Learning How to Be a Mom While Grieving a Huge Loss with Taylor Wolfe
00:00:00 Alyssa
You're listening to Voices of Your Village, and today I get to share one of the funniest humans on the internet with you, Taylor Wolfe. You might know her as The Daily Tay. I had been listening to her book, Birdie and Harlow, on audiobook and was like, oh my gosh, I have to chat with her. So we got to dive into what it looks like to learn how to be a mom while grieving a huge loss. Taylor shares so vulnerably and openly about losing this dog of hers, who she was so connected to and attuned to and attached to, at the same time that she was entering into motherhood. And we got to look at what does it look like to incorporate grief as a part of our life and in all of these different moments and experiences. Taylor brings so much humor to her work all the time and is one of my favorite humans to follow on the internet. So if you're not already following, head on over to The Daily Tay and snag her book, Birdie and Harlow. I a thousand percent recommend the audiobook version because she reads it and that's absolutely worth it. All right, folks, let's dive in.
00:01:24 Alyssa
Hey there, I'm Alyssa Blask Campbell. I'm a mom with a master's degree in early childhood education and co -creator of the Collaborative Emotion Processing Method. I'm here to walk alongside you through the messy, vulnerable parts of being humans raising other humans with deep thoughts and actionable tips. Let's dive in together.
00:01:46 Alyssa
Hello, hello, Taylor. How are you?
00:01:50 Taylor
I am doing pretty good. I'm a little congested, but I know you said you are too. So if we're both like making gross face sounds, we're in it together. I forgot to clear before you recorded.
00:02:03 Alyssa
I feel like even when I have like cleared, it's just like immediately back. I'm in one of those where it's like a faucet. So just rolling with it. Just a lot of rolling with it right now.
00:02:15 Taylor
I've been congested, I guess, for like three years, so. But I just say that to act like, oh, I'm just not normally this sick, but yeah, I am. This is normal.
00:02:25 Alyssa
Wait, how old is Birdie now?
00:02:28 Taylor
Birdie will be three in nine days. We've got a countdown.
00:02:32 Alyssa
Oh, no way. Like a paper chain countdown, I hope?
00:02:36 Taylor
Yeah, basically.
00:02:37 Alyssa
Oh my god, yes.
00:02:38 Taylor
For real, yeah.
00:02:43 Alyssa
I'm 0 % crafty. So paper chain countdowns about all I got in me too. So I, full disclosure, would say like, am a dog person in that like grew up with dogs, if I had to choose dog over cat, like choosing dogs. But originally, when I saw your book, I was like, okay, like, cool dogs. And then I started listening to the audio book. And I was like, Oh my god, I love this. I followed you on Instagram stuff so I've like seen your dog journey for a while, but I love the like tie -ins to motherhood throughout.
00:03:22 Taylor
Thank you. I mean, Har was, and Har's like what led me to motherhood because there were so many times with Har where like, I think a huge part of motherhood is secondhand joy, obviously watching your kids be happy and have fun. But before that, I mean, we would do everything with Har, like take him camping, he was in swim lessons, like all this weird stuff because it brought me so much joy. And he had the best smile. And that was where my husband and I were like, wait a second, we hear people get this joy from kids. Could that be true? Like, so it was definitely like, this is great. Wonder if it's true people like their kids as much as dogs. And I know people like some people get mad when I say that my mom does, for example, just like don't compare. But I'm like, don't compare my joy, mom. Like we are all allowed our own joys, but that's just a little side tangent. So anyway, keep going.
00:04:13 Alyssa
No, no, no. I dig it. Cause also one of my pet peeves is when people actually do act like raising dogs the same as raising a kid, because you like don't have to raise a functional member of society. Right? Like there's-
00:04:26 Taylor
Well, Harlow would disagree. He was not a functional member. He'd throw tantrums. He, but I get what you're saying. So keep going with that because I probably, this is a good learning moment for me.
00:04:41 Alyssa
You know, the idea of like, we're going to build tools for them to like survive without us out into the wild and go and be like independent humans. And so that's one of my pet peeves is when people are like, yeah, it's just like parenting a kid. And I'm like, no, nope. Nope. But I loved your connections throughout the book. And when you, for folks who are just coming into this, can you actually share a little bit about like what your book's premise is and like who it's for?
00:05:13 Taylor
Of course. And I'd also like to say Harlow would have never survived in the wild, probably not even a day because he was like the most, like he always needed a blanket when he was like remotely chilly. Like if there was a chill in the air, he'd be like, I need a blankie. But anyway, so the book--
00:05:32 Alyssa
Honestly same.
00:05:32 Taylor
Yeah, I mean, I get it. So it's about, I'm just going to say the little tagline, 'Life, loss and loving my dog so much I didn't want kids-- until I did'. Because for like a better part of my 20s, I was very uncertain about wanting kids. It's just such a huge decision. And I believed what I think is kind of a myth, at least for me, that like everybody gets baby fever. I was like just waiting to one day wake up and know and I feel like a lot of my friends it wasn't a myth for them. They did have baby fever like early on, probably because I'm from Nebraska so you start like producing--
00:06:14 Alyssa
Yes at 22 yeah.
