How To Gain Cooperation Without Resorting to Threats with Ralphie Jacobs
00:00:00 Alyssa
You're listening to Voices of Your Village, and today I get to bring a special guest to you, someone I have followed online for a long time, and it was lovely to get to chat with. We get to hang out with Ralphie Jacobs from Simply on Purpose. Ralphie lives in Austin, Texas with her husband and their four daughters. As an early childhood education expert, Ralphie quickly learned that the best way to impact a child's life for good is to teach parents. She founded Simply on Purpose where she's built a community of over 650 ,000 families and writes about parenting, family culture, and living with purpose. Her audio course has changed thousands of homes and she travels across the country speaking at workshops on positive parenting. She and I got to chat about how to gain cooperation without resorting to threats, something that can come so quickly, right, where we're like, oh, if you don't do this right now, then you're not going to be able to watch TV or you're not going to be able to have dessert. I think for so many of us, we grew up with that and so it's so ingrained and being able to pivot away from that can feel really challenging. I'm so glad I got to dive in with Ralphie and I'm super jazzed to share this episode with you. If you are finding value in this podcast, if it's helping you, if it's serving you, please take a moment to rate and review it. It helps other folks find our podcast so they can have access to free support on this journey as well. You're the bomb. All right, folks, let's dive in.
00:01:37 Alyssa
Hey there, I'm Alyssa Blask Campbell. I'm a mom with a master's degree in early childhood education and co -creator of the Collaborative Emotion Processing Method. I'm here to walk alongside you through the messy, vulnerable parts of being humans raising other humans. with deep thoughts and actionable tips. Let's dive in together.
00:01:59 Ralphie
How are you? Thanks for asking me to be on here.
00:02:02 Alyssa
Yeah, for sure. I'm doing pretty well. I have a almost eight month old who just is in her first round of COVID. And, I know, we've traveled and saw family for the last two weeks and came home and we had seen my grandma, so her great grandma, and the day after we saw my grandma, she got diagnosed with COVID. And then my little Bean has it right now, but she's fairin' all right.
00:02:30 Ralphie
She doing ok?
00:02:30 Alyssa
She was kind of a mess and now is turning a corner. So, yeah. But it was, you know, nights of like sitting up in the chair and holding her to sleep because she's coughing and can't. So we're all ready for it. We're ready for a family nap. But otherwise good.
00:02:50 Ralphie
Family naps are sacred.
00:02:53 Alyssa
Sacred. How old are your kiddos now?
00:02:58 Ralphie
I can't believe it, but they're 21, 18, 14, and 10.
00:03:04 Alyssa
Nuts.
00:03:05 Ralphie
Crazy.
00:03:06 Alyssa
That's wild.
00:03:08 Ralphie
It is wild.
00:03:09 Alyssa
I started following you years ago. I was trying to remember how I found you. And I cannot believe it's been that long because the girls were definitely not 21 and 18 and 14 and 10.
00:03:24 Ralphie
I know, I tell you, like time marches on. It doesn't stop for anyone.
00:03:30 Alyssa
I love hate it.
00:03:32 Ralphie
Right, exactly. It is like, I know people say it's a thief, but I don't know, I feel like it gives us gifts too.
00:03:42 Alyssa
Yeah, and there are seasons that are hard and I'm like grateful that time moves, you know? And then there are seasons where I'm like, ooh, I just wanna freeze it.
00:03:53 Ralphie
Right, exactly, exactly. Yeah, something I say all the time is today is not forever. It's a good thing and it's a bad thing.
00:04:00 Alyssa
Yeah, it's so real, so real. Well, I'm excited to chat about what collaboration looks like without resorting to threats. I think that there's this idea for folks that if we like say all the right things or do all the right things that A. our kids are always gonna be willing participants and be like oh I can't wait to collaborate with you on all these things and B. that if they don't that we failed and now need to use something like a threat to get them to do something. And so I just want to have a real have a conversation about it.
00:04:43 Ralphie
Yeah, both are true, right? It's that we think that if we check all the boxes, we stay calm, we say nice things, we've played with them, we've told them they're wonderful, that they will be compliant, obedient little robots. And that's just not how kids work.
00:05:03 Alyssa
No.
00:05:04 Ralphie
And that's not how people work, right? Right. All of us produce a lot of junk in our lives and we try to get control of things, we push limits, we see how far we can go.
00:05:17 Alyssa
For sure.
00:05:17 Ralphie
Yeah, and to also try to just get the things that we want out of life. And so I think that children aren't immune to that at all, just because they're little bodies are still humans, just like we are. And they have those same desires that we do to be able to live their own lives and not be told what to do and live on somebody else's agenda all the time. So I think that something that's really important to remember as a parent is that it's really not our job to get our kids to behave well all the time. It's our job to create an environment in which it increases the probability that our children will behave well, and that we are doing all that we can to help build good behavior. Doesn't necessarily mean that our kids are gonna behave well all the time.
00:06:05 Alyssa
Sure.
00:06:05 Ralphie
And I actually think that it's a good thing that our children push is because they feel the safety to do so. And that's part of growing their brain is they have to learn how to make good decisions and how are they going to do that- by making lots of bad ones first.
00:06:18 Alyssa
For sure. That's where we learn.
00:06:19 Ralphie
Yeah. So, I mean, that is the reality. But it is hard. It's hard to separate your sense of self from them and their own behavior. But sometimes I have to remind myself that good parenting is the decisions that I make, not the decisions that my child makes.
00:06:40 Alyssa
I love that. I love that. When I look at collaboration, one of the things that comes up for me at the cornerstone is relationship. I've always been the human, I have four brothers and five kids in my family growing up, and I was always like boundary pushing or, but tell me why. I want to understand the why. And for me, collaboration comes with relationship. That when I feel in relationship with someone, I'm more likely to collaborate. I'm more likely to say like, okay, I'm happy to do this thing that for you, with you, even if I don't really want to do it for me. And so when I look at kids and thinking of my three and a half year old, he is way more likely to collaborate, even if it's something he doesn't really want to do, If I have first poured into our relationship, but like if I come through, you know, I come downstairs and usually his dad gets him up in the morning and they start the day together and his sister and I join when she gets up. And when I come downstairs, if I'm like, all right, buddy, we got to get ready for school and like get your clothes on and go potty and et cetera. And it's all these like task demands without first connecting with him and being in relationship with him, he's immediately like, no. You know?
00:08:11 Ralphie
Yeah. Yeah. Why would I?
