[00:26:14] Alyssa: Yeah. But like I can for sure get in my own way with those things where I'm like, no, we're going and I know you don't want to leave this cool thing. You'll come back and play with it and have to like actively stop myself.

[00:26:27] And I don't always but did this one Friday where I was like, this doesn't matter. Yeah. I can also go in my backyard if I wanna be outside and play with my daughter and he can play in here. It's like, 

[00:26:38] Caitlin: um, it's like giving your kid a donut for breakfast and them licking off the frosting only and you being like, no, you have to eat the rest of the donut.

[00:26:48] You know, like hundred percent. Why? Why? Yeah. 

[00:26:53] Alyssa: You don't have to, 

[00:26:54] Caitlin: this is a real life example that I'm drawing from right now. Oh yeah, for sure. I know it well. Yeah. Why am I trying to make you eat that whole donut? Like I can give you a banana later or something. 

[00:27:05] Alyssa: Yeah, yeah. Hundred percent. Just with a cupcake where like he had licked off the frosting and sprinkles and I was like, are you gonna have the rest of the cup?

[00:27:12] He is like, I don't want the cup. I was like, it's so delicious. I'm like, what am I doing? Yeah. Why am I convincing him to have the cupcake? What is the point of this? Yeah. It's just so dumb. Uh, most things don't matter. I love it. Before we kind of wrap up today, one thing I'm curious about is. This idea of like being respectful to your kids and not being permissive is something I think a lot of people are very curious about right now.

[00:27:41] Mm. In the like, uh, respectful, gentle, whatever label you wanna put on it, parenting. And also I'm going to hold firm boundaries. What does that look like to do for you in practice? 

[00:27:54] Caitlin: Well, I think first of all, I find the whole like, narrative around what Gentle Parenting was versus is now. It's a sort of hilarious and ridiculous, and it's also, it's all basically a result of consumerism.

[00:28:06] Like, okay, we're gonna, like, gentle parenting has been, walked back so hard right now, I think. 'cause people are, you know, wanting to cover their ass a little bit. And maybe having been promoting the idea around gentle parenting, which. Authoritative parenting. Authoritative parenting has been the prime example of how to parent your kids for, I don't know, more than 50 years.

[00:28:33] Right? Like, I don't know when that like prototype of what is it? Like authoritarian, authoritative, and permissive parenting came out, but they just rebranded it as gentle, uh, at some point in the last decade or so, and they were like, we have a new term for this now. And, but like, why are you calling it gentle?

[00:28:52] Because we're now thinking that we are supposed to be even more gentle than what we and everything 

[00:28:59] Alyssa: has to happen in this tone. Yes. And in this manner. 

[00:29:03] Caitlin: Yeah. And calm and regulated at all times. And I'm like, again, I'm not a robot. I think I, I try to be like a cool mom with my kids, you know? Like I want them to love being with me and to have fun with me.

[00:29:19] And so. I try to engage with them and listen to them and talk about some of the things that they wanna talk about for a while and stuff. I'm not like, I'm Aunt Colonies, the Aunt Colony, uh, but I will not, like, I'm not a play, um, imaginary play mom. I'm not getting involved in any of that shit. Like I have enough stuff on my plate that I have to do for you on a daily basis.

[00:29:47] And pretending to be a princess is not one of them, and it's not something I'm willing to concede. So I, I think I have my own like, value system and boundaries of like what works well for me and what plays to my strengths as a mom, rather than trying to fit into what I think you're supposed to do as a mom.

[00:30:13] Mm-hmm. And it's taken me. Probably, you know, kind of a while to become really comfortable with that. I'm sure. You know, my son was sick and had leukemia and we were going through, uh, three years of chemo and various other treatments for him for quite a while. And I think it was during that time period of being his caretaker and being so full on in that process with him that I had a lot of conviction in myself as a mother.

[00:30:42] I was like, I am a good fucking mom. Yeah. You know, like, I'm here for him and I'm doing this and I'm doing my best and I'm not doing it perfectly, but I've been through a lot and we're, we're good. Like my kids are great, you know? 

[00:30:55] Rachel: Mm-hmm. 

[00:30:56] Caitlin: And, uh, I think that that just gave me a lot of confidence to just be the mom that I am instead of trying to be any other kind of mom.

[00:31:05] So it's not so much about like a system that I follow or any of that, I think it's just listening to your inner guide. As a person and, and feeling like you're good enough as you are and not always trying to, I mean, I always try, I do always, I, I am always trying to like think and get better and, you know, be more thoughtful and that sort of thing.