00:06:16 Taylor
Yeah yeah I'm generalizing but a lot of them started a lot earlier than me. So I kept being like when am I gonna know for sure, and then I'd be around children and was like, yeah, that might not be for me. And that is totally okay. I make that very clear in my book, you know, some people, you know, maybe they don't need kids and that's fine. We have a lot of people on this earth. We do not need everybody to want kids.
00:06:44 Alyssa
Also just like as a note, like if you don't want kids, I actually don't want you to have them.
00:06:50 Taylor
No, not at all. Like when I see people pressuring people. I'm like, why do you care? Let people live their lives. I was on-- do follow Sharon Says So?
00:07:00 Alyssa
Yeah.
00:07:02 Taylor
Okay, I'm a huge Sharon fan. I was on her podcast. And she's told me I'm gonna I don't want to mess up the stat- but I think she said like women in their late 30s who choose not to have children are like the happiest demographic or something where I was like,
00:07:15 Alyssa
It's not shocking
00:07:15 Taylor
Good for them. Yeah, not shocking. Not shocking. So anyway, a big part of my 20s was like, that's probably going to be me and that's fine. And Har was like, yeah, that's fine. We're all super happy here. But then, um, I mentioned that secondhand joy where we kind of started to wonder, like, could we love a kid in the fierce, deep way we love our dog. And then there's a certain part in the book where I say we got like a glimpse into the softer side of parenthood. I feel like a lot of people who do not have kids often only see kids in not their home situation where children are kind of very unpredictable. So what I'm saying is I saw toddlers at their worst.
00:07:56 Alyssa
Yeah. Totally.
00:07:57 Taylor
I was like, I don't want a part of that. I do not. But then we saw like a random, like we were at Mama's Fish House in Hawaii, probably a little tipsy, which I think contributed to it. But we saw like a glimpse into this like doting mom and dad with their little toddler and they just looked like so happy and idyllic. And we were like, Chris and I were both just staring at him. And we didn't know each other was until like we caught it and then we're like, were you just watching that family? And we're like, no, no, we sound super creepy. But anyway, it was just like a good, I feel like people sometimes get that moment where you see like a peek behind the scenes of this, like the sweet side of parenting. And so then we're like, maybe we could try for kids. So it was a lot of things that led up to it. And so finally, I think sometime in my thirties where I was like, okay, let's go ahead and try. And still we, it was never like a for sure knowing for us until a moment. I mean, this is not like a heartwarming story necessarily, but when I miscarried my first pregnancy, that's when I knew. Cause I was pretty uncertain with it, but like still excited. And then when I miscarried, I was like, oh shit, I did really want that, you know, to be a mom. So that's when I knew. And then I was like, we've got to get, let's start trying, you know, want to try right away, but I had a partial molar miscarriage, which is this thing where you have to wait at least six months because they don't know if your HCG spikes because you're pregnant again, or you're growing a cancerous tumor. It's crazy. So then we had to wait, and the waiting was just excruciating. I feel like anybody who wants a baby, but they have to wait for whatever reason, it makes the time even worse.
00:09:40 Alyssa
Sucks.
00:09:41 Taylor
So that's a part of my book. And then we get into motherhood and how, like I said, Har led me to it. And then as I'm becoming--
00:09:53 Alyssa
Harlow your dog.
00:09:56 Taylor
Harlow my dog. Yeah. Right after Birdie is born we find out that Harlow has an aggressive form of cancer and so it's like I'm learning to become a mom and also saying goodbye to my best friend. And he died within six months of her being born. And so then it's like the shattering grief of losing my very best boy. So there we go. That's it in a nutshell.
00:10:24 Alyssa
Because postpartum hormones aren't enough. Let's tack on grief.
00:10:29 Taylor
Let's, yeah. Let's tell me my dog has a month to live. And then it was six more. So like, I'm thankful we got six as opposed to one, but I would have preferred like 10 more years.
00:10:40 Alyssa
Sure.
00:10:40 Taylor
But you can't get that. You can't always get what you want. So.
00:10:43 Alyssa
What do you feel like from having parented Harlow really like came in hot as a parent of a child?
00:10:53 Taylor
Um, you know, I haven't been asked that question. Harlow definitely taught me more patience and he taught me to be a lot more selfless because he was a Vizla and Vizlas are very high energy and so suddenly like my day became revolved around we've got to make sure Har is happy. Get his energy like burnt or he's gonna be a maniac. And now I'm thinking like what you said about I didn't have to raise Harlow to be a functioning adult and I didn't. He was just like such a good friend. We had so much fun together. But what I do think about is I would like grump about Har never learned to put his toys away. And I'd be like, God, there's toys all over the house. And now I have life with a toddler and I'm like, Oh, Har was like--
00:11:41 Alyssa
This was nothing.
00:11:42 Taylor
Not supposed to pick up after like, six dog toys. I look at our morning scene after 30 minutes, every single day, and I'm like, I can't get over mornings with toddlers because there's somehow like 18 piles of toys, like random clothes, there's food, there's crumbs, there's sippy cups everywhere. I'm like, this was from 30 minutes. And to think about what I thought it was a mess before kids, when I'd be like, there's a dog toy and a coffee cup out, who did this? And now it's like, the house is destroyed like 10 times a day, every day.
