The Ever-Changing Parenting Game and the Allure of “The Best Choice” with Sophie Brickman

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00:00:00 Alyssa

You're listening to Voices of Your Village and this episode I got to hang out with Sophie Brickman. She is a writer, reporter, and editor who has written for The New Yorker, The New York Times, The Wall Street Journal, Elle, The Guardian, San Francisco Chronicle, and other outlets. Her work has also appeared in The Best Food Writing and The Best American Science Writing anthologies. Her first book, Baby Unplugged, about the intersection of technology and parenting received a starred Publisher's Weekly review and landed her a spot on Good Morning America. Plays Well with Others is her first novel. Y 'all, I'm here for this. I just like felt so seen in it, all about like parenting and our parenting journey. And it's nominally about applying a child to kindergarten in New York City, but it's so much more than that. It's really a story about becoming a parent, specifically for us in like this age where we are so inundated with information and decisions. And it so beautifully navigated this conversation with humor and it's lighthearted. And I'm actually going to also listen on audiobook. I started the paperback. And, you know, I'm in my fiction era this year, where my commitment to myself was not to consume educational material in the evening because it got my wheels spinning and it wasn't helpful for me unwinding. I was like, nope, I'm going to dive into fiction. And I have been doing so with audio books. It's been my jam. So if you too are an audio book human and you wanna dive in, it is available on audio book. It's called Plays Well With Others by Sophie Brickman. All right, folks, let's dive in.

00:01:56 Alyssa

Hey there, I'm Alyssa Blask -Campbell. I'm a mom with a master's degree in early childhood education and co -creator of the Collaborative Emotion Processing Method. I'm here to walk alongside you through the messy, vulnerable parts of being humans raising other humans with deep thoughts and actionable tips. Let's dive in together.

00:02:18 Alyssa

Well, I, as I was sharing with you, am in what I'm calling my fiction era. I feel like for so long for the podcast and just because I'm really nerdy for this stuff, have been reading nonfiction and work -related books. And this year I was like, I need to not always be reading a book for work. I need to be able to like unwind with a book. I miss having done that. It has been so long since I've done that. And I started entering into my fiction era and have read five fiction books this year, which is more than I'd read in the last almost decade, which is embarrassing. And so when this came in, I was like, yes, a fiction book that's also about parenting, let's go. I'm so excited to get to chat with you today. What led to you being like, yeah, I wanna go from journalism to fiction?

00:03:18 Sophie

Yeah, it's really lovely to be here. Thank you for having me, first off. I think I was a journalist, I mean, I've been a journalist by training ever since graduating from college, and I worked at the Chronicle in San Francisco, and I freelanced for a lot of places, and I've worked as an editor a lot of places. And my first book was spurred by the birth of my first child, who's now eight. I now have three, but my husband's in tech and he brought a lot of tech home that was supposed to kind of make the first few months or years, you know, easier and more calm for a parent. And I was a little bit overwhelmed by all of it. And so I decided to turn my journalistic chops towards something that would benefit me. And then luckily my agents were like, well, we think it can benefit more people than just you. So I spent a lot of time interviewing experts about, you know, what technology can hurt and how it can help and how you can really use it. And I love that process. But unlike you, I would come home at the end of the day, and like, all I wanted to do was read fiction. And I didn't want to even read the book that I had written. And I kind of just wanted to dive into a different world, and preferably one that would make me laugh or feel some emotion. And so when I was trying to figure out the next project after the first book came out, you know, I think in some way, for certain types of writers, it's always a dream to write novel and that's sort of like the Mount Everest and I hadn't really written fiction in any real way since college and I had a couple different ideas and I thought I'm gonna give myself a few months and just see. Like see if I have a voice see if I have a story to tell and when I got the right angle which was much more humorous than I had originally thought, I, it sort of just came and I had this kind of this incredible creative experience of just writing in a very freeing way because it wasn't, I could just make it up, which was, you know, crazy for somebody who's been a journalist for so long.