[00:31:27] It's not like, oh, I don't have any work to do. Yeah. But it's just accepting. 

[00:31:33] Alyssa: Yeah. And it sounds like allowing yourself to show up in the parent that feels most authentic to you, that like there might be humans who are like, no, I love the dramatic play side, but like, I don't wanna have a dance party with my kids.

[00:31:48] That's uncomfortable for me or whatever. It's, yeah. And letting yourself show up in your strengths. And knowing that you get to be that fun cool mom and also say like, yeah, and it's bedtime now and we have to go to bed. And that like both of those can exist. 

[00:32:04] Caitlin: Yeah. Do you ever find with your kids or your kids old enough yet where like if you get too silly with them for a little while, they take it to the next level and then you have have to really drop the hammer at some point and you'll be like, all right.

[00:32:17] Enough. A hundred percent. You know, you're like, this was fun and now it's not fun. Yeah. Why did I do this? Like you give them an inch and they take a mile. Pretty much. Yeah. So there is always that sort of self restraint and like not getting too silly. Or not getting too, because when you get silly, then they're like, whoa, we're going crazy now.

[00:32:37] Alyssa: Yeah. Yeah. It's real. I also find that like when I am a fun mom, it often leads to more collaboration for the things they don't wanna do. If I've been just like a pain in the ass to them. Mm-hmm. Or just like not around and and connecting and playing with them in any capacity, whether it is like the little dance party or doing something playful or whatever in any capacity.

[00:33:02] And then I'm like, all right, now it's time to get dressed and get out the door and whatever. They're like, who are you? Where did you come from? Like what? But if I have been like playful and we've been hanging out and engaging, then when I ask them to do the thing they don't really wanna do, it's often easier to get them to do those things than if I essentially put no effort into connecting with them.

[00:33:23] Caitlin: Yeah, a hundred percent. It's like when you're there and you're showing up for them in ways that they appreciate, they show their appreciation in their own special, cooperative way. Yeah. And sometimes they don't. Sometimes they still act like assholes. Even when you've been like, I've been with you all day, doing everything.

[00:33:44] A hundred percent. 

[00:33:44] Alyssa: Yeah. Yes. You're giving me nothing. Um, v before we wrap up, can you share a little bit about this new project that you just released here, this video story? Oh, 

[00:33:57] Caitlin: yeah. I would love to. It's called Violet Archer and, uh, these guys that I like came to know through Instagram, essentially one of them who's a documentary filmmaker, had written this kid's book and I ended up reading it and.

[00:34:12] Loving it. It's a great story. And it's a series. So there are these mysteries of this little girl who's violet archer, and she is her little detective, but they're just these very cute kid friendly mysteries. But it feels exciting and it's written really fun. Like adults will get a little chuckle out of the, the language and that kind of thing.

[00:34:37] And they had asked me to narrate the audio book. And so I did that and then we sort of came up with this idea of putting a video to it and making it a video book. Um, so it's not. A movie. A movie, uh, and it's more than an audio book. It's like an audio book with visuals, which is, it's pretty cool. I think it's like a great way for kids to sit and engage with a piece of content that is not overstimulating and something that will kind of help hold their attention spans and that kind of thing with, you know, today's world of just seven seconds of stimulation onto the next thing.

[00:35:17] Um, yeah, so I'm really excited about it. I hope people like it. It's actually coming out today, um, for free, so anyone can watch it. And the book is available on Amazon. Where can people watch it on YouTube? So if you go to, if you went to my Instagram page, big Time Adulting, I'll have a lot of links towards that and stuff as well.

[00:35:41] Sweet. Yeah. Yeah. It's so cool. It's a rad idea. Yeah. 

[00:35:46] Alyssa: Little, little female protagonist. Action. Love it. What's the target like? Age range for it? 

[00:35:52] Caitlin: I would say it's about like six to 11. I think it says six to 12. 12 year olds might start to sort of be aging. It depends on your 12-year-old, but um, yeah, I'd say about six to 11.

[00:36:05] Alyssa: Cool. That elementary school right? It's a chapter 

[00:36:07] Caitlin: book. It takes like, it's an hour long. 

[00:36:09] Alyssa: Okay, cool. 

[00:36:10] Caitlin: Yeah. 

[00:36:11] Alyssa: Cool. Sweet. Awesome. Well thank you Caitlin. Thanks for hanging and she, and about what this work looks like in real life. 

[00:36:18] Caitlin: Loved it. Thanks so much for having me. 