00:12:15 Alyssa
This is one of my pet peeves when people are like, I'm so tired or I don't have time and they don't have kids. I'm like, I wanna have compassion for this right now, for your situation. And I don't. And I don't because you don't know tired. And you have so much time. Like there's-- pre -kids Alyssa had so much time and she just didn't know. She didn't know how much time she had.
00:12:39 Taylor
No, I was always pretty like conscious of that simply because my sister had three small kids and she would tell me like, you need to enjoy this alone time. And I'd be like, oh, I do, I do. Like I was very aware. And so that was like a reason too why I was so like hesitant on children. Because I was like, I don't know if I'm ready to give up this alone time.
00:13:01 Alyssa
Totally
00:13:02 Taylor
I don't know if I'm ready to pick up more than a coffee cup. And I don't think I would ever be ready if I waited and waited but it kind of was just like, I think the pros will outweigh the cons. And I took a guess or a leap of faith and they have. They definitely have obviously we had another child. You just learn to like, I'm not going to say like I embrace it because I still pick up every day. And I know some people are like, I just let it go. And I wish I could do that. I honestly do. But like working from home, I get very anxious with clutter everywhere.
00:13:36 Alyssa
Sure
00:13:37 Taylor
So I just like, it's like, it's one of my toxic traits, I suppose. I have to have a clean space or I'm like, I'm just a grump. So -
00:13:46 Alyssa
It's really hard with your kids at home.
00:13:49 Taylor
Yeah, it is. Weekends, Birdie goes to daycare, which helps us, um, have a little bit of like focus for a bit, but weekends, you know, we just, it's going to be a mess and that's fine. Cause it's like all these things. I feel like parenting is so hard because it's like, I want to have a happy fun home, but I also need a little bit clean, you know, but I want like, you know, all these things we're supposed to want and do, but like, I need to also have sanity- ugh its so hard!
00:14:14 Alyssa
Right, in order to actually have a good time.
00:14:17 Taylor
Everything's hard. Totally.
00:14:18 Alyssa
Yeah, totally. We were actually like right before bed last night sitting in Sage's playroom. And he we like, gave him like a five minute warning before we're going up to get ready for bed. And he took that five minutes to literally dump out six baskets of toys, just dumping. I'm like, we're not even going anywhere with this. And Zach and I just like looked at each other. And we're like, okay, yeah. Five minutes time. And like, now that sucks. That's just annoying. Who is your book for?
00:14:53 Taylor
So, I think, you know, there's the obvious things people think of, like, if you have loved a pet, whether it's, you know, a dog or a cat or whatever kind of pet you have, a big part that I want, like, to touch on is not fitting within, like, the labels or boundaries of who you're allowed to love. you know, like, when Har died, I had, like, some interesting judgment from people for how long, like, I grieved him. Like, oh, it's just a dog. And I was like, that, that phrase means nothing to me. Because this just a dog, this, like, important part of my life was with me for 10 years, more so than just a human. Like, I worked from home for so long. It was me and Har all the time. So when he was gone, I was missing something so huge. So I, I touch on that quite a bit of that, like immense grief of when something leaves us that maybe isn't like socially acceptable that we're allowed to grieve, but it's like, you can grieve whatever you want. Like I loved him so much. He was with me. So I'm missing him. So there's that part. That's kind of, that's a sad part, but it's not all sad. Like a big part of the book is just him and I having fun together. And then there's, you know, the book for mothers, like, um, motherhood and the journey to get there and how confusing it is. I did not expect to constantly be confused and constantly like-- I don't understand how time with a two -year -old can be so sometimes frustrating and exhausting and then at the end of the day I will look at photos from a week ago and miss that.
00:16:35 Alyssa
Yeah.
00:16:35 Taylor
I'm Like that doesn't make sense and motherhood doesn't make sense. So a big part of the book is like I feel like just wanting like other moms to read it and be like, yes, you're right. It doesn't make sense, but we love it
00:16:52 Alyssa
And we're exhausted.
00:16:55 Taylor
We're exhausted because it's such a mental and emotional toll. But even like as I was talking to you about Goldie's pregnancy and that was so hard, but then I just right before coming on here, saw like an influencer share their reel about being six months pregnant. And I was like, Oh, that looks fun. So you just forget it's confusing. So anyway, there's that part of motherhood. And then, um, for anyone who's on the fence and they don't know if they want kids, I'm not going to convince you to have kids, but I'm just going to talk about, you know, how we didn't know and how we eventually decided to and how that's worked out pretty good.
00:17:32 Alyssa
Pretty good
00:17:32 Taylor
Um, and then I've also had, yeah, pretty good, career. Um, and then I've had people who are like, I don't have pets and I don't have kids, but I love like reading about your book and you know, your journey in your twenties and how I decided I didn't want to do corporate jobs for my entire life. Because that's just not my personality. Some people are great at that structure and I wasn't. And I knew immediately that post -college, like working in cubicles, selling like HVAC jobs, whatever that is.
00:18:08 Alyssa
Weren't gonna fire you up?