00:05:10 Alyssa

I can say whatever I want?

00:05:12 Sophie

Yes. And like change people's storylines in the middle and really kind of mine my own life for things that I found sort of funny or crazy. And so that's what led me to start writing a novel. And I'm very excited that it's out in the world.

00:05:27 Alyssa

Yeah. Rad. So can you share a bit with folks about what Plays Well with Others is about?

00:05:33 Sophie

Yes. It's a satire about a woman who loses her mind applying her four -year -old to kindergarten in New York City. But really, that's just sort of a lens and sort of a humorous lens into talking about the craziness of being a parent, and the love, and the hormones, and the logistical nutsy-ness, and just kind of the heightened emotions that you experience when you are raising children, which I think is applicable, or I hope is applicable to people that are like far outside the Tri -State area and who can sort of look at this and smirk and think, you know, what crazy people who live in New York and have to go through various problems like this. But, you know, really it's about coming to terms with being a parent and sort of learning how to be a parent, which is an ongoing process as I now know, you know, eight years in, it just keeps changing.

00:06:26 Alyssa

Sure, sure. And I think like, you're right, do so well of navigating it through humor in here. Before I started diving in, I just was skimming through to get the vibe of the book. And there was one spot that I stopped on that I was reading that made me laugh out loud. It was about the birthday party of like, do I have to invite all these kids to my kid's birthday party? What if they don't even want them if they want the five kids there. And we recently encountered this, that like, you know, every school has a different rule of how that works or what you do. And it's just these little like vignettes into parenthood and the absurdity that can come with it and all the 7 million decisions that we have to make outside of, yeah, what do we want for them in life? It's like, who's going to be invited to the birthday party and how do we navigate that? And how I feel like all -consuming it can become when we can take a step back. We're like, are we just talking about a four -year -old's birthday party though? Like at the end of the day, is that what we're talking about?

00:07:40 Sophie

I think often you kind of, it's hard not to miss the forest for the trees when you're getting bombarded by all of these social expectations and questions about what is right and what is the best way to be a parent, or the best way to navigate this moment. And then you look up and you haven't really been spending time with your kid, or haven't been connecting with them or whatever. And like, this is the birthday party question, I sort of dodged because my first born was like not very into birthday parties. So she was like, I just want to go out for dinner with you. And like, we can get pizza and we can get an ice cream cone. And I was like, this is amazing. I don't have to actually do it.

00:08:14 Alyssa

Done and done.

00:08:15 Sophie

But you know, not everybody is, you know, born 40 years old when you're only 4. So, you know, that thing that you stopped on was a letter that the main character, and she's an advice columnist for a parenting website or a website and she writes about parenting. And I wanted also to capture kind of the number of different media forms that you as a modern parent have to navigate. So like that's, it's told in bits and pieces and there's a through line and a through narrative that I hope carries people through I don't know very much about this woman's story and what she wrestles with, but there are emails and there's WhatsApp chains and there's notes from the school and there's these little letters and there are newspaper articles. And I feel like our lives are, they're fractured and constant. And so that's all of the little decisions that you have to make as a parent just get kind of exacerbated because you have so much incoming input that you have to filter and figure out if it's important or not important. and it just takes a toll, I think, particularly, I mean, you're in the thick of it now, like, particularly when you're nursing and not sleeping, and kids are transitioning from cribs to whatever, you know, there's always something and the phases just keep changing. So that was something I really hoped I was able to capture in a way that would make people recognize themselves, but also make them laugh at the absurdity of, you know, our everyday.