[00:36:21] Alyssa: Stay tuned after this note from our sponsors.

[00:36:23] Rach and I will be right back with the breakdown.

[00:36:30] Last night just had like a total shit night of sleep. And sleep has been something I've really been prioritizing in my life in this season. And I've been getting like eight to sometimes 10 hours of sleep, which is insane, but like a minimum of eight. And last night I got seven hours of sleep and I feel like I got four.

[00:36:49] Like coming off the heels of like postpartum. It's not like I'm that far out of having a young baby. I've barely been sleeping through the night. And it's wild how quickly I'm like, yeah, this is how I'm supposed to feel, right. With like eight or nine hours of sleep. And then once I don't have that. I realize how insanely hard it is to function off of Leslie.

[00:37:14] Rachel: It's wild because when you're in it with a kid who's not sleeping, your body does adapt. And you get to a point where like a four hour chunk, you're like, I could run a marathon. I could run a country. And then, then when you start sleeping for real again. Mm-hmm. And like your kid, like let's say you can't sleep, or your kid wakes up sick and you're up for like an hour with that kid, the next day you feel like you got hit by a 

[00:37:36] Alyssa: truck.

[00:37:38] Hundred percent. I'm like, my brain cannot function today. I had seven hours of sleep. This is not like an emergency, but I cannot function. And I also look back and I'm like, did I have postpartum depression or was I exhausted? Like maybe both. But the idea of having less sleep than this, which I did consistently had five to six hours of sleep a night starting in early pregnancy.

[00:38:07] For then what, two years? Of course. I hated everyone and everything around me. 

[00:38:13] Rachel: I don't know how like looking back, 'cause my sleep was so broken with both kids. 

[00:38:18] Alyssa: Yeah. 

[00:38:19] Rachel: How did I do life? And it explains why I felt very like sad and drained a lot of the time. 

[00:38:25] Alyssa: Yeah, a hundred percent. A hundred percent. There's a thing I wanna share and I don't know how to share.

[00:38:32] I'm just like, you do you, you watch New Girl. 

[00:38:35] Rachel: Mm-hmm. 

[00:38:37] Alyssa: You know Nick, the main character and he just does the like awkward moonwalk. Yeah. Like that's how I feel in figuring out how to share this. I had shared about how we were doing an appointment with SJI and got the results back and it was all an autism assessment.

[00:38:54] He is autistic and. I wanna share that 'cause we hold no shame around it and I don't want him to have any shame around it. And we share so much about how his nervous system works and how beans works and all that jazz that I think it's important context to have. And because I think it is something that in fact his like doctor that did the assessment, there were two doctors, but the one that we met with for like the results feedback session said that his profile often goes undiagnosed for a while because he has very high IQ and 

[00:39:35] Rachel: high emotional literacy.

[00:39:36] Alyssa: Literacy, yeah, exactly. Where like he could sit there and say to you like, I feel mad that you did X, Y, and Z and he has a lot of skills to be able to navigate the world. And so she was like, it often goes undiagnosed because he. Has such a high iq. He can communicate a lot of things and has been able to figure out things like, oh.

[00:40:06] People have asked me to like look at them sometimes when I'm talking to them. And so I'm gonna look towards you, but I'm actually gonna look a little off to the side. But it feels for you as the receiver, like I'm looking at you. 

[00:40:19] Rachel: Yeah. 

[00:40:19] Alyssa: And I know you're not an office fan, but there's an an episode where Jim is like looking just above or beyond right.

[00:40:27] And he's like, meet my eyeline, Jim. Meet my eyeline. And as she was describing this about Sage, I was like, I mean I picture Sage 

[00:40:33] Rachel: doing it, like when I'm talking to him. Yeah. He points his face at me. Mm-hmm. And then just looks a little bit to the side of my face. Yeah. 

[00:40:40] Alyssa: Where he's like, I know I have to look at you, but really don't wanna look in those eyes.

[00:40:43] So what can I do here? And so he's figured out so many things Yeah. That are helpful for him. But I was chatting with another friend of mine who has a sensory sensitive human and as we were chatting about Sage's results and for the, what they said in terms of why he received the diagnosis and what they observed, she was like, ah, this is so much like my son.

[00:41:07] And I was like, yeah, for sure. And they are very similar humans. Mm-hmm. And she was like, I never would've thought autism. Mm-hmm. I just thought, oh, he's sensory sensitive. And so I, I wanna share about it because I think that delineation can be helpful because a, a lot of autistic humans are also sensory sensitive.