00:18:10 Taylor
Yeah, I was like, I can't do this for 60 years. And it's not like I want to just have a free ride. I'm not expecting that. But life is way too short to just like, accept being miserable. So I throw in a little bit of that like drive that I've always had to figure something out on my own. Because I felt like a caged animal in that cubicle. And that was like also hard, like having to lock Harlow in a crate while I went to work. I was like, that's not a life for a dog. And why am I locking my dog in a crate so I can go to my crate at work? Like I was not put on this earth to do that. So there's like that in the book too. If you are stuck in a miserable job and wanting a way out, come manifest with me. There's not like self -help talk in it, but I do mention how I am a believer in self -help and writing down your goals and things like that was a huge part of my 20s and it's a huge part of my life still. I write down things that I want every single day. I just think it helps keep you focused.
00:19:15 Alyssa
Well, I think with two things, one with that, the trust, I guess, or faith in yourself, the self -confidence to say, I'm gonna figure this out, whether it's with leaving the job or even just getting a dog in the first place, which you'll come to find out as you read the book, was a little bit of a on a whim kind of thing where it wasn't like, yep, I like I'm all set for this. But you talked your way into it and then got a dog. And but that like self confidence to be like, I can figure this out. And then I think like bringing that into parenthood, because I think so much of parenthood is just like, yeah, figuring it out as I go. And I remember actually like early in the newborn days, at one point I had like nursed Sage, passed him to Zach, Sage never once took a bottle despite every bottle and temperature and formula, breast milk, whatever being offered to him, it sucked. And so he exclusively nursed, which had not been my goal or plan. And I had like nursed him and I passed him off to Zach. And I was like, I'm going to go hop in the shower. And they come out like in the room. I'm like, oh, my gosh, like how nice. Just like have a minute to myself. And Zach was in Sage's room, like trying to put him down. And all of a sudden, Zach comes in and he's like sweaty and Sage is crying. And he's like, I just don't know what he needs, but I wanted to give you a minute. And like he keeps crying. Like, I don't know. And I was like, OK. And so I took Sage and just tried a few different things. Also didn't know, but was like, oh, try all the, how's the diaper. Does he need to eat again? And then he calmed and Zach was like, I just like, I don't know. How did you know what to try? And I was like, yeah, I just didn't. I think so much of parenthood as being like, I don't know. We're going to try this and see if that works. And if it doesn't, that wasn't what they needed. Cool. Just then fast forward to like two and a half year old Sage this morning who like requests as a side of his breakfast to have two goldfish, two mini marshmallows and two chocolate chips. So very two and a half year old request.
00:21:36 Taylor
That's a s'more right there.
00:21:38 Alyssa
That's right.
00:21:38 Taylor
A toddler s'more.
00:21:39 Alyssa
And Zach's like, sure, and like puts them on the table and then Sage drops to the ground in a full meltdown and he's crying and he runs upstairs and like gets his Slothy and the whole shebang. And we're like, we don't know what just happened. Like he requested it, he got it, boom, meltdown. And eventually he like settles and he was like, I want it in a bowl. We're like, all right, cool, can do. But I think so much of it is like, yeah, I don't, you're not going to always have the answer necessarily, but that like self -confidence and like trust of like, it's okay to not have the answer and we can figure it out. And we're going to try this thing and see if it works. And sometimes it's leaving the cubicle, you know? Like I, I, I super dig that about you. And I'm curious, like where that was fostered.
00:22:32 Taylor
I think it was fostered in the fact like I am a huge dreamer and idealist. I read a motivational quote and it lives in my head forever. Like there was-- I would like when I get ready for these jobs that I hated, I remember like one time I read a Steve Jobs quote where it was like if today was the last day of your life, would you want to do what you're about to do? And most people read that and they're like, okay, like he was an iPhone guy maybe they move on. But that quote lived in me. And anytime I'd get ready, I would look in the mirror and I'd be like, you want to do this? Is this how you're going to go out? I'd be like, no. And so incredibly, like I've said, miserable, but like, I've always had this like urgency that life is super short. And it also makes me very anxious walking around every day being like, is today the end? But it does make me live with a sense of urgency where I just could not imagine doing something I hated every day. And so, but when something's not a good fit for me, I also know immediately. So there have been many a jobs where I leave after a day, I have, like, I've left at lunchtime, I've just put my stuff in a drawer walked out backward. Because once I decide I'm like, nope, not gonna do it. So I don't know where that comes from honestly, um, like the 96 Olympic gymnasts, maybe?
00:23:59 Alyssa
That's sick. Yeah.
00:24:01 Taylor
That like 'I can do anything' except be an Olympic gymnast. Cause I did want to do that. But, um, you know, I've just been a big dreamer as long as I can remember.
00:24:12 Alyssa
I feel like for me as an entrepreneur and like my master's is education, like left the classroom. I was like, I can do this thing. When I look back, I'm like, oh, my dad specifically, like, when I would like, come and ask a question, like, I wanted to study abroad in high school. And I grew up in a family didn't have money. And so like, they were like, totally, you can absolutely do that. We just have to figure out how to how you're going to fundraise for it. Right. But like, there was always this, like, yes, AND, you can figure it out was like, what I feel like they, especially my dad, when I look back, like really brought to the table that then led to, I feel like it's sometimes stupidly, like sometimes maybe I get into spaces where I'm like, you can't do this, what are you doing? You have no business here. But largely I'm like down to take a risk and figure it out, knowing like what's the worst that happens.