00:09:41 Alyssa

Yeah, I feel like you did a really good job of that. I wrote in Tiny Humans Big Emotions at the beginning of it, I outlined like what I think it means for me to be a good mom and there's three different criteria that I look into and like ask myself about because I found myself in that space where I'm like oh yeah I'm scrolling and I'm like I should be cutting my kids food into shapes for their lunchbox or like it should be like this or whatever. All these things that at the end of the day when I stepped back I was like actually, that doesn't matter to me, right? I actually don't care about that." But you can get so stuck in it and I love that acknowledgement of like, I'm planning all these things and realize like, I'm not actually just connecting with the kid in front of me and the whole purpose was how can I be this parent that I want to be or the quote, "best" that I can be at this. My oldest, my three -year -old, he would choose to just hang out with us and not any other kids every day of his life if he could, like loves just doing his own thing, hates being in a crowd. And so I attempted this year, same thing. I was like, I'm just going to put this question up to him for the birthday. And surely he'll just be like, yeah, I just want it to be us and Nana, and we're going to be home. And he was like, he said, I want all my people there. And I was like, totally. Who are your people? Again, expecting he's going to be like mom, dad, his sister, Nana, Dolly, whatever. And he was like, I want my kids from my school to come. And then he names literally every friend we have in Burlington. And I was like, damn, okay. Cool, cool, cool. It's not how I thought that was going to pan out. So sweet.

00:11:30 Sophie

But then you wonder if you just tell them, like, we're going to do this little thing, if he'll be just as happy.

00:11:35 Alyssa

Oh, a hundred percent.

00:11:35 Sophie

There are lots of ways ways to navigate that moment. And I think we're really the first generation to be parenting where social media is constant. And so you're constantly getting these reminders of people who are doing it better or doing it, who are cutting their things into shapes and whatever. And it's like, it's hard, it's really hard not to get sucked up into that. But ultimately it's like, it's your relationship with one little person. That's the thing that should be guiding it.

00:12:05 Alyssa

Legit. Yeah. And that like, really, he gets the best version of me if I'm not stressed out planning his birthday party, and I can just hang out with him at his birthday. Yeah, 100%. When you were writing Baby Unplugged, and you were going in and like diving into the tech pieces and all that jazz, what were some things that you found through interviews that that people found really helpful from the tech side. I feel like there's so much I could name that I'm like, ugh, this wasn't helpful. What was it that you found that was helpful?

00:12:42 Sophie

I mean, you know, it's been a while since I've talked about that book, but the line that I used to use, which sounds very like smug and cute, was like the most advanced technology that can be the best, best thing for your kid is a book. You know, like in terms of actually things that are going to help your child thrive and survive, like technology is not going to really do that that much and that there are ways to use it, you know. And often, you know, watching television with your children and certain types of programming that can be sort of slower and there are less quick cuts and less crazy music, generally the stuff that will drive you less insane as a parent, that can be a wonderful experience and like shared media consumption can be great for sure. You know, the book mostly focused on much younger, like younger children. And for that, you know, there are a lot of claims out there about how you can enrich your kids lives by giving them games and certain things online. Ultimately, like boredom is really good for kids. Quiet is really good for kids. Like they will find the magic in the boring stuff around them that they can create into new toys and games. And like, that's what you really want to kind of push for which I think is very relieving or should be very relieving for parents. It's like the simplest stuff really is like the most enriching and the best for them. And so when it comes to different types of technology and games and, you know, early learning of reading and whatever else, like, let them play, let them pretend, read to them, like, that's all the best stuff for them. For parents, what I found, you know, the book is in two different parts of sort of the technology for the children and the technology for the parents, like monitors and things that can help with nursing and whatever else, I found that for some parents, and I interviewed a lot of parents, for some parents it really is calming to have the Nest system on which can monitor your child in a certain way and you can watch them when you're at work and you can do all these sorts of things. For most parents, it raises the anxiety level. It's a part of our daily life. Like I have a Nest camera so I can see my kids if I need to when they're napping, but I don't need to, you know, like it's a question of what really makes you calmer. And I think it's hard for parents to actually take that step back and be like, I think it makes me calmer, but actually, if I think about it, it really makes me a little more agitated, or I'm constantly thinking about them in a way where I should just be focused on work and then be present with them when I'm with them, or whatever the case may be. And there are outsize cases for sure. You know, a good friend of mine had a very premature baby who was in the NICU for a long time and is thriving and wonderful now. But when the baby was released from the hospital, like she had had 24 hour care, professional care for weeks. And then they were like, she's fine, take her home. And it was a very different experience than I had, which is my, you know, my baby was born at 40 weeks and we stayed overnight for two nights and we came home and that was overwhelming in a totally different way. but a much more generic way. For her, having something that monitored the heart rate that you could get online was wildly comforting to her. So I think the takeaway was like, you don't need to be using this technology, but if it helps you calm down, then whatever works, go for it. Most people, I think, just get a little bit more agitated by it though.