[00:41:27] Mm-hmm. And not all sensory sensitive humans are autistic. Mm-hmm. And so being able to see like that differentiation, that sensory sensitive doesn't mean autistic. And also it can, you can also be autistic. Yeah. Yeah. Um, 

[00:41:46] Rachel: well, I think about Abel who's sensory sensitive, but not, not autistic. 

[00:41:50] Alyssa: No, not autistic.

[00:41:52] And I mean, from our nonclinical diagnosis. But we, I would, I wouldn't, but if you watched him, him wouldn't have crossed my mind. No. Right. I wouldn't have even pursued a diagnosis as Abel's parent and. Versus like s 

[00:42:06] Rachel: when you told me you were pursuing a diagnosis, I was like, yeah, 

[00:42:09] Alyssa: yeah, for sure. 

[00:42:12] Rachel: With love, like there's no shame there.

[00:42:14] A hundred percent. It's just like get that boy the tools and support. 

[00:42:18] Alyssa: Mm-hmm. 

[00:42:18] Rachel: As he's moving into school age, like just a rad decision for him. 

[00:42:22] Alyssa: Thanks. Yeah, we, that's what the impetus was for us was that as he's gonna be going into kindergarten right now, his childcare program has been phenomenal at supporting him, and they are down with anything that we say like, Hey, I think this could be helpful for him, or, this is what we've noticed about how his brain works.

[00:42:45] Or he could use extra time with these things. I'm smiling, 

[00:42:47] Rachel: thinking about pictures you sent me of him in childcare. 

[00:42:52] Alyssa: Where you play the game of like find sage. It's like all the kids are doing yoga and like he's over on this mat, way over and he obsessed licking at, yeah, hundred percent. Oh, love him. But like he has a spinny seat that he uses that they let him just like bring to the rug and he doesn't have to participate in circle.

[00:43:13] In fact. So Astute, his first preschool teacher, our first meeting we ever had together, she was sharing about him and like his routines in the day and she said she was like, I've noticed that for him it's actually easier for him to retain the information that we're talking about at circle. If I don't ask him to participate in circle, we do ask that he's over at the rug.

[00:43:38] He can be on his spinny seat, he can lay on his belly. He doesn't have to join in the dance break or sing the song or answer a question. And she was like, I found for him that when I don't ask those things of him that later when I'm chatting with him, he's retained all of it obsessed and he can have that back and forth.

[00:43:58] So good. And just like, oh, she's so phenomenal. Andrea Love and now he's at a new preschool program this year that again, like we came in and they were awesome. Their questions were all around like, when do you want us to stretch his rubber band? In what ways do you want us to stretch it? Like what skills feel important for you to be working on with him?

[00:44:23] Uh, are there times of day that we should work on those that are easier for him to stretch? Just like so attuned and incredible and he actually, the very first day they had like circle time. It's a bigger class. So his first preschool, he had max eight kids in the room, usually closer to six this year.

[00:44:42] It's like a normal preschool size of 15, 16 kids. So it's more kids. And they're at circle and he started to cry at Circle and he's on a spinny seat. And he had Slothy and he was rubbing Slothy on his face and his teacher checked in with him and he was like, pulled away. He didn't want her to touch or talk to him.

[00:45:01] And she had offered headphones and he didn't want them. And he was crying. And then they were going outside after, and she made up a job and was like, oh, Sage, before we go out, can you just help me with this thing real quick? I, I need some help. And he loves a job. And so he stayed in and was helping her and she was like, I noticed you were crying over at Circle.

[00:45:23] Uh, do you wanna talk about what was going on? Was it too loud? And he was like, it was too loud. And actually one of his favorite words right now actually. I wanna tell you, this is different than my old school did, and I wanna tell you what we did at my old school. And she like listened. And then she said, you know what do you wanna just share with me today or any day this week?

[00:45:46] Or anytime If there's something that's different from your old school, if you wanna tell me about it, and then if you notice things that are the same, you can tell me about it. And he was like, yeah. And that is just for him so phenomenal. Because what's different is what's so challenging when there are changes in his routine or patterns.

[00:46:04] And to just have a safe space to share that of, mm-hmm. Oh, I can just talk to you about this. Even though it's not gonna change for him to be able to have a space to share, like, oh, this is different. And so she said throughout the day he would be like, oh Caitlin, this is different than we did at my old school.