00:08:12 Alyssa
Right. But if I first like snuggle in and I'm like, hey, buddy, did you have any dreams last night? Or it's so nice to see you. And I connect and like pour into our relationship first. Then when I'm like, okay, it's going to be time to get our clothes on. Do you want to try it yourself? Or do you want to help with this or whatever it's going to be for the how but then he's more likely to collaborate if I first poured into our relationship.
00:08:39 Ralphie
That's so true. I think something that I try to do is say yes, as often as I can. And it's not that's the same kind of idea, right, is that when I do ask my child to do something, or I say no, that it really means something that it really matters. And that we've deposited all of this emotional safety into their bank accounts, and a believability and a trust love like factor.
00:09:08 Alyssa
Yeah.
00:09:08 Ralphie
So they want to and they believe us and there's buy in because we have developed the relationship like you're talking about. It's, I think relationship is more important than behavior.
00:09:23 Alyssa
Agreed. And I think that they go so hand in hand. And I was thinking about it with him as he became a big sibling, right when when Mila was born, and the times where he was like, willing to do something, and like, go grab a diaper for her or be a participant in the family structure as it was new. And really like when we could pour into him and say like, you are such a thoughtful big brother. I noticed that you did X, Y and Z. And then when we say, hey, bud, can you help me out and go grab a diaper for sis? Then he's like, sure. Because we've already laid out the like, you're so thoughtful and like poured into him there. Not with the goal of him getting her diaper, but just to fill him up.
00:10:16 Ralphie
Right, right. Well, that's like, you know, I teach positive parenting, and that is one of the most important principles of it is to look for what's good in your child and speak light into them and, and highlight all the good things that they do. Because when, when we do that, it fills them with strength and empowerment, and even an ability to work on their weaknesses. And it helps with like all behaviors, like when you ask them to do something for you. It's just like, yes, I am because you've spoken this truth inside of me. You've said I am behaving better than I even can see myself behaving. And so I'm gonna continue to walk that path with you because I believe what you say.
00:10:57 Alyssa
Yeah, exactly, I love that. The looking for the good and I think that feels good for all of us, right? Like if we're around somebody who sits down and tells us like, I noticed you're so mindful of these things or you take such good care of this you're so present in these ways, it feels good to receive that. And then in turn, I'm open to that human. I feel connected to them, my spirits are raised, and I want to live into that truth that we become who we here we are, right? And so if we hear we're lazy, and we're defiant, and we're stubborn, and we're whatever, yeah, we might live into that too. Versus if we hear we're kind, and thoughtful, and empathetic, and creative, and curious, like we'll live into those too.
00:11:44 Ralphie
Yeah, it's just such a strong way to stay connected with your child and to have such a positive relationship and feed into that relationship is when we spend way more time looking for what they're doing well than what they're doing wrong. And there's, I mean, it's just so well researched and documented through brain science and behavioral science that parents are five to six times more likely to look for what their children are doing wrong. Because this is part of our primitive brain, you know, we like poke it out, we want to weed out their weaknesses and make them better and fix all the things that are going wrong. But and because of that 95 % of the good that our children do is ignored, because we just think like, well, that's as it should be. Leave well enough alone, that old parenting advice that's terrible. There's actually a quote from the International Encyclopedia of Education that says that it's far better, the best way to reduce problem behaviors is to reinforce good behaviors. It's kind of like, oh my gosh, not only does it help me connect with my child and builds that connection and I can ask for things in the future, but it also helps with the behavior that is bothering me in the first place. So if I can just connect with them, then most of the behaviors that bothered me that I was going to result to using fear and punishment and threats, I don't even have to pay attention to those because they just wane on their own as a child feels better and feels seen and feels loved for who they are.
00:13:21 Alyssa
I think what can often come in the way is that the challenging behaviors, if the root of the challenging behavior is from a place of connection seeking and wanting to feel like they include and they belong, often when they do those frankly annoying behaviors or inconvenient behaviors to ask for attention or connection, I think a lot of us grew up in cultures where attention seeking was like a bad label, that that was a bad thing to need attention or connection. And so we see them and we are like, well, then I'm not paying attention to you if you're doing these things. And it can disconnect us from the child. And I was just chatting with my friend the other day and she was sharing, just having a hard afternoon with her child, a preschooler. And she was like, yeah, but when she does those things, the last thing I wanna do is be around her. I don't, like, I'm not having a good time here. This isn't fun. We're not like connected. And I was like, totally. And then the challenge of seeing the good and I think highlighting those parts that we want to see more of is when we get stuck in that space where we're like, no, I want to just close off from you because I'm so frustrated with these challenging behaviors. And then they just keep asking for attention in other ways.
00:14:47 Ralphie
I think it's smart for a parent to realize, oh man, my patience is shrinking to the size of a pea and I have nothing left, I think it's actually better for the relationship for the parent to leave, calm down, recenter themselves, take deep breaths, say some mantras if you need to, eat some chocolate, whatever you need to, and then you go back with a cleaner head, a clearer viewpoint and perspective. And I think that part of that is also modeling for the child, hey, when we get upset and and we keep battling it back and forth. We say things we don't mean. I say things that I don't mean. And so I'm gonna self -regulate and then I'm gonna come back. And I think that there definitely is value in that is saying like, I'm really bothered right now. And it doesn't necessarily have to be, I'm bothered with you and you are driving me crazy. This is a story about us, right? This is a story about what we can handle and what we can't handle. And so it's more about like, I'm feeling frustrated right now. This is my emotion that I'm dealing with. And so I'm going to go and self -regulate and come back. But I also think that parents, even within the frustrating things that their children are doing, like, let's say, for example, like a kid is marching up the stairs and yelling, you know, like, I hate this family. I'm so sick and tired of everybody telling me what to do, you know, but they're marching up the stairs to go into their room to calm themselves down. But while they're doing it, they're like yelling at everyone. I think that a parent's job is to kind of like in your mind's eye, like go to the balcony and like watch this as if it's a play, right? And if it's a play, then you can say, oh, this is what the person should say. And you're taking your emotion out of it. And you're also like sifting through all the negative things that they're doing, the behaviors that you don't want to reinforce. You find one thing that you do want to reinforce. So when we deny a reinforcement to a conditioned behavior, that doesn't mean that you're ignoring the child. That means that you're not giving a lot of attention to the misbehavior, like, oh, stop hitting your sister. Why do you always have to do that? You're such a bully, blah, blah, blah. You know, like you're always yelling, stop hitting, you know, no, stop jumping on the couch, whatever. All of those things are pointing at the behavior you don't want to reinforce. You don't want to put energy towards those. And the research says that those are actually, like parental attention is the number one reinforcer for behavior. So like what we do instead is we move the behavior along and we say to the child that's going up the stairs and yelling while she's going up the stairs, thank you so much for going up and finding a calming place and calming yourself down and come on back when you're ready. So you sift through all the negative junk and you find something that you can, that you can point a finger to and say I really appreciate that this is what you're doing or like you know a kiddo that is jumping on the couch you say come on down and let's go outside and jump outside. So again, you're pointing the finger toward the behavior that you want to reinforce toward always building skills for a better future for that child.