00:25:13 Taylor
Yeah, I've always been more scared of like, not trying than failing.
00:25:18 Alyssa
Same.
00:25:19 Taylor
Like that to me. And I've just like I've gotten pretty okay at the embarrassed hot feeling that comes with--
00:25:25 Alyssa
Yeah, totally.
00:25:26 Taylor
You know and I just like I remember like this passes. Like I know you feel super embarrassed and you feel like a six -year -old like so the hot embarrassed feeling sucks, but it goes away.
00:25:36 Alyssa
Yeah
00:25:36 Taylor
And then i'm also like who cares? Like I care a shit ton. Don't get me wrong, but I get like I'm good at like fake pepping myself up. I mean like whatever. Like whatever. Like you're embarrassed right now it's gonna go away. You failed. Cause like I have started a lot of things that are they didn't pan out like I mentioned one in the book my Blankron, which was a blanket apron. It was like a fleece piece of fleece with velcro on it and that did not go well. Nobody wants to cook and sit on the couch in the same food crusty Blankron, but I was like always trying to invent like crappy things, because I'm not like, I'm crafty, and I'm creative, but I'm not like, I'm not going to be inventing like a computer. I know my brain. So Blankron was as much as I could come up with. But there's been like a lot of things like I've started different websites that fail. Things that make me embarrassed, but I've always thought like, I'd rather try and fail and be embarrassed for that reason than look back in 30 years and be like, I think that'd be a much deeper sense of embarrassment, if you will. If you're like, I didn't try. That just keeps me up at night.
00:26:52 Alyssa
Same for me. And I also fall into the camp of what's my day -to -day life I want to live now, right? And so that, for me, meant taking risks and stepping outside of it. What does that look like for you now with parenting Birdie, and then as Goldie grows, do you take any of that into like, oh, this, like, what are those, how do those values fit in there in terms of how you want to parent them? The ability to fail. So the idea of like, yeah, we're in it for the process part of this and not just like this end product. We have this like goal of what we want for you or who we want you to be or whatever.
00:27:33 Taylor
No, I, I mean, like, if you asked me like what I want her to be, yeah, I just want her to be like kind and inclusive and open -minded and like, I do think, of course I want her to be successful, but whatever that means to her, you know, I think it's such like a broad term, but maybe if you ask my husband, cause he's more of like the focus regimented where we sometimes have different ideas where they're, where I'm like, I just want her to be like super happy, but also I want her to be a dreamer. Like, I love that. Like for her to know she can do anything but also like what can you do that like helps people maybe like because you know you don't want to be like
00:28:14 Alyssa
Like a, like a Blapron, uh uh blanket--
00:28:19 Taylor
Blankron. A blanket apron. You know in my defense I was just like how can I pay rent and it wasn't with a Blankron. But anyway, um,
00:28:31 Alyssa
Spoiler alert
00:28:31 Taylor
And maybe she's too young to be like, totally focused on what we hope she becomes. I don't know. I just hope she becomes happy. I don't know. That's a weird thing to think. And I'm not saying I don't think about it, but maybe it's also because we're not sleeping where I'm like too fuzzy to answer that. I don't know.
00:28:51 Alyssa
No. Yeah, for sure.
00:28:52 Taylor
I hope she becomes a good sleeper. Man. She'll sleep in her own damn bed.
00:28:57 Alyssa
I think like looking at those parts where I'm like, I think about this in parenthood where I'm like, what are the parts of me that I think have helped me in life both like feel joy or just like have the confidence to go after things that I want to do or whatever. And then how do I continue to foster those, you know, like what I was saying, like looking back at like ways that my dad fostered it and I think about that, like, how do I lay those foundations. But one of the things you noted about grief, you're talking about the grieving part of the book, I found this a lot with miscarriage because I had two early miscarriages before Sage. And I think like A. people's discomfort just with hard emotions anyway, that they're like, want to make it go away, right? They want to find the silver lining, which is the most annoying thing to receive in the moment. I think like when we're looking at the grief part, I wonder, for folks that were like trying to rush you through, or like, why, you know, it's just a dog, blah, blah, blah. I'm curious for folks as they're diving into the book, like what they might identify with, I read that part and I was just like, as I was reading about Harlow, and I told you like, I have this pet peeve of like, they're not kids. And also, it doesn't change my experience of my life if you're still grieving, right? Like, what I'm curious about other adults and our desire to be like, oh, it's just a dog, like, what they're getting out of it. Do you know what I mean?
00:30:47 Taylor
Yeah, but I don't know how to answer that because people are just sometimes so stupid. You know, like I ask myself this all the time, like, what do you care?
00:30:56 Alyssa
That's what I'm saying.
00:30:57 Taylor
My grief doesn't affect you and there's enough grief to go around.
00:31:00 Alyssa
There's enough grief to go around.
00:31:02 Taylor
Like, look at our world today, okay? We are not hoarding grief.