00:16:15 Alyssa

That's what I found for myself was that for Sage, my oldest, I had an app where we would track all the things. And it got to the point where I was like, why are we recording his diapers? I think part of it too, I came from working in early childhood where we had to record stuff all the time, anytime somebody ate or they went to the bathroom or they napped or whatever. So part of it was like, this is in my comfort zone, right? It's like just recording and keeping track of that data. And I also, as a human, love data. And so I was like, doing it, we're on it, and all of a sudden I was like, oh my God, I don't need to know that he nursed for seven minutes on the left side last time I nursed him. Like, I, at this point, can feel a boob and be like, yeah, he nursed on the left side last time.

00:17:03 Sophie

The cure for that is both experience and like, more kids. Like, my third kid, I'm like, you kidding me? Like, I'm not gonna record anything. Like, I think you're eating because like, you're gaining weight. And that's all I need to know. So that's why pediatricians can be so helpful because they're like, I wouldn't send him home from the hospital if he wasn't strong enough. I wouldn't, they check them at very particular intervals because those are the intervals that matter. So when you as a parent, I think one of my takeaways from the first book and also just like with experience now is it's like you're grasping for control. Yes, you want them to have the best environment possible and thrive and everything, but you want to have some control so you can say like, bedtime's at 7, so at 6 .59 he's going to be off my boob and in bed. And like, great, more power to you, but then one night he has a fever or, you know, one night the light is too light or whatever it is, it's like it just keeps changing and so I think, you know, technology for sure is an attempt, a futile attempt to control a human and like you can't control a human and I think with time, as a parent, you start to realize like, you got to lean into that, you got to lean into that fact that you're not certain about everything. And you have to kind of like learn to relax and hopefully enjoy it.

00:18:23 Alyssa

100 %

00:18:24 Sophie

And I think, you know, you're learning to trust your gut more as you as you have more experience under your belt. And you know, moving back to the, the book that's coming out and the novel that's coming out, like I really wanted to capture that feeling of sort of overwhelming uncertainty and love and bombardment of different conflicting emotions and wanting to control the situation and knowing that you couldn't and having so many different inputs to your life and competing, you know, end games sort of, that it makes you feel kind of at sea or it can make you feel at sea. And for me, like what I tell parents of like new parents, it's like, it took me a year with each kid, not to the day, but almost a year to feel like I had my sea legs again in terms of like, okay, this is my new normal. And now I can focus on these other things or now I can give myself a break. And part of it is hormones and part of it is sleep. And part of it is a new identity. And part of it is like the shifting foundation of having a family that is expanding. And so I wanted to try to write that experience and put that into words of like feeling at sea and feeling like you're trying to find yourself, which I think so many mothers go through. And I mean, if they say that they aren't going through it, then like they can't hang out with me because I don't believe, you know, I think this is a transformative experience and there's no way that it's gonna be not rocky along the way. And so that really was, you know, in the book, she sort of starts to unravel and it was both fun to watch, you know, to write the story of a woman who was unraveling and sort of getting more and more unhinged because, you know, then she was taking risks that I feel like and saying things that she really wanted to say and that all of us would really want to say to like that other mom at school who's like really just the worst. And that was sort of humorous to do, but it, you know, my hope is that it speaks to sort of a deeper, more universal feeling of being at sea, of trying to find yourself amidst this new sea change that is becoming a parent.