00:17:52 Alyssa
Sure. Finding the yes, what they can do and not just what they can't do.
00:17:56 Ralphie
Yeah.
00:17:56 Alyssa
Yeah. I appreciate that. One of the things that I find so helpful in building the self -awareness components, we talk a lot at Seed about regulation, about the nervous system, helping kids understand what makes them tick. My three -year -old will tell you that swings help his body feel calm, and they make my body feel sick, right? We talk about how all of our bodies are different, and what makes our bodies feel bonkers can be different, and what makes our bodies feel calm can be different. And one of the things within this is that need for connection and attention, and being able to, as the adult, acknowledge, like, oh, I saw you hit your sister. Were you looking for my attention or I can think back to like Sagey when he was a one -year -old sitting at the table and he was poking me in the hand with his fork all throughout this like mealtime when I was chatting with my husband. And I kept being like, buddy, please don't poke me in the hand with a fork. That hurts my body, right? Like over and over as I'm like in conversation with Zach. And then finally, I was like, oh, do you want my attention? Are you poking me because you want my attention? You can say or you can do and then finding that yes, but being able to call attention to that of like, I think this is what your body's asking for. And here's what you can do to communicate that instead. And then that just evolves at different ages and stages of what that yes is. But that self -awareness for them to start to learn, why am I doing this?
00:19:22 Ralphie
I think that's great. It helps them to turn it into like more of a self -defined person rather than other people defining you or whether you're good or bad or naughty or helpful or kind or sweet or easy. It helps them to think, this is who I am, this is how I feel, this is what I like, this is what I don't like, this is what I care about. This is me being assertive, this is what this looks like and how I can become an agent in my own life and be the CEO of my life rather than have clients direct me all the time and tell me what to do.
00:20:06 Alyssa
I think it also breeds empathy. Like we have seen then in, even again with our three -year -old, that then he'll bring it into other relationships where he'll get curious about what does that person need or what are they trying to say? And he'll ask us that, what does that person need? Why are they yelling like that? What do they need? And sometimes I'll say like, oh, I think they're still learning what it feels like to feel frustrated and what to do with frustration and that their need is that skill set for how to calm their body. They're still learning that. But I think you can breed that empathy where they can start to see that behavior is a communication of a need. And whenever we are seeing behavior on the surface, whether it's your own or somebody else's, that the somebody else's isn't actually about you. And how that then parlays down the road when we are in elementary school and middle school, et cetera, and you see somebody else's behavior that might be directed at you. And being able to connect like, oh, I wonder what they need? Like, what is it that they're asking for? And I think it's a rad skill set to foster. I have a question for you when it comes to facilitating collaboration. You've chatted before about teaching your child how to make good decisions. Can you elaborate on that?
00:21:26 Ralphie
Yeah. Well, I think first of all, a good decision. It looks different for every family, you know. I think we all want our children to be kind and contributing members of society. But for your individual family, it just means that they're making decisions that help them to have a long, happy life, a life that's fulfilled, a life that there's lots of joy being brought into it by the work and the effort and what we can give, but also our expression of how we love and how we tend to ourselves and to other people. And so I think that teaching children to help make good decisions, it really does go into that connection piece. It's really, really difficult to teach children who do not feel connected. Um, there's research that says that people who are angry have a lower IQ and it's because they aren't thinking with their thinking brain, they're, they're using their amygdala, their fight or flight, and they just aren't using their cognitive skills or language skills or creativity, their empathy, they're not using any of that. They're just in a yelling, screaming, express and expel kind of moment. So especially for toddlers, if you're trying to teach a toddler when they're tantruming, you're not using your time wisely. It's frustrating for you. It's frustrating for the child. And so tantrums are just kind of one of those things that we let be, and we make sure that they're safe. And we say to ourselves, this is a natural and good part of toddlerhood. And it's okay for them to, to feel overwhelmed by things and then to express and expel that overwhelm through a tantrum. But to wait until a child is teachable and have that thinking brain come back online. So a great way to do that is to give them hugs to get down at their eye level to ask them simple questions, scratch their back, give them safe touch to help them to get back into that thinking brain and to connect with you. And that way we like wake up their curiosity, their compassion for us as well.
00:23:33 Alyssa
I think what's so key there is that note that tantrums or meltdowns or feelings are meant to be expressed and that we all have them in different ways. And I think our job as the adult in that is to be able to take that step back, you're right, like look at it as a play and ask ourselves like, what's the skill set that we're going to work on outside this moment? What is it that they're telling me they still don't know how to do yet? And or is it circumstantial? They were tired because it's almost bedtime or they're hungry or whatever. And it's now a sensory component that's at play. And maybe it isn't the norm. And there isn't necessarily a skill set. It's yeah, they were tired and we're going to give them grace for this. But I love that. And I think that like, that's what we can do in the moment, because to sit there, I mean, just this morning, Mila had a necklace she had found on the ground that's Sagey's and he came over and he tried to rip it out of her hands. And I stopped him said, Oh, I won't let you pull that out of her hand. And he dropped to the ground and sobbed saying, I never get to have anything in this house. And and like, you know, the big three -year -old, anything. I never get to have anything in this house. And it just like so big, so fast, right? And really in those moments to not do something, he's a human who's tactically sensitive. And so touching him when he's having a hard time is really hard for him. Adding any language when he's having a hard time is hard for him. He needs an adult to be near him and present, but to not touch or talk to him and to just let him feel. And it can feel like you're doing nothing. And so for me in those moments, what is like a helpful reframe because I want to do something is that what I'm doing is holding space for him to know it's okay to feel this. I'm keeping him safe and I'm keeping her safe. And that's what I did. He flailed around the room and I just essentially acted as the barrier between him and his sister. Like, oh, I'm just going to keep her safe. I'm not going to let you roll this way as he's melting. And then he said, I want to be alone. And just letting that play out and trusting them. And then for me, it's that pullback into, okay, when this moment is over, when we get to the other side of it, what is it that we're working on? And then being able to enter into that teaching moment as you explained here, but then I'm not going get him to collaborate in that moment of sharing the necklace. That in the moment when he doesn't get to have anything in this family, that's not the time that I'm going to be teaching him and saying like, hey, buddy, if you leave it on the ground, blah, blah. I'm not going into that right now because it's not the time to teach him this. I'm not going to get collaboration from him. And I think the other option there and the other end of the pendulum is the threat, the punishment that, well, if you aren't going to share it, then you don't get to have it and it's going to be her necklace, or I'm going to take it away from you and only she can play with it, or I'm going to put it away and no one can play with it, that threat piece. And I think it's really that desire for control for us to do something.