00:31:07 Alyssa
But that's what I'm saying is like, I don't understand the desire to even say a thing, right? Like in so many instances where I'm like, Oh, you needed to say that out loud? Like when I was going to my nine week ultrasound and somebody was like, do you feel like you're already showing? And I was like, huh? Do you feel like I'm already showing, right? Like the desire to like, say the thing. And that's what came up for me around like grief when I was sitting with it and thinking about like, what did it matter to people how far along I was when I miscarried, or whether it's a dog or whatever. Like when you're grieving, it's not, I guess the idea of like, what are they trying to get at, that you shouldn't be? Because they would like it to stop because it's uncomfortable for them?
00:31:59 Taylor
I mean, I think it's always much more of a reflection of what's going on within them rather than me. You know, like for any type of comment, I think that is layered with, I don't know if it's like condescending, or annoyance? Like if I have a feeling that comes up about somebody I don't know and it irritates me I always say like why why are you irritated with them? Because this is clearly something going on with you. You know what we don't like in others more times than not we do not like about ourself, like I think that's very true. There's not many times it isn't true at least for me when people really get under my skin. I'm like, okay, so you don't like what about yourself?
00:32:43 Alyssa
Right
00:32:44 Taylor
So when it comes to the grief thing, I'm like, well, they're probably and I'm not making excuses. Because like I said, people are just stupid and rude sometimes. But that's, you know, they're mad at my grieving. And it has more to do with their grieving something that I don't know. Who knows, you know, we all carry our own shit. And I don't think that's an excuse to say rude things. But that's what I try to remember is like, okay, so that's a reflection of them. Or like the stupid things people say when you miscarry, like I can go back to exactly where we were sitting and this girl, it was like a week or two after I'd miscarried. It doesn't matter the amount of time, like whatever, it's, you know, fresh to anyone whenever it happens. And she's like, Oh, that's why like, you know, you don't usually tell people so soon. And I was like, Oh, does that prevent miscarriage? Because I didn't know that. I don't know what was going on within her to say that, but I I'm a, I'm a team of, you tell people whenever you want about your pregnancy, if you're comfortable at a week, you tell them. If you want to wait until 25 weeks? Normalize whatever you want. But I also grew up in a time of hearing chatter of, wow, I can't believe they're telling people so early. And that's what I grew up hearing. And so I was like, Oh, maybe, you know, you're supposed to follow a timeline. And even like doctors. Typically, you announce around this time, but I'm like, why don't we change that narrative? And let people
00:34:09 Alyssa
Tell whoever you want, whatever you want. Yeah.
00:34:12 Taylor
It's crazy to me that I'll still like buy into that. It's like, what the hell? I don't know.
00:34:19 Alyssa
Great. I with my second miscarriage, I was on day like four after a D&C and like still, very like bleeding through my pants, like very much, and a younger gal asked if we had considered adoption. And I was like oh… uh… how do I like Nick-from-New-Girl like moonwalk out of this conversation I don't want to be in right now. Like what?
00:34:48 Taylor
Yeah
00:34:49 Alyssa
Um I literally just I said the only thing I could access in that moment, I said oh um no not yet.. uh but I don't think I want to talk about it. Like it just stumbled out…. I was like what? What?
00:35:07 Taylor
Yeah. I don't know I think I said so much stupid shit in my 20s too but I always knew not to like go there. I don't know.
00:35:16 Alyssa
I hope I did. I hope I knew that.
00:35:19 Taylor
I hope these guys haven't like learned— I don't know what people say. Like why would they say anything.
00:35:25 Alyssa
What was the process um for you postpartum, knowing that you were like losing Harlow at the same time of like parenting Birdie and like what yeah I guess like holding both of those things?
00:35:41 Taylor
That was like a bad time.
00:35:44 Alyssa
Yeah, sure.
00:35:45 Taylor
Because like we were also having feeding issues with Birdie and so there was like a week in there where we were going to hospital visits for Har, and we were going to children's hospital for Birdie. I honestly don't remember it too clearly other than like what I've written in the book because I, for someone who I'd scrapbook everything with being a mom, cause I'm trying to hold on to time and like take photos. I do all the weird stuff. There's a certain amount of time right away, postpartum with Birdie where I didn't take any photos because I specifically remember thinking in my head, I don't want to remember this time because it was also like I was in the depths of like recording every bit of like breastfeeding to the second, you know, how much did she take in, which breasts?
00:36:34 Alyssa
So exhausting.
00:36:34 Taylor
Like what, how, you know, when you're in the after that, because the doctor told me to, because we had to figure out why she wasn't gaining. And then we figured out, we don't ever know why she wasn't gaining from breastfeeding, because I had like an enormous supply just didn't work out. So we switched to bottles and formula, and it changed rather quickly for us. But it was like, I'm trying to be a mom and get my body back to health. And Harlow is also like, he's getting like, I can't think of what call when they drill into that, like his tumor to see what's going on. And I just remember feeling constantly like gutted.
00:37:13 Alyssa
Yeah.
00:37:13 Taylor
Like the feeling when you don't want to eat or drink or I really just wanted to sleep. That's like my anxious getaway when I can't handle things. I'm like, I just need to sleep. But I was like, but you can't sleep because you have to breastfeed every 75 minutes.
00:37:27 Alyssa
Yup.