00:20:39 Alyssa

I like that marker of like a year. Sage was a few months old and I reached out to our director of operations and I was like, I think I want to sell the business. And she was like, totally. She's a mom of three. She was like, totally. Yeah, let's for sure. Let's start to get things in order. Let's get stuff together. And I was like, awesome. Great. I'm going to sell it. It's not what I want to do anymore. Then it came around. He was about nine months at this time. We're getting things in order to like, all right, we're going to sell this. She was like, I have a couple of things coming up. Just personally, can we just wait until it'll I guess be close to Sagey's first birthday and then we can go and we can pitch. So perfectly done by her. She didn't have things personally, she was kicking this can down the road and when he was about one, I was like, actually, hang on, pump the brakes. Maybe I don't want to sell. Maybe I do want to do this. It was just a year of that transition of my attention and focus isn't on work. It's at home and it's on my body making milk for this human to stay alive and all those just parts of initial parenthood in that first year. And then after a year, I was like, yeah, actually, no, it turns out I really love this work again, and this is great and fulfilling, etc. But it was this like one year mark. And so after I had Mila, a couple months in, I was like, I don't know, and she was like, you want to sell the business again? And I was like, okay, thank you for this reminder, this is a temporary feeling. I will love doing this again, at some point.

00:22:24 Sophie

Yeah, like you start you either come back to the thing that you loved, or you find a new way into it, or you understand things more. But this idea of like, you know, we don't need to take a left turn towards maternity leave policies and support for parents that doesn't really exist in America, but like this idea that after x number of weeks, you're just going to be back in the saddle. It's like it's really ludicrous because there are more important ways that you should be spending your time and you should be able to give yourself that time to figure it out. That is taken away and we're not allowed to have that time, which is really, really detrimental for everybody. One of my friends had to, she was a resident and she had to go back after five weeks and she was pumping and keeping her milk in a rolly fridge, what are they called? Like one of those coolers, because there was no place to store it in the hospital. And I was, and that, and then like getting on the subway with it and coming home. And I just, like that image is so, it's so telling because it's clearly insane and it's clearly not the way that it should work. And yet that's what she was forced to do. And you know, I was working at a magazine when I had my first and I had to be back after six weeks, and it's just, it's very hard. So, you know, to me, you know, not making any rash moves until a year trying to like, get yourself back to a new normal and knowing that the normal is going to be quite different than it was before is, you know, helpful as a -

00:24:00 Alyssa

Totally. Yeah, but I think that's the message I wish I would have had. I've worked in the field of early ed and with parents for a decade and a half, and I just wish I would have had that message. I guess going into having Sage, we left things pretty open of like how I would come back, how much I would come back, when I would come back, in what capacity I would come back. And I have an awesome team that was really supportive, so I was like, I don't know how much I'm going to want to or what I'm going to feel a pull toward. My master's is in Early Childhood, tiny humans are my jam. And ultimately realized, yeah, full, full -time isn't for me, part -time, and then in different ages and stages that has ebbed and flowed. It was part -time in that first year and then I was ready for a little bit more and felt more fulfilled at work and working there, but having that flexibility was such a gift for me coming back to work of like, I didn't even know if I'd want to or what that would look like. And it is so, so hard that we, I mean, yeah, we don't have to take that left turn, but that we don't have policies that support this. But I guess for me as a parent coming into parenthood, what I wish I would have heard more of is what you want at the beginning might be different than what you want in a year or two or three years. And that's okay. That like, it's okay to be like, yeah, my attention isn't really, even if you do go back to work to just be like, yeah, I'm probably not going to be the best at my job for that first year. And like, that's okay. That your brain isn't there, your body really isn't all there, all that jazz, just to give that flexibility.