00:26:48 Ralphie
Yeah, exactly. I get so many DMs about, hey, what kind of a punishment would be good for this? Or what kind of a consequence would you use for that, that I can give my child for their behavior. And I really challenge parents to change their way of thinking. And you've said it really well, about if you remember that your highest desire as a parent is connection and relationship, and that you use love as a law, like that's just the law, is that we parent with love, then it helps guide your decisions, that we change, the question is not, what does my child deserve here? But what does my child need? And if you use that question, what do they need? Then it will really help guide your parenting. If your child needs you to hold a limit and hold a boundary, because that's gonna be the best teaching tool right now, then absolutely follow through, say, oh man, that's such a bummer that we don't get to go to the park today. You just didn't quite finish cleaning your room in time, but that's okay. We'll work on it again, and I bet you will be able to do it tomorrow, you know, following through with that, with empathy, but if your child needs you to show mercy, because they've had a bad day, like you were saying. Sometimes we confuse can't with won't, and sometimes our children just can't. Sometimes they are overwhelmed. Sometimes they're tired. Sometimes they need a nap, you know, sometimes they need a snack. Sometimes they need just a hug and a cuddle and a book to be read to them and not for us to ask them this, that, you know, like task master all the time and be on a war path or like, we're cleaning this whole house or it's going to be up in flames. I think that we need to remember that our children are human and sometimes it's a can't, it's not a won't. And so then we exercise mercy and we say, are you having a hard day today? Can I help you? Do you a cuddle? What do you need? Do you need a popsicle or whatever to help them reset? Show them the way through your model and then you move on with your day. So I think that that question always, what do they need? What do they need? How do I show them compassion and empathy, but also fill in that piece where I can teach them something here and that they come out on other side, being a stronger, better human.
00:29:16 Alyssa
I love that. The can't versus won't. We talk about it as like capacity versus task demand, right? Are the task demands beyond our capacity? And that, I mean, there are days where I get to the end of the day and I'm like, Zach, can you brush my teeth and put me to bed, right? Like I just want somebody to do that for me.
00:29:40 Ralphie
Oh man, I'm using that now.
00:29:40 Alyssa
I feel like I can't. And just giving kids that grace too. Does he know how to put on his own shoes? Yes. Does it mean he always can? No.
00:30:00 Ralphie
Yeah. And we don't get to decide. This is another thing that's true is that we don't get to decide whether they've learned that thing even though we've taught it to them five times, you know? I mean, how many times does the dentist have to tell us to floss, you know? We're like, oh, yeah. P .S. I'm supposed to be flossing. It's over and over and over, right? It's the same. We're like, okay. When you get home, we put our shoes on the shelf, you know? We put our backpacks up or whatever. I remember my dad saying, how many times do I have to tell you? And now that I'm a parent, I'm like, I know how many times. It's like a million times.
00:30:33 Alyssa
It's 700 million.
00:30:35 Ralphie
700 million times, we don't get to decide if they've learned it by the fifth time or the hundredth time. Our children will not learn when we're ready to teach them. It's when they decide that they're ready to learn. And so it's, we just have to be present and available and patient and be willing to reteach over and over and over and over again and help them with role plays, help them to practice it, actually physically practicing it. I'm a huge, huge fan of role plays because there's so many things we ask our children to do that they've never actually done in real life. I remember going to a elderly lady's house and my daughter came with me because she was supposed to water her pansies or whatever while she was gone. And this cute lady's like being super slow, you know? She's like, yeah, you take the bucket and you take it over here in the hose. Oh, I forgot the hose, let me go get it. She goes back. And my daughter's body language was like eye rolls, you know, the whole time, her arms like slumped forward, she's like slapping her forehead. And I was like, oh my word, this is so embarrassing. This is so embarrassing, you know? So of course I get home and I'm like, why did you do that? Don't you know that you represent our family when you leave this house? You know, all that stuff that we say. And I realized, I was like, oh, I never taught her how to interact with the elderly. I never, we never practiced this. I've never done a role play where I pretended to be an old lady, you know, and she's like, yeah, I'll help you get up on the step. Oh, your body's really slow. Okay. You know, and there's so many little things like that, you know, practicing, being assertive, practicing, filling somebody else's cup and saying something positive about them. Even though you feel jealous, you know, I mean, there's so many things that we ask our children to perform in reality when they've never had any practice. So role plays are phenomenal because there's this research that says it takes over, I think it's like over 500 repetitions in the brain before neurons fire and they wire together where new neural synapses have been created, unless you use imaginative play. And if you use imaginative play, it only takes 20 repetitions. It's phenomenal how much faster a child will learn if they're just using an imaginative play, and that is, those are role plays, just practicing them. And also, ps, it's an awesome way to connect with your child. Kids love it because it's like funny, it can be fun. You're only practicing the positive form, so they're feeling super like awesome about it. There's bonding with the parents and with the family. And so it just is, it checks all the boxes.
00:33:16 Alyssa
And I think one thing that you mentioned too, is like of not knowing when they've learned a skill, even if they have learned it and we're like, we know they know how to do this, having a skill and having access to that skill isn't the same thing. That we have a whole lot of skills that we don't always have access to when we have lower capacity. We don't have access to the same skills that we do when we have more capacity. Think of it at different seasons of life, like when I'm first trimester pregnant or postpartum, now my access to all my skills is less than it normally is because my capacity is less. And the same thing happens for kids. Their capacity is gonna be lower after school than it will be when they haven't just come out of a busy stimulating environment. And just recognizing that and giving that grace or when they've had a hard day or they're in a conflict with a friend or a peer or a sibling and recognizing that that drains them, it drains the nervous system. And giving them the space to not have to access all their skills all the time, that they get to ask for help really. So when we're looking at, say we have a scenario where it is time to leave the park and head home for dinner and the kid's like, no, I'm not going. I'm gonna stay right here on this swing. I'm not leaving, I'm not going to the car. How do we get them to the car without a threat?