00:37:27 Taylor
So that was just, that was really hard. And just feeling torn because it was like Har's first time not being an only child and, and then I just, what was a reality check was when we went to children's hospital and we got to leave after our appointment because the doctor came in and he's like, we can't see anything wrong, wrong on her scans. You know? So just switch, if you've been switching to bottles, like she's starting to gain and it was like a very positive meeting. And then I remember us walking out and I saw a family walking deeper into the hospital with like suitcases. And I was like, we get to leave and other families don't. So you know, I'm not like lessening our pain that we were in, but sometimes just like the reality check of like, this is hard, but we're going to get through it, you know, and just seeing those other families go deeper into that hospital while we were leaving.
00:38:29 Alyssa
Yeah. Perspective.
00:38:30 Taylor
Yeah. Perspective. Exactly. That's, that's when I was like, I don't know what's going to happen with Har, but we're going to go home and just kind of taking things like day by day. And I like to panic and overreact like super fast. That's my go to. And so I was like, let's, let's maybe not panic. Let's research. Let's figure out what we can do. So we got hard on like a cancer -fighting diet because we couldn't take the tumor out because it was like on his head. Like we'd have to remove half of his face. It just, we couldn't do it. So it was more like, let's figure out what we can do with what we have. And so we think the diet like helped buy us a lot more time and like figuring out how to bulk up Birdie with like formula and breast milk. And then things slowly but surely got better. And then here we are. We have two new dogs and another baby.
00:39:19 Alyssa
Yeah, what shifted for you coming from like one to two, given your experience with Birdie entering into parenthood? Was there anything that you came in to then Goldie being like, oh, this, I'm I feel so differently about this. I'm good. Like this baby. I'm like, there are two things going in that I care about, like, going into Sage, I cared about so many things going into this one, I'm like, I'm gonna protect my butthole at all costs. And
00:39:47 Taylor
Okay. Good. That sounds like a good life rule.
00:39:47 Alyssa
We're going to work on bottles as soon as we can, right? Like I needed that outlet that I didn't have. And so I'm curious, like going from Birdie into Goldie, was there anything that shifted for you?
00:40:06 Taylor
Yes. One was, I'm going to protect my own mental health and I'm going to own my shit. And in that terms, I mean, like, um, with Birdie, like her pediatrician was like, they encouraged us to continue to try to breastfeed when she wasn't gaining and breastfeeding really, honestly, wasn't that important to me. And I said, like, I don't care. Like, and I'm not like, I know it is very important for a lot of women. I just didn't fall into that category. And looking back, I was like, why on earth did we wait a few more days with a hungry baby? We should have gone to bottles immediately. So now I'm like, hell no, I am the mom. I am owning my shit for my baby. And also for me, I have intrusive thoughts with postpartum, where I didn't even know about those. I thought mentioning I had postpartum depression, I was worried a doctor would think like, oh, you want to harm your child? Where it was like, no, it was the opposite. I worried anything could harm my child. Like,
00:41:09 Alyssa
Yeah
00:41:09 Taylor
I thought-- I didn't want any relatives would hold her. Not that they would drop her on purpose, but like, I had an extreme fear of her being dropped. I thought that was normal. And it's, it's really not that normal to, I mean, unfortunately, like a lot of women have those thoughts, but you don't have to. And so like, I talked to my doctor before giving birth about them. And then like, I got on, I don't remember, I think it was some form of Xanax right away, because it was faster acting than the other pills that I could have been on, but that I was like hyper aware of. And I'm like, I don't want to go through that. I don't want to be scared of garage doors. I was scared our garage door would fall on our baby, like crazy things. I couldn't walk by our stairs with Birdie because I thought I would slip and throw her over. Like it's postpartum intrusive thoughts are wild. And then I had like a doctor just doing rounds and he tried to talk to about. He's like, well, you know, instead of pills, you can try walks. And in my head, I go, own your shit. And I'm like, that's great. I'm going to do walks. And I will take these pills. Like,
00:42:10 Alyssa
I will be able to do the walks with more peace, because I'm taking the pills.
00:42:15 Taylor
Yeah, I had like my shield up. And I remember being like, don't come at me. Like you, I just was much, just I'd say stronger. Like --
00:42:25 Alyssa
Yeah
00:42:26 Taylor
--Don't tell me that. And I think walks are great. But I knew I needed walks and Xanax because I don't want-- like we had like a family vacation planned and I worried about relatives holding her for like six weeks leading up to that. Like every night I would imagine how she could be dropped and it kept me up and I thought wow being a mom is hard that this is how I live now and I'm like you don't have to.
00:42:51 Alyssa
Being a mom is hard, and this isn't how you have to live now.
00:42:54 Taylor
Exactly. Like, it doesn't have to be that extreme, but I had never heard anybody else talk about it, or maybe I wasn't paying attention, because now that I pay attention, I have seen a lot more people talk about intrusive thoughts.
00:43:07 Alyssa
Yeah.
00:43:07 Taylor
And it like, for some reason, it feels a lot better to name them. And now, like, I still got them with Goldie, but I'd literally be like, okay, hi thought, like, great, go away. Like, I just like, talk back to myself, which is another layer of crazy, but whatever. It worked for me to just be like condescending back to myself. You know what? She's not going to fall in a black hole because there's not one right here. We'll worry about this when we go to space. That's how I armed myself second time around.
00:43:35 Alyssa
I love it. I love--
00:43:36 Taylor
And protect my butthole. I'm always protecting my butthole.