[00:46:20] Or he would be like, wait a minute, this one's the same as we did at my old school. I love that. And they were connected. Exactly. Yeah, exactly. And so he has this environment right now and we don't know if he'll be at a school where he'll need a 5 0 4 or an IEP to access the supports. Mm-hmm. And tools and services that he needs.

[00:46:44] And on a systems level, that drives me nuts because every kid should have access to what they need without an IEP or a 5 0 4. Exactly. A hundred percent Jimy Christmas. One of the schools that we at c do a lot of work with, I had just said this to the admin team and to the teaching team, I was doing professional development for their like back to school time.

[00:47:03] And I said, one of the things I love about working with this school is that if we step in and we're like, you know what? I think this kid could use this seat, or they could use a soft start, or they could use X, Y, and Z to help their nervous system be in the most regulated state, it can be. They aren't like, oh, well it's not on the 5 0 4, right?

[00:47:21] There isn't an IEP for this. They're like, yeah, totally. It's going to ultimately help this child be as regulated and successful at school. Let's rock and roll. 

[00:47:29] Rachel: Totally. Which then by proxy makes teachers' lives easier. 

[00:47:34] Alyssa: A hundred percent, 

[00:47:35] Rachel: right? A hundred 

[00:47:36] Alyssa: percent. Uh, but we don't know what we'll walk into. And so that was the impetus for us was just like kind of getting prepared for kindergarten that if he is gonna need an IEP or 5 0 4 to have the supports or tools for how his brain works.

[00:47:49] Mm-hmm. I mean, he's a neurodivergent human in a neurotypical world. And so, um, yeah. It's that 

[00:47:54] Rachel: advocacy that you're doing so that he gets to feel safe and supported. 

[00:48:00] Alyssa: Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah. And I know I like said something, I answered somebody's question in stories the other day. They were wondering about, uh, big kids if like the big kids and tiny humans if they work for neurodivergent kids.

[00:48:12] And I was like, literally, yes. This is what I do in my household every day with my autistic child and my neurotypical child and long time seed followers. Like caught that and I haven't like shared about it and I a bunch. Yes, I noticed that you tucked 

[00:48:25] Rachel: it into a response and I was like, okay, um, yeah, 

[00:48:29] Alyssa: I'm gonna share about it.

[00:48:29] Well, I was like, yeah, I do want, I think it's important for people to know that yeah, this is exactly what we're doing with my autistic child as well. Well, I think so 

[00:48:37] Rachel: too. And like also having that just, I think it was kind of cool how you just tucked it into an answer of just like, this is my, this is my kid.

[00:48:48] Like this is my life. And not just for talking about how the books work for it, but just normalizing like. It's okay. 

[00:48:57] Alyssa: Yes. This is our family. Yeah. There's no shame in it for us. Uh, and we don't up him nor should there 

[00:49:02] Rachel: be for anyone. 

[00:49:04] Alyssa: No, no. Agreed. And yeah, but I got bunch to dm so I was like, I'm gonna, I'm gonna say it to the general pop.

[00:49:13] Um, 'cause a bunch of people were like, wait, did see? Did you get a diagnosis? Yeah. Wait, did I miss something? Mm-hmm. Uh, it felt like a pregnancy announcement that was slipped into something. So I was like, I guess I should just say it. Uh, yeah, yeah, yeah. I am grateful. We, we actually, we were super fortunate.

[00:49:32] We went through UMass. Um, the wait list in Vermont at UVM was like a year wait list, which obviously is not on UVM and is entirely on not having enough resources and support to, to do this. I'm sure doctors aren't like, you know what, let's just have a year wait list. That would be cool. Um, but man, we need systems improvement here.

[00:49:54] Yeah. 100%. Had an awesome experience at UMass. They were super supportive and incredible, and I hope that we can continue to do work as a nation systemically to support pediatricians in being able to screen for this more accurately under the age of five, which we don't have great screenings for. Yeah, 

[00:50:14] Rachel: streamline that a little bit.

[00:50:16] Alyssa: Yeah. Sarah Beth Broder, Fingert, Dr. Broder Fingert is a pediatrician. She does research and autism. She actually runs the clinic at UMass and she does this work on a national level of like helping states improve their early identification of autism. And I hope to see that spread. 

[00:50:36] Rachel: Mm, for sure. And removing the fear around identifying it in younger children.

[00:50:41] That's it. Yeah. 

[00:50:42] Alyssa: That's it. Yeah. That like for us, it just means services and support so that he can thrive. 

[00:50:47] Rachel: Yeah. 

[00:50:48] Alyssa: Yeah. Who do we get to chat about today? 