00:34:49 Ralphie
Well, okay, two parts. First of all, I think that there's a really great, amazing superpower that parents have that we don't use nearly enough, and that is to predict the future. So if there's a really good chance that our child's going to do that, if you're like, yeah, you know, we've had this issue before, where they really struggle with transition, Then even before you get out of the car and you're sitting there, you're like, hey kiddo, look at all of those fun things those kids are doing. They're swinging, they're on the slides, doesn't that look awesome? We're going to stay here for 15 minutes and then we need to go and get dinner ready. So when I say five minutes, what are you going to say? Okay, mom. And when I say one minute, what are you going to say? Okay. And then when I say two more slides, what are you going to say? You know what I mean? So there's steps to that transition as well. We've set them up and we've said like this is what the picture is gonna look like and this is when we're gonna leave and this is how it's gonna go. Even if they don't perform awesome. At least it's going to be better, right? And the research says is that if we want our children to behave a certain way create a picture for them a little bit better than we do normally as we just kind of show them the hope of how the day will run or that activity will run and then they're like, oh, OK, this is how I'm supposed to respond. Oh, this is how it's going to go. I would also say that sometimes the point of the now is just to learn for the future. It's like, oh, man, I should have been proactive. I should have said something to them before we got out, and I'm going to remember that next time. Now, this time, I'm going to say something empathetically, and I'm going to hold my boundary, and I'm going to give them a little tiny bit of choice. So, I'm going to say, oh man, Sammy, you really want to stay here and you want to play because it's a really fun place to play. I get it. That makes sense that you really want to play. But we have people coming over for dinner in 10 minutes. We need to leave. So, would you like to go to the car by yourself or do you want me to hold your hand? So, there's still always a little bit of element of choice. Choice is the secret sauce. Choice helps children to feel like they have a little bit of empowerment over their lives even though they're still following our agenda. P.S., not very nice of us, but we always do it. And so I think that that helps. Again, he might scream and yell while you're holding their hand or you have to pick them up and move them to the car. But it is important to follow through with what you've said, especially if you think this is what my child needs. My child needs me to follow through.
00:37:28 Alyssa
A couple of things that you mentioned that I want to like really pull out there, the research on authoritative parenting, which is what you're describing here, versus authoritarian, which a lot of us grew up in, of that top -down, like, because I said so, is the authoritarian, and authoritative parenting- one thing that research shows within this is that understanding the why can help breed more collaboration. So what you just laid out there, like, oh yeah, validating their experience, but then we have someone coming to the house in 10 minutes for dinner. We got to go home and meet them. That provides that context for them of why are we doing this? And can then bring you into relationship again, rather than oh, we're just doing this because mom wants to go home, but I want to do this. And why do her needs matter more than my needs matter, right? And it can bring you together on that on that why. And so love that you mentioned that in part of the validation of breaking down the, why is this boundary a thing. And then the second one that they're allowed to have feelings about boundaries. It's not our job to set them and for them to be like, you know what, mom, I can tell you have my best interest at heart. Thanks so much. I'm going to be a willing participant that like, that's not how this is necessarily going to go and that they get to be bummed about it. And a part of us being in a secure relationship is allowing them to be bummed as you follow through with the boundary. Because then fast forward and you just experienced this or are experiencing this of teenage years when maybe they want to go and do something that you're saying, no, it's not safe. And I recognize your friends get to go and do this. And it really stinks to feel left out. And like, you can't go do it. And I love you. And it's okay to be disappointed.
00:39:15 Ralphie
Yeah, right.
00:39:16 Alyssa
And then over and over, they're gonna be disappointed or feel frustrated. it. And they're allowed to feel that, and it doesn't necessarily change the boundary And that you can lovingly hold it, that then instead of, you know what, we're not coming back to the park again. If you can't leave the park, then we're not coming back next time. That's the threat versus, would you like to walk to the car? Should I carry you? And the carrying you isn't necessarily peaceful. It's not like they're like, yeah, let me snuggle right in for this ride to the car.
00:39:49 Ralphie
Yeah, I mean, that's part of the bargain, right? The bargain is that wanting our children to have happy long lives is more important than always their goodwill. You know,
00:39:59 Alyssa
Yeah.
00:40:00 Ralphie
And that part of that is holding the boundary and saying this is this is what reality looks like reality has some confines to it. And we do need to show where we say we're going to show up and be places when we need to be there. But the bargain is that we hold boundary, but then we also have to be okay with their dislike for it. That's their job, right? It's their job to find where they are in that and to throw a ball up against that wall. Be like, oh, there's the wall. Yep. Mom has the wall again. Yep. That's the boundary right there. But we need to be able to be okay that they're throwing the ball up against the wall to just be like, yeah, this is where I begin and you end. This is the reality that's being created for me and to be okay with their dislike for it, because they are, they're just, our kids are not gonna love all the boundaries that we create, because you do have to hold space for that. There's so many things that they don't understand yet, and we have to keep showing them the why, and even if they don't believe in it, to hold space until they do believe in it, because they will eventually.
00:41:08 Alyssa
Yeah, for sure, and I think one of my parent roles in those moments, in the asking, okay, outside of this moment, what do they need to learn? What skill are they working on? Sometimes one of the things that we're going to come back to outside the moment are ways that they can express. It's okay to be mad. I'm not going to let you hit my body. If you're mad, here's what you can do. I'm not necessarily doing that in the moment when they're flailing. Sometimes I'm still going to hold the boundary. I'm not going to let them hurt me. But I'm not then teaching them new ways to express right now. Because again, they're not in that learning brain. And then later, sometimes I'm coming back and saying, earlier, when you were really frustrated with your sister, and you came over and you knocked over her thing, instead of knocking over her thing, when you're frustrated, here's what you can say or do. And, and recognizing that it's not practical to go from, I'm hitting and screaming to I'm calmly walking up and saying, Excuse me, Mom, I'm feeling really mad right now. Can you please come help me that there's to be mini stones to the milestones of how we express.
00:42:15 Ralphie
Right.
00:42:16 Alyssa
And that that's a skill we're going to continue to build. That maybe it's an eye roll from a nine -year -old right now, and we're then outside the moment saying like, okay, how can I support her with how else to express her feelings so that she doesn't roll her eyes at her teacher at some point? Or that she at least knows where the safe space to roll your eyes.