00:43:41 Alyssa
It's a strong choice. You know, my butthole didn't even tear in birth. So cheers to that. It was a postpartum experience. It was once I stopped taking stool softeners where I was like, Oh, I'm doing great.
00:43:56 Taylor
It was like wanna bet?
00:44:04 Alyssa
It was too soon. I, for myself, postpartum with Sage was so scared of missing a moment.
00:44:14 Taylor
Oh, yeah, that's a hard one.
00:44:16 Alyssa
It's such a hard one- that it has gotten easier for me. But like, that's my hardest parenting thing where I like, you know, we're looking, we're so ready for them to go to bed. And then we look at them a week ago and I'm like, Oh my God. And for me, I like look back and I'm like, yearning for that. And then immediately go to like, also, you're going to yearn for this. And you just couldn't see it at that time, and you did, did you soak up every moment? Like that, and I'm just like, Oh God, like that is exhausting. But I think my like hardest parenting thing.
00:44:51 Taylor
I started writing letters to myself in a journal that I bought that was supposed to be letters to my daughter, but I turned it into letters to me. I'm like, you are a narcissist, but okay. The letters are all like, Hey, just a reminder. You're enjoying this. You're soaking it in. Hey, just a reminder. You held her. Like I'm just writing all these crazy reminders. Cause I was like, present me already knows future me is going to be crazy. So let's just let her know in this letters to my daughter. Let's hope she never reads this journal because she'll be like, Hey mom, what'd you write to me?
00:45:26 Alyssa
Nothing.
00:45:27 Taylor
Nothing. You got a scrapbook. Yeah. I don't know how I’ll get out of that one.
00:45:33 Alyssa
Oh, that's funny. What has been the coolest part about like people having your book in their hands and like hearing their takeaways and thoughts and feedback and ways it's influenced them?
00:45:45 Taylor
Oh, it's just been like, I've been waiting, it feels like forever for it to come out. So whenever someone tells me they've read it, and they're like, I related to this so much, or you, this reminds me of my dog, or, you know, I've signed a lot of books to dogs, which I absolutely love. Like at my readings, I only read like the funny parts, but yet somehow we all end up crying by the end because people will raise their hand and they'll like, how did you get through your grief? Like, I just lost my dog. Like there was this really sweet lady and she lost her dog Butters. And a room like it's full of like really lovely women crying about our dogs is-- it doesn't sound that exciting, but it's actually just like so sweet and cathartic to meet these people who relate to my book because that's what always like wanted with this. Like I hope this book makes people feel seen and I feel like that's so trite to say, but I really like genuinely mean it in so many of the different like things that I discuss. Like if someone reads this and they're like yeah me too I felt like this with motherhood or my dog or-- that's what I love. Like it makes this job of I don't always love the term influencer, and that's what I'm a writer, but you know like working behind your phone all day and doing what we do is very odd sometimes and writing makes it feel more real to me and more important. Don't get me wrong. I love doing my silly reels and videos like that brings me joy.
00:47:20 Alyssa
They bring the rest of us joy too.
00:47:22 Taylor
Thank you. Writing feels a lot more real and lasting to me. And I just think of like, if I can make someone feel less alone or less weird with what they're going through. That's been the best part for me.
00:47:37 Alyssa
Yeah. That's it. It is achieving that. And yeah, I think you weaved in so many different things as you do with humor and it has, but I have loved the, I'm an audiobook human as a parent where I'm just like, how do, I don't know how parents read physical books.
00:48:00 Taylor
Yeah.
00:48:01 Alyssa
So that's thing, but I have loved listening to it and I'm stoked for folks to go snag it and dive in. Can you repeat the name of the book and where people can find you, follow you? Also, if you're not following her, folks, do it now. She's one of the funniest humans on the internet.
00:48:22 Taylor
Well, thank you. It's called Birdie & Harlow: Life, Loss, and Loving My Dog So Much I Didn't Want Kids (…Until I Did). And you can find it wherever books are sold. And you can follow me on Instagram at The Daily Tay.
00:48:38 Alyssa
Sick. Thanks Taylor.
00:48:40 Taylor
Thank you for having me. Do you wanna, can we get a plug on your book where we can find it?
00:48:44 Alyssa
Yeah, sure. Hopefully they're listening, they've already got that.
00:48:48 Taylor
I would hope so too, but you never know.
00:48:50 Alyssa
Yeah, Tiny Humans Big Emotions, also wherever books are sold. It's a guide to raising emotionally intelligent kids.
00:48:59 Taylor
Look at us, doing the thing.
00:49:01 Alyssa
Doing the thing. Writing parenting books.
00:49:04 Taylor
And also being a little sick.
00:49:05 Alyssa
And also just being a little sick and tired.
00:49:09 Alyssa
Thanks for tuning in to Voices of Your Village. Check out the transcript at voicesofyourvillage.com. Did you know that we have a special community over on Instagram hanging out every day with more free content? Come join us at @seed.and.sew, S -E -W. Take a screenshot of you tuning in, share it on the gram and tag @seed.and.sew to let me know your key takeaway. If you're digging this podcast, make sure to subscribe so you don't miss an episode. We love collaborating with you to raise emotionally intelligent humans.