[00:50:51] Rachel: Okay, today it's Caitlin. Big Time Adulting. Oh yeah. Caitlin Murray. Sweet. Um, this was a fun episode and I think for me it really got to kind of, the core of my goal as a parent is like really to just be in relationship as a person with mm-hmm.

[00:51:11] My kids and understanding that everything that I say, everything that I do when I'm interacting with my kids, it all happens within the context of our relationship. And so the specific words really don't matter. What matters is that like foundation of trust and safety. Then like I can just show up as myself, which means like sometimes I am gonna mess up and, 

[00:51:38] Alyssa: and just be weird.

[00:51:39] Right? Like 100%. I love how weird she is. I love that she is just down to be weird and do a silly joke or, you know, just like tickle your kid if that's like a way you guys connect or whatever. Yes. And that not everything has to just be buttoned up or prescribed. Just showing up as like your real weird self.

[00:52:00] Rachel: Yeah. And like that I think is being in like authentic relationship is like 

[00:52:05] Alyssa: Correct. 

[00:52:06] Rachel: I think, you know, we talk about this a lot, how there's been this pendulum swing from like eighties and nineties parenting to now we have parents who are like walking on eggshells around their kids, like feeling like if they say, be careful or you're okay, that like they somehow don't have secure attachment anymore.

[00:52:23] So there's just like a lot of fear and, and when you're operating from that place, you're not showing up authentically. And so it's this like barrier to connection. Mm-hmm. And I, I'm thinking back to my own like. Time as a parent and like Caitlin had shared that with her first kid, she really wanted to do things like buy the book.

[00:52:43] Mm-hmm. And I felt that a lot too. Like I really wanted to be like prescriptive about how I, I wanted to be a good mom. I didn't wanna mess up, I wanted to like do right by my kid. And like, the longer I've been in relationship with my kids, the more I reject that I think and just wanna like show up as myself so that they feel like they can show up as their selves 

[00:53:07] Alyssa: and that you can be in actual relationship with each other.

[00:53:10] Uh, the school actually that I just did that professional development for, we've done so much work with, they're so rad. And there's this young teacher, he's maybe in his third year of teaching or so, and he has a superpower for connection. Mm-hmm. Like that. He absolutely slays it. His name is Hunter and he is.

[00:53:31] So good at it because it's not gimmicky. It's not, Hey, do you wanna high five or fist bump when you come into the classroom? It's that he has a nickname for this kid, or he knows that this kid plays football. And so he's like, oh man, how was a big game last night? Like, what was going on? He's actually connecting with them.

[00:53:48] He's in relationship with them. He's got silly jokes or silly games. He knows who to push when and how because he knows them. 

[00:53:57] Rachel: Mm-hmm. 

[00:53:58] Alyssa: And at the very beginning of the school year, we did classroom observations, came into his classroom and it was bonkers. It was absolutely insane where we were like, whoa, okay.

[00:54:08] And then a couple months later we came back in and I was like, who's classroom is this? What is happening in here? Everything was like, chill, calm. I mean, they're first graders, so it wasn't 

[00:54:20] Rachel: totally, that's relative quiet. Yeah. 

[00:54:23] Alyssa: But they were regulated. They were connected at the beginning of the year. He didn't have that connection with them yet.

[00:54:30] He put the time in and the effort in to really know them. And it showed, and I think from the school perspective, we want these kids to come in and like learn the rules and have a regulated classroom that doesn't feel chaotic and yada yada. And I fully get that. And relationships take time. Genuine connection takes time to understand somebody, to know somebody, to get to know them takes time.

[00:54:58] And as you pour into that, that relationship deepens. And then you do get to kind of reap the benefits of it where they're more collaborative. Often you can mess up and enter back into connection with them because you already had connection in the first place. 

[00:55:15] Rachel: Right? And that, I think is, that's the key here is like if you don't have the foundation of connection and authenticity, then.

[00:55:24] You are gonna continue to do things that create more disconnection. Mm-hmm. And one thing that I also took from this, as we're thinking about like being authentic with our kids, is understanding that that might mean that you are interacting really differently kid to kid. Because I think there's also this idea of like, we need to treat everybody the same.

[00:55:44] Let's keep things fair, fair. And like I'm just thinking about last night, Abel was dysregulated. Second week of school, came home, was clearly hungry, but. I couldn't eat 'cause he said his throat felt funny. Um, come to find out, he had been doing funny voices and so it was like a little bit hoarse. And so he was like, I'm too hot.