00:42:36 Ralphie
Right. Yeah. I really, really love that. And I think, remind me, you have a baby and a three -
00:42:42 Alyssa
And a three -year -old.
00:42:43 Ralphie
And a three -year -old, so you're still in that very much like redirection, right? Like constant redirection. And I think that that's awesome when they're building that scaffolding up to their prefrontal cortex, and they're learning so much, and all of those neurons are wiring together. When they get a little bit older into elementary school or early elementary, preschool. A great way also is to ask them, what are some ways that you would like to express your emotion that would be safe? And then when we ask those questions, they self -instruct, which is the highest level of learning when children or adults self -instruct. You learn so much better than somebody giving you the answers. So I've done this with my daughter before where she was just like screaming, you know, and she's like, yo guys, you know, she's kind of has like the zero to 60 personality and slamming doors and stuff. And so I remember talking to her about it and I'm like, what are some ways that you can, you can like use all of those big feelings up in a way that doesn't hurt. And she's like, oh, I'm going to like, you know, punch my fist, you know, like stomp and I'm going to like scream into a pillow. And I'm like, all of those are awesome, awesome ideas. And so yeah, yeah. Using that tool of asking them questions, ask a lot of questions, because it really does get their brain working. Brains like to be used, so.
00:44:13 Alyssa
Yeah, I love that so much. I'm currently writing our second book and the last one, Tiny Humans, Big Emotions, was for that birth to five range and this next one's kindergarten to fifth grade. And really that shift in their ability to be a part of the conversation and feel included in an ownership over their body is so huge. I appreciate that suggestion, that's rad. Okay, Ralphie, I love this. I loved hanging out with you. Where can folks find you, follow you, learn more about you?
00:44:46 Ralphie
Yeah, thank you. Thanks so much for having me on. Simply On Purpose is my handle on Instagram. I do a lot of new content there. I have a website called simplyonpurpose.org and I build webinars, I give free printables all the time and we have a subscription called Teach Me How where we build printables for children that are written for children to be the teachers. So they're written in like a second grade language. They're really fun and they teach children social and emotional skills. They're colorful and whimsical and have really fun activities. So there's that.
00:45:22 Alyssa
I love that. Well, thank you so much.
00:45:24 Ralphie
Yeah. Thanks for having me on.
[Music]
00:45:31 Alyssa
The other day I had one of those moments where I was like, oh, I have two different humans, two very different humans that I birthed. Oh, this is also an update on the reward chart, if people have been wondering. Okay. So the reward chart slayed, 10 out of 10 would recommend. We did, you know, he would get one Swedish fish if he stayed in his room until there's a seven, and I think 100 % of the time he's done that. We did have to add in a disclaimer that if he has to go to the bathroom, he can go to the bathroom and come back, because for the first time ever, he wet his bed. He was like, I didn't want to get out before there was a seven, and we're like, I'm so sorry. Sweet boy.
00:46:13 Rachel
I really want that Swedish fish.
00:46:17 Alyssa
And so I had to put that disclaimer in there, but yeah, 100%. And then we just like, he stopped asking for the fish. And then every once in a while he'll ask, he'll be like, can I have my Swedish fish or whatever? We're like, yeah. But we don't like mark the chart anymore. We don't whatever. It just kind of faded out, which is kind of the goal with rewards, right? That was my thing with this. I was like, I knew he had just developed a habit.
00:46:41 Rachel
Yeah. You're just building a new habit.
00:46:43 Alyssa
Yes. Anyways, so that's like, but he, the other day, he likes to pick the Swedish fish. They're all the same. It's a bag of red Swedish fish.
00:46:52 Rachel
Not to him.
00:46:53 Alyssa
He wants to pick the one. Correct.
00:46:56 Rachel
He's so Zach.
00:46:59 Alyssa
So Zach. It's insane.
00:47:00 Rachel
Like meticulous is the word that comes to mind.
00:47:03 Alyssa
100%. Particular. I have some more words. But he was like, can I hold the bag and I want to pick it in the other room. And I was like, I looked at him and I was like, you can only pick one. And he said, yeah, I know. With like a full earnest face, like I would never not pick one. He walked away with the bag and then he brought it back to us. While he was gone, I turned to Zach and I was like, just an FYI, number two over there, there's no way I would send her in the other room with her bag of fish. She would return with a mouthful of fish and be like, I don't know where they went. I can't find them. I lost them. And just like how, and it's so clear already.
00:47:54 Rachel
Oh, yeah. You can tell from early on.
00:47:56 Alyssa
Oh my gosh. She's so me. Ask for forgiveness, not permission and Sage is like, I need permission before I do, like I'm not leaving his room to go pee.
00:48:09 Rachel
1 ,000%. It's like I've said about Nora, who will literally tell me the most minute information for fear that she might have made a mistake. And then Abel the other day was like, mom, can I have cookies? And I was like, didn't you already have some? Didn't Ethan give you some? And Abel goes, no. And Ethan goes, yeah, I gave you three. I'm like, Abel. Just like different, just such.
00:48:35 Alyssa
Yeah.
00:48:36 Rachel
And that's just, yeah. That's like one of the -
00:48:39 Alyssa
It's literally how they are.
00:48:40 Rachel
It's how they are.
00:48:42 Alyssa
Mm -hmm.
00:48:42 Rachel
Yep.
00:48:43 Alyssa
Yeah. It is so. It was just one of those moments where as I was doing it with Sage, I was like, would have a different response for Mila.
00:48:55 Rachel
Yeah. They are so different.
00:48:58 Alyssa
So different. Oh my goodness. Yeah. Love them.
00:49:03 Rachel
Genetics are nuts. Like from the same two people,
00:49:07 Alyssa
Yeah. Nuts. Yeah, and just like sensory systems and drive for like the needs that they have are just so different.
00:49:21 Rachel
Yes.
00:49:21 Alyssa
Yeah.
00:49:22 Rachel
I was talking to my sister, we were walking the other day and I was saying that like after school, one of the things I find most difficult is the competing needs where it feels like it's really hard to meet both of their needs at the same time because they're so different. Hate that feeling.
00:49:41 Alyssa
Yeah, it's been interesting, too, just to get samples of it with Beaners and Sage in that he comes home from school and she's so jazzed to see him and just wants to play and be near him and he wants to hide and be solo. And that is a thing to figure out. I'm really grateful that we have a community here in person where we have four girls that live next door. And so the other day when Sagey came home and he wanted space, I was like, okay, Beaners and I will be right over here in the yard next to ours where she got to engage with the girls and have other kids to fill her cup and socialize. And Sagey went and rode his tractor in our backyard and had kind of alone time downtime.