00:25:54 Sophie

Absolutely. Yeah. It's just a setting of expectations, I think, that we often are not allowed to give ourselves.

00:26:01 Alyssa

Yeah. But I have a friend who was like, oh my gosh, I just feel like I am not slaying at work. And she has a six -month -old right now. It's her first kid. And I was like, yeah, for sure. No one who has a six -month -old is slaying at work, I think. I think that that's the norm, right? But I think that's a conversation that doesn't often happen.

00:26:22 Sophie

Absolutely.

00:26:24 Alyssa

Yeah. Yeah. So now, with these three tiny humans of yours, if you were to look back to eight years ago, you coming into parenthood, what do you feel like is the number one message you needed?

00:26:41 Sophie

Be kind to yourself, I think. Like cut yourself some slack. You know, you're learning something that you've never done before. And with every kid, like you have more experience, but it's a different kid. And then you have two, and then you have three, it's like you kind of keep reinventing the wheel. And I think instead of feeling, you know, I'm relatively type A, and kind of relaxing into the journey and relaxing into the uncertainty of it and sort of being open to the amazing things that kind of crack open in you when you have kids and when you are you know able to build a family is you know it's not it's not always natural and it doesn't always happen immediately but it's a gift. And I think, you know, I was very very concerned about my career when I had my first kid because that was like a really big part of my identity and I was afraid I would never be able to write again or I wouldn't be writing the way that I wanted to or my attention would always be scattered, and I've written two books because of them. That was what allowed me to take a big swing and write my first book, and I had something that was really important to me and really meaty and book -length and longer than an article that I could throw myself into, and so that happened. And then after that book, I was like, I'm never going to write another book again. And then I had this idea, and it happened pretty quickly. And so I think these fears that we have, they're not not rooted in reality, but so many amazing career things happened for me that I could never have dreamed of happening because of my kids. And my biggest fear was they were going to make it impossible for me to work. And I have an extremely supportive husband who is very, very, very involved in the kids and nowhere near as involved as me, because that's just kind of how the cookie crumbles for many of us. Some of it is biological. I was nursing. There was more that I had to do and he couldn't participate. Some of it is cultural. Some of it is how his job is a little bit less flexible than mine. There are a million reasons, but it didn't hit him the same way that it hit me, which I think is really, really common. And you know having a couple friends that I really trusted who were a little bit farther along in the journey was very very helpful. I think I kind of taken like a left turn from your original question but like one other thing that I think I would have told myself is like pick one or two people to be your Rabbi, to just be the person that you go to for help. It can be your own mother, it can be somebody else, but like searching for answers on the internet or searching for answers from many many people it's like it's exhausting and and it's not really how you're gonna get there. Ultimately, you have to make the decision for yourself, but it kind of becomes less arduous if you have one or two people who are like, yeah, give them pacifier. Like, no, don't give them pacifier, instead of wasting time thinking about stuff, which they can feel like they're of outsized importance, because all you're trying to do is do the right by your kid, which is a very, it's a strong north star that can let you go down deep rabbit holes that are a waste of your time.

00:30:01 Alyssa

A hundred percent where it's like, at the end of the day, does that thing matter?

00:30:05 Sophie

Yeah.

00:30:05 Alyssa

It's like, but what if it does, Alyssa? What if it does? I'm like, oh my God. It probably doesn't. It probably doesn't matter. The other night I was on Amazon, he needs a new lunch bag. And I spent 30 minutes just going through different lunch bags. And then my daughter woke up and needed to nurse, and I handed the task off to my husband. I was like, he needs a new lunch bag. His is ripping, like he needs a new one. I started this, can you just find a lunch bag? And I came downstairs seven minutes later and a lunch bag had been ordered in our Amazon cart. And I was like, oh, how lovely it must be to just be like, yeah, doesn't matter. Let's get this one. This is great. This checks all the boxes. What was I doing? Why did I spend a half an hour looking for what, the right lunch bag? Are you kidding me?