[00:56:07] I need to take my clothes off. I can't eat. I don't know what to do. I'm stressed. He's, you know, he's crying and saying all these things. So 

[00:56:12] Alyssa: I'm like, just like pause. The most classic interceptive sensitive reaction. I'm hot, I can't eat, I, my throat hurts. Like I notice all those internal cues on such a heightened state and now I'm, now everything is just screwed.

[00:56:24] Freaking out. 

[00:56:25] Rachel: Yeah. Yeah. So I'm like, I try a couple different things that I think will be easy for him to eat. It's a no, it's a no, it's an out. And I'm like, alright. I know his blood sugar's in the toilet. So I'm like, you know what? I'm gonna get you a bowl of ice cream and turn on a show. Perfect. So we get the ice cream down, he asks for real food, which is what I thought would happen.

[00:56:40] I was grateful that it worked out that way and. Then, you know, once his nervous system was a little bit like back together, he really wanted connection. And so I was like playing this tickle game and like pretending to eat his cheeks and whatever, and he's eating it up and asking me to keep doing it. And I was thinking about how like if I had done that exact sequence of events with Nora when she was dysregulated, first of all leaving her alone to watch a show while she's dysregulated, that's the first problem.

[00:57:09] 'cause the girl needs to talk punishment for her. Yeah. The girl needs to talk and connect and then physically touching her as the second part of that and playing a game where my like voice and lips and mouth are really close to her. Like that is just like a hard no. And so I think like part of this moving away from like scripts or feeling like you need to say these exact words and this exact tone is really like, what do you know about your kid?

[00:57:35] Like what do you observe about your kid? Meeting them in that instead of worrying about what you quote should or shouldn't be doing, that's how you get that like close relationship where then you do get to just be a human and show up and mess up and repair and laugh together and be silly. And all of those like vulnerable things that we want in our relationships with our kids.

[00:57:57] Alyssa: Mm-hmm. A hundred percent. That like, that connection is the foundation for regulation and we only get to like, mess up and come back into relationship when we've been in relationship in the first place. 

[00:58:12] Rachel: Right. 

[00:58:13] Alyssa: You know, I think of like if I'm in the grocery store and somebody like says something rude to me or they did something that's outlandish, I'm not like.

[00:58:23] Navigating repair with them to come back together? No. You're like, 'cause we were never in relationship. Yeah. You're a psycho. And I, because we were never in relationship. Right. They're like, in order to come back into relationship, you have to have been in relationship in the first place. You have to be connected in the first place.

[00:58:40] And I love how Caitlin, she knows her kids. Yeah, 

[00:58:43] Rachel: she does. She knows 

[00:58:44] Alyssa: what makes them tick. She knows who's gonna be her dance partner, who's not gonna be like, what fires them up. And that you don't have to show up in all those things. Right. Like if one of my children ends up into like a d and d Dungeons and Dragons, ugh.

[00:58:59] I can't imagine a world in which that's exciting for me. I might not show up with them in connection in that way. Right. It's like. 

[00:59:07] Rachel: You're not down for rescue missions. 

[00:59:10] Alyssa: Bless up. Um, LOL, the autism screening. She's like trying to get him to play a different type of way. No, there won't be like, oh yeah, here's a food truck.

[00:59:21] Like we can pretend it's an ice cream truck or whatever. He's like, yeah. And it's on fire and it needs and I can come rescue it. Yeah. What's up? Everything Special interest. 

[00:59:32] Rachel: Um, yeah and I think like giving yourself permission too. 'cause there's like stuff that I just can't, like if Abel wants to play cars and he wants to like crash them into each other and like wants to dictate what my character car is saying, uh, it's like two minutes passes and I'm swear to God it's been two hours.

[00:59:51] Like I can't, I hundred percent physically cannot. Mm-hmm. But then there are other ways that are so easy for me to connect with them. And I think, like we talk about this in big kids, this like idea of a connection blueprint and understanding like. How do you as a parent connect with others? What makes your kid feel connected?

[01:00:08] Is there a mismatch there? Right. And that doesn't mean that like you're gonna play Rescue Mission every time, but it's like we're doing some detective work to figure out like, how can we both feel connected in this situation? In fact, playing the car game actually disconnects me. 'cause I'm like, I hate this and I don't wanna be here so much.

[01:00:26] Like, I so 

[01:00:26] Alyssa: much, 

[01:00:27] Rachel: I don't wanna do this and now I'm kind of mad at you. So I think like finding, which I would obviously never tell him that, but that's just like, 

[01:00:37] Alyssa: but also a little bit, I'm mad at you. 