00:50:30 Rachel
Yeah, there's a lot of that here, too. Nora's social cup is just never full. And Abel's is. What's going on over there?
00:50:43 Alyssa
KMM just asked me a question and it distracted me. I'm gonna turn this screen off. I have two screens.
00:50:52 Rachel
Oh, so you can see Slack.
00:50:55 Alyssa
It was pulled up on the other screen. Because earlier I was in a meeting where I didn't have to do a lot of talking and I did a little not paying attention and did other work during the meeting.
00:51:07 Rachel
Yeah.
00:51:08 Alyssa
And had it all pulled up on the screen.
00:51:10 Rachel
I mean, you gotta take advantage of your time.
00:51:13 Alyssa
I also, during that meeting, because it was like a large group Zoom, I've been walking during a lot of my Zoom meetings and it feels really good. I have a walking pad under my desk. And I was like cruising because I didn't have to talk a whole lot. And then I was like, you know what? I feel like jogging. And so I turned off my camera and really up to this thing and started jogging. And then was like, this is how my pelvic floor is gonna fall out of my body. Like I need to strengthen that bad boy a little more. All of a sudden I was like, and I have to pee. No jogging for me right now.
00:51:51 Rachel
Yeah. I feel like just this year, I feel like my pelvic floor is like finally ready for running and Abel's five. Yeah, I'm pretty sure.
00:52:03 Alyssa
I had gotten there with Sagey when he was like 18 months, like by then, but I did pelvic floor therapy and all that jazz. And it was so helpful. And I was like so good about doing the exercises because I only had one kid and just more capacity. And now it's like, when I remember I'm doing them, but largely not.
00:52:26 Ralphie
Yeah, jogging, maybe just not yet.
00:52:28 Alyssa
Yeah. Oh, no. Yeah. I was like, this was a mistake.
00:52:32 Rachel
Yeah.
00:52:33 Alyssa
Yeah. Who did we get to chat about today?
00:52:36 Rachel
We are talking about Ralphie today.
00:52:40 Alyssa
Ooh, fun.
00:52:42 Rachel
And how to get kids to cooperate without using threats.
00:52:48 Alyssa
Sure. Sure. I think what's so crucial, and I don't remember if we went into this, but that she has created a relationship of safety and security with her kids. She mentioned at one point something about one of her kids really needs to yell and scream and let it out, and another kid, that's just not what they need. But her awareness of that and the fact that she allows that, she's not like, no, you can't yell. She's created this relationship of safety and security as a foundation for then cooperation and collaboration. Does that make sense?
00:53:26 Rachel
Yeah, totally.
00:53:27 Alyssa
And I don't know if we hit on that enough in the episode, to be honest.
00:53:31 Rachel
Yeah, and that is all of the things that we ask of our children and need our children to do happen within the context of the relationship. And so if the relationship is feeling rocky, like if you haven't connected or you haven't had quality time together, whatever it is, it's a much harder and bigger ask than when and we're like, hey, I need you to do this, or I need you to come help me with this. And this is another thing that feels so like, yeah, duh, in adult relationships where I was talking with my friends this morning, actually, about how like, yeah, I'm a lot more willing to meet Cody halfway if I feel like he has met my emotional needs.
00:54:20 Alyssa
Yeah, I'm even thinking of it with friends, of like, if Francesca asks me to do anything, I'm like, yeah, I'm going to find a way to support her and help because she does the same for me. She's poured into my cup. She's there. If she's like, hey, I need to chat, I'm at wit's end with this kid or whatever. I am like, yeah, of course. After a bad time when my kids are down, we'll jump on a call and chat things through. I get a number of those texts from people that are like, can we talk this thing through? And there are a lot, frankly, that I'm just like, I don't have the bandwidth or capacity. Like, can we find a time in another time? Whereas with Francesca, I'm gonna find a time whenever we can because she pours into my cup all the time too.
00:55:10 Rachel
Right, and like, not that it's transactional, but just like that back and forth of interdependence and like, you know what I mean? Like, cause I feel the same with my close friends. I'll drop what I'm doing to help you. Cause you've done that for me and I know you'll do it for me again.
00:55:26 Alyssa
Yeah, we're in a connected, secure, safe relationship.
00:55:31 Rachel
Right.
00:55:31 Alyssa
We have that, and I think that's so huge for collaboration and cooperation with our kids that if all we're doing is saying, I need this from you, or I'm annoyed with you about this, or I'm asking you for this, without the connection piece, we're just not gonna get a lot of buy -in.
00:55:48 Rachel
Yeah, and also, this also ties into capacity, right? Like they don't have if if all of their needs are not met and emotional needs are one of them connection needs are one of them, then yeah, they might not have the capacity just last night. I was unpacking Abel's lunchbox for him and he was watching me and he's like mom I thought you said that me and sissy we're gonna have to take care of our lunchboxes every day. And I was like, yeah I did say that and I have been doing it since the beginning of school because I've just felt like you guys have had a lot going on and and that eventually I would like hand it off to you. And I said, when you are ready, like I think you're starting to feel ready if you're noticing that I'm doing it. And we just like had that conversation, right? But so often we are expecting them to, and it's that mindset of like, well, I do everything around this house for you. Can't you just undo your lunchbox for me, right? But right now, as they're going through this big transition, I'm more focused on our relationship than I am on like the tasks that I need them to complete. And that will shift as their capacity expands, right?
00:57:02 Alyssa
Totally.
00:57:03 Rachel
And like they're getting back into it now. So now my expectations are going to shift a little bit.
00:57:07 Alyssa
Well, and the difference there between like leaning into the relationship versus using a punishment or a threat of like, you're supposed to be emptying your lunchbox. If you don't empty your lunchbox, then X, Y, and Z, you're not going to be able to watch TV, you're not going to be able to where we're then like taking something away as a punishment or a threat versus like, Hey, I've noticed that you've been having a hard time emptying your lunchbox at the end of the day, what's going on? And coming back into relationship with them so that we can, because there are still going to be times throughout the year where they're going to come home and they're going to check it on the counter and your expectation is going to be that they take care of it and they're not going to do it. and being able to then come back into relationship and connect with them is gonna get you so much more buy -in in the end.