00:31:01 Sophie

Because Amazon wants you to, and because that's how it's designed. Like I think it's hard to resist this pull of thinking that there's something like very -

00:31:10 Alyssa

He resisted it really easily. He was just like, done, lunch bag, doesn't matter.

00:31:17 Sophie

And I mean, I think in that case, it's like obviously, you know, good not to care about the lunch bag, but there are other things where, you know, it could matter. and--

00:31:26 Alyssa

Totally

00:31:27 Sophie

And I think yeah I think that we're you know I'm very wary of saying that we are in a particularly hard situation as millennial parents I think that other generations of parents have had it very hard in very different ways but like all I know is this experience and and I you know I think it's a lot to juggle the inputs. So yeah, so I mean like one thing you know you started off saying that you hadn't read that much fiction and stuff, but you had wanted to. One thing about this book that I was able to write it relatively quickly and also that I hope it's going to be a benefit is, at the end of the day, there are lots of different parts in it. And so you can dive in and dive out. And I think that both I was trying to capture this sense of input coming in, and also I was thinking about the reading experience, which at the end of the day, if you have 30 minutes before bed, but actually you're gonna fall asleep in eight minutes and you kinda wanna just go on TikTok and watch somebody chop up salads or whatever, which is the only thing that I'm being fed for some reason now. My hope is that you will jump into this and get a little hit and a little laugh before you go to sleep.

00:32:44 Alyssa

Yeah, honestly, consuming fiction at nighttime has been the jam for me. And I have largely been doing this in audio book form. Is your book gonna be an audio book?

00:32:57 Sophie

Yes, it will, absolutely. We have a wonderful reader who is recording.

00:33:02 Alyssa

Awesome, perfect. So that is literally how I've consumed all of my books because I can start it and then if baby wakes up and I need to go nurse, I have an AirPod in and I can keep listening while she's nursing and I'm not like in the dark trying to read or like, oh, I have to set it down and come back. It can continue. And now I'm nursing and listening to a book and like it has been the best. I feel like it like fills my cup so much. And yeah, it has actually led to like less scrolling for me for sure.

00:33:35 Sophie

That's a huge win. So yes, this is like a book is actually gonna be available in audio book form for all of the nursing mothers out there.

00:33:42 Alyssa

Thanks, from me to you, thanks. I love that. Well, I'm super stoked to have this out and it is so funny. I did get to start it in paperback form I held a it's a first physical like fiction book. I've even like attempted a physical copy of because I've met myself and it is funny you've achieved that for sure and I think it's rad to just have a conversation about parenthood that is light and where we can laugh our way through it because it there's so many billions of decisions we're making all the time about these tiny humans. And I feel like it helps it right from the jump. I was like, oh, I feel so seen here. I'm just like the absurdity of it.

00:34:30 Sophie

That makes me really happy. I mean, if you can't laugh about it, what's the point, right?

00:34:35 Alyssa

Correct, correct. We've got to be able to laugh about it. Thank you so much, Sophie. Where can people find you, connect to you, learn more about you?

00:34:44 Sophie

I have like terrible social media presence because I'm scared of it all, partially because of all of my reporting about things that can happen online. But I have a website, which is just sophiebrickman.com. I'm on Twitter, not very well. I'm on Instagram, not very well. But you can definitely find me if you just Google my name. And, you know, I do promise that anybody who writes to me through my website, I will write you back because I really enjoy writing. And I love like connecting with readers and people who are interested in this stuff. So reach out to me and I will respond.

00:35:16 Alyssa

Thank you.

00:35:17 Sophie

Thanks so much.

[Music]

00:35:24 Alyssa

Due to travel schedules, there is no breakdown with Rach at the end of this episode. We'll see you back next week.

Connect with Sophie:

Website: https://www.sophiebrickman.com/

Order the books: Plays Well with Others: A Novel;

Baby, Unplugged: One Mother's Search for Balance, Reason, and Sanity in the Digital Age

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