[01:00:38] Rachel: It's an internal reaction where I'm like, pissed that you keep wanting me to do this. Um, so I think like that's part of showing up authentically too, is like, and I've said to Abel, like, buddy, I, when I play cars like this, it makes me feel so tired.

[01:00:57] I'm so tired. Like I, my body feels like it needs to be done. I'll be like, can you think of anything else that we could do together that we both enjoy? And then he'll like list some stuff and I'll be like, yeah, let's go. Let's go outside. Let's go. Yeah. Like a 

[01:01:14] Alyssa: hundred percent. Yeah. I love this because he and I are such a mismatch on sensory and connection that it really does take my intention to be able to be in relationship with him in an authentic way.

[01:01:28] Mm-hmm. That fills him up. Right. Like, he'll do things that also I like, but it doesn't fill him up. But he does, he really likes like his arm tickled or his back tickled and I seek touch. Mm-hmm. And so if we're gonna like lay and watch a show together or like when we watched Free Willie for the first time recently.

[01:01:47] I love this. We get to hang and watch a movie while he asks 8 billion questions about what's going on. Well, 

[01:01:54] Rachel: it's the first. It's the first viewing, 

[01:01:56] Alyssa: so Correct. That's what he's gonna be doing every first viewing. In fact, recently we were invited to like go to the movies with people to watch movies. You're like, I can't.

[01:02:05] Oh yeah. No. Unless it's a movie he's already seen. First of all, it's gonna be loud. There's so much that's gonna be happening. But also he will ask no less than 8 billion questions the first time he watches something and then he just wants to watch that again and again and again. And I was like. If Inside Out or free Willie or mm-hmm.

[01:02:22] Elf are playing in the theater, like, sign us Up, Nemo, these are the ones he's seen. It is very into Frozen. Uh, we've already answered all those questions. He can just obsessed just sit in the theater and watch them. Uh, but we were like watching Free Willie and he snuggled into me and I was like tickling his arm.

[01:02:40] And we both, he then asked me to do his bedtime that night. Hmm. Until we got to the point of actually doing bedtime. He wanted me to bring him up and get him ready, but then he was like, actually this is, can you get Dad, dad knows how to do the next part. And I was like, also know how to do the next part, but yes.

[01:02:58] But that was like, yeah. Huge. He really felt connected in that. 

[01:03:03] Rachel: Yeah. And finding that a way to connect with your kid that doesn't drain you and make you resent them, um, is, and make you resent. Can you tell that the car game, it was like a thing for a really long time. Mm-hmm. I feel it's just like, stop asking me.

[01:03:21] I hate this. But finding ways to connect in ways that are mutually cup filling. 

[01:03:29] Alyssa: Yeah. 

[01:03:29] Rachel: Because then you keep wanting to go back and do it again and again. 

[01:03:33] Alyssa: Totally. A hundred percent. And the reality is sometimes I'm doing a rescue mission, sometimes you're playing with the cars. Totally. And it's just not filling our connection cup, 

[01:03:42] Rachel: which is okay.

[01:03:43] It's okay. Totally. Um, but like bonus points when it's like a mutual thing. Yeah. Because then you really feel connected. I at least I find for myself, like I leave playing cars and then he's dysregulated and I'm like, Ugh, come on man. Yeah. Versus like we do something that's mutually connecting and then he does something inconvenient and I'm like, yeah, I have the bandwidth for this.

[01:04:05] I can stay regulated here. Yes. 

[01:04:07] Alyssa: Because I didn't just spend all my bandwidth playing, trying not to murder you during class. The 

[01:04:11] Rachel: worst game ever. Yeah. Yes. Exactly. So it's like there is that push pull of like, sometimes you just need to be the parent and do something you don't wanna do because your kid really wants to do it.

[01:04:22] And also sometimes you don't do that. 

[01:04:26] Alyssa: Correct. Yeah. Yeah. Ugh. Love, love this, and stoked because the day this episode airs, I believe is the day that we're hanging out with Caitlin in person where we're, we've got a book tour stop, uh, up in Scarsdale, New York, and gonna do a little fireside chat with Caitlin for Big Kids.

[01:04:47] Super excited, stoked for that in person time. Yeah. Thanks Caitlin. Thanks for keeping us laughing over on the worldwide web. Thanks for tuning in to Voices of Your Village. Check out the transcript at voices of your village.com. Did you know that we have a special community over on Instagram hanging out every day with more free content?

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