00:57:58 Rachel
Yeah. The other thing that comes up for me with this is like timeline expectations for cooperation. Like, I feel so annoyed if I ask them to do something, they don't do it really quickly. Or like the idea that, yeah, they might need to throw their lunchbox on the table for like an hour while they decompress and then take care of it. That can annoy me sometimes. And then I think about our relational back and forth and how often I ask them to wait when I am doing something else.
00:58:28 Alyssa
Yeah, and even just like the, I think often lack of awareness for all of us, like what is my timeline expectation? Just before we started recording here, Zach needed me to sign a document and he popped in with, okay, I need you to sign this, it should be in your email. And I was like, okay, cool. And then I finished my conversation with your sister and was like chatting and then he popped in and was like, oh, the deadline for that was like four minutes ago, so can you actually – and I was like, oh, okay, yep, going, going right now. But like didn't know that, you know. I definitely like if I hand off a task, especially if there isn't confirmation, like if I don't get the like, you understand that this is your task, right? Like it's going to get done. I don't want to micromanage and follow up on things. And so for me, if I know you heard it, you're gonna do it, then I can offload it. But if I don't have that confirmation of like, you heard me, you know that this is your task, we are on the same page about this, then I end up in micromanaging mode where I'm like, why is your lunchbox still on the table? Hey, that's your job, you're supposed to be doing this. Versus like, hey, I noticed your lunchbox on the table, just want to make sure you know that before bedtime it's your job to make sure that that is put away or taken care of or whatever it is.
00:59:46 Rachel
Yeah and it's that communication of like and now they know that like part of the reason it needs to be taken care of is so that I can wash it dry it and repack it for tomorrow so it has to be in the sink by a certain time so that all those things can happen but I think so often we don't communicate that and we're just like I asked you to do it so you need to do it. Instead of being like hey buddy you know what, I, after you go to to bed tonight, I'm gonna repack your lunch so that you have food at school tomorrow. And I have to wash that before I can do it. So I need it in the sink around dinnertime, right? But there's that, and it's an inner narrative from childhood, right? Of like, I said so, so get it done.
01:00:28 Alyssa
100%. Yep, cater to my needs. Right.
01:00:32 Rachel
Disregard your own.
01:00:34 Alyssa
Uh -huh, for me.
01:00:37 Rachel
Right, which is so hard in the moment because sometimes I'm just like, damn, yeah, as a parent right now, my needs don't feel met sometimes. And I feel annoyed that now I'm bending to you, but you are a child. So if I'm feeling burnt out because my needs are not met, what you're feeling must be so magnified.
01:00:58 Alyssa
Yeah. And for me, it's like a pulling back of does it matter is the thing I have to ask myself. I have this expectation in my head of like, here's the timeline in which tasks are going happen and things are going to get done or whatever. And if it doesn't in that timeline, does it matter? Is it just that I wanted control over this or is it that, yeah, I need that lunch in the sink so that I can wash it and have it repacked for tomorrow? Then the timeline matters. But the timeline might not matter that they have it done by four. It might matter that they have it done by six. And so just looking at that.
01:01:34 Alyssa
And not getting caught up in the power dynamic, right? Of like, I told you to do it.
01:01:39 Rachel
Yeah. So
01:01:40 Alyssa
That's so hard.
01:01:42 Rachel
It's super hard. And I am somebody who like, I want to get all of my hard stuff done so that then I can relax. And my children are not always like that. Like sometimes they need to relax and unwind before they can take on more tasks. And so for me, this is where visual aids become really helpful, because then I can just to like, hey, look at your checklist and make sure it's all set before bed. And I don't have to be like repeating the tasks or micromanaging or feeling like I'm nagging. It's just like, hey, you gotta make sure your checklist is done before bed, okay?
01:02:19 Alyssa
One of our Seed Cert coaches on our team who's full -time on our team right now, she's an SLP. And she said something the other day in a coaching call that I was like, oh, I love this. She shared that if there isn't a visual aid, if I just say something to you, like, hey, you need to take care of your lunchbox. If they don't clock that in that moment, if they don't hear it, they don't store it for later, they're spent, some other noise or stimulation's happening. If that isn't registered in that moment and there isn't a visual aid, that's gone. That is not going to carry on. Versus if there's a visual aid that they can then reference back to, and I think about this with like, if I'm cooking dinner and I've got Beans on my body and Sage is asking me seven million questions and potentially whining at my feet because he's hungry and I'm trying to make dinner. And Zach comes in and he's like, hey, next time we're at the store when you're putting the grocery order together, can you make sure we get olive oil? Like we're running low. I'm not gonna remember that in the moment, but if he adds it to the list on the fridge of here's what we need next time we do the grocery order, I can reference back to that list. There's a visual for a reference point for me. And how often we're saying things to kids without a visual for a reference point for them. And we just expect them to remember all this stuff and kind of memorize it.
01:03:41 Rachel
Yeah. I think like what this brings up for me is a lot of the times when I'm like, oh, my kids aren't doing what I ask. Oh, they're not cooperating with me. I feel so annoyed. It's more actually like, wait, the system for this in our household isn't meeting their needs. So like what can, it's like if you didn't have that list on your fridge and then and the next day, Zach goes to make something that requires olive oil. You've already done the grocery order. There's no olive oil. He's going to feel like, okay, she doesn't care when I tell her that we need this.
01:04:11 Alyssa
Never listens.
01:04:11 Rachel
And I've meal planned and I needed that and I told her that, right? But it's like, no, you guys have made a system so that if one of you needs something, there's a place to put it.
01:04:21 Alyssa
Yeah.
01:04:21 Rachel
So you're collaborating, you're working together to make sure that these household tasks are taken care of. And I think sometimes we lose sight of that with kids and we just want them to do what we say when we say it because we're the adults. And sometimes they need a system that gives them the scaffolding they need in order to do that.
01:04:40 Alyssa
Correct. Yeah, I think that's absolutely right. Oh, this is such a good episode and such a rich discussion. I'm excited to hear people's takeaways over on Instagram. Pop on over and share with us @seed.and.sew. What came up for you when you were tuning into this one and what follow -up questions you have.
01:05:01 Alyssa
Thanks for tuning in to Voices of Your Village. Check out the transcript at voicesofyourvillage.com. Did you know that we have a special community over on Instagram hanging out every day with more free content? Come join us at @seed.and.sew S -E -W. Take a screenshot of you tuning in, share it on the ‘Gram and tag @seed.and.sew to let me know your key takeaway. If you're digging this podcast, make sure to subscribe so you don't miss an episode. We love collaborating with you to raise emotionally intelligent humans.
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