Beyond the 9-to-5: Rethinking Work and Parenthood with Neha Ruch
0:00:00 Alyssa
You're listening to Voices of Your Village, and today I get to hang out with Neha Ruch. Neha is the founder of Mother Untitled, the leading platform for ambitious women embracing family life. As a thought leader, influencer, and sought -after speaker, Neha's work is shifting the narrative around stay -at -home motherhood, empowering women to find confidence and purpose in their parenting journey. Her book, The Power Pause: How To Plan A Career Break After Kids - And Come Back Stronger Than Ever offers powerful insights for those navigating career pauses and identity shifts. Neha lives in Manhattan with her two kids and their pup. I loved chatting with Neha so much because I find myself often living in the gray area in life. Things aren't very black and white in my brain and Neha really embraces that gray. It's not you work 40 plus hours a week or you stay at home. It's not this or that or forever and always. It's really looking at what's feasible in this season, what feels right in this season. And I have passed this book along to so many humans in my life who are finding themselves in that black and white and really looking for the gray. This is not just for folks who want to be a stay -at -home parent and leave the workforce or have been a stay -at -home parent and want to re -enter the workforce. It's for anyone who's a parent because it opens up our mind to so many things that we might have shoulds or should nots built in and biases around. I'm so stoked for y 'all to get to tune in to this beautiful human and this conversation. All right. Let's dive in.
00:01:49 Alyssa
Hey there. I'm Alyssa Blask Campbell. I'm a mom with a master's degree in early childhood education and co -creator of the Collaborative Emotion Processing Method. I'm here to walk alongside you through the messy, vulnerable parts of being humans raising other humans with deep thoughts and actionable tips. Let's dive in together.
00:02:10 Alyssa
I am super stoked that this book is out in the world, The Power Pause. Actually, my, it's so perfect for, you know, I'm mid -30s, got two young kids, like everyone in my sphere for the most part is like navigating this conversation in some way or another. And my best friend from college, right out of college started at Goldman Sachs and just has like worked in, worked her way up to like a huge salary and high power job. work was her identity in a lot of ways. And then had a kiddo, and she just left her job. And I just sent her this book. I was like, my friend, this is, I think, going to serve you so well in this season. So first of all, thank you for writing it because it is something that I wish I had when I first had Sage. When I had him, it wasn't long into having him and I was like, I think I want to quit Seed, like I think I want to pause all the things. And I didn't feel like I had a roadmap for what does that look like or even the questions to ask myself or consider. And as I was going through your book, I was just like, oh, this would have been such a useful tool for me in that season. And I'm so glad it exists for people who are in that season now or coming into that season, even to have as an option. So thank you.
00:03:44 Neha
Correct. Correct. And thank you for saying that because it's how I felt. I wish that someone had sort of taken my hand and said, you are still ambitious. This is one season. I admire you. I respect you. You belong to this incredible cohort of women that are still growing. And I know you feel a little stuck or like a little lost, but you're still growing. And this is how your story can actually serve you and belong. And I wanted that book for people because it didn't exist. And so you and I were talking before about how I'm feeling, and I just feel so happy it's finally out. And it's with women like your friend, which is wild to me.
00:04:21 Alyssa
It really is. Listen, I wrote a parenting book and there are 7 million parenting books in the world, and I can tell you what's different about mine, but there are also awesome parenting books I would recommend to people if mine didn't exist, right? Or in addition to, or whatever. This is something I haven't found. The book that you wrote is something I have not found. It truly is filling a gap, and I want to like walk through a little bit of it. I have some highlighted things here as I was going through. And first of all, I love the way it's broken up, that it kickstarts with that permission to pause, because that's the first thing that we need, right? That permission. Part two of find your footing as an at -home parent is just fully highlighted. I feel like I highlighted all the chapters in part two, because it's so good.
00:05:16 Neha
Well, part two has application to everyone, right? Everyone needs it in every season. I'm still going back to it now as I recalibrate around what I want this next chapter to feel like and look like and do it with some degree of intention.
00:05:35 Alyssa
That's exactly it. Part two, truly, I was like, I am a working parent and this applies to me. And the two that like really jumped out at me, one, the get help without guilt. I was like, can I maybe print this entire chapter out and just hang these pages around my house? Because yes, like this is something that I want on billboards. We went from women didn't have a choice to enter the workforce and they were at home taking care of the household, taking care of the kids, taking, we know, all the mental load, all the logistics, all that jazz, to, there was choice, but if you chose to enter the workforce, you still had all those other things that you were responsible for.
00:06:22 Neha
Mm -hmm, mm -hmm, mm -hmm. And I think that what's so sad is we've sort of dumbed parenthood down to diapers and laundry, and we've made it so, like, simple, but it's not simple. It's so far from simple, and the, like, real work of parenthood that is incredibly complex, right? And it varies from family to family. It's like sitting on the phone with the insurance providers to get your child's diagnosis testing covered, right? Or it's create like researching their new habit and figuring out, is it a big concern or is it a small part? It's the stuff you can't outsource and you need headspace for that. And you need to feel whole and healthy and supported to do that work well. So everyone deserves support, right? and no one can do all of it all by themselves, including women who have parted with paid work for a chapter, right? And I think the hardest part of this work is knowing that there are so many women who still feel like what I'm doing doesn't have immense value. So if I'm not doing work for pay, I don't deserve help, right? And if women who work for pay are still feeling that way, you know that it's not just the finances, it's also guilt. And that was why that chapter was so important because I had to work through it in such a big way.
00:07:42 Alyssa
Yeah. I do work for pay and still have that guilt. It's like, in what world? Yeah. So thank you. I think that that's a part of this. I actually want to spend a little more time on just like guilt itself, whether you're at home or you're working, I think guilt is something that we often hear about in motherhood and in community with other moms. We were actually, ironically, just having this conversation in our Seed offices yesterday. It's a lot of moms. And we were chatting about like, who feels guilt for what? And there was some shared guilt. And then there were some things where it was like, oh, I feel guilty when I do this. And other people that like, oh, I never feel guilty with that, but I feel guilty when I do this. And we were like chatting and I was like, I wonder if our partners and everyone that was present at that time has male partners would share the guilt in any of this. Like if they would also experience that guilt. And unanimously we were like, I don't think so. Why do you think that is?
00:08:55 Neha
They don't contend with the same comparison construct, right, and these sort of ideals that we've put on women, and they're all false ideals, right? I think this idea that every mother is doing all the things all by herself has been perpetuated by every form of media, right? And we've inherited that trope and we've hidden the child care. We've hidden that part of the, you know, I think it was Lauren Smith Brody who wrote this article, I think it was in 2012, called The Invisible Nannies of Instagram, right? You know, it speaks to this idea that we've created this archetype that is a composite of, you know, this mother cooks really well, this mother cleans really well, this mother works really well, and is this killing it in the corporate world? This mother's killing it in her business, but we don't show the childcare or the nuance of does she have an available partner or does she live near her grandparents? So we don't have this full picture. And then in a vacuum, we have been pitted against each other for so long that everyone's trying to make sense of their choices, right? And so we have this feeling of, between ourselves of if I'm making this choice that works for me, and she's making that choice, does it threaten in some way mine, right? And I think that we have to get to a place, and I think we really have this opportunity in our generation to heal this, where we need to get to a place that there are, we need more choices on the table that work for our families. We all have to make the right choice for our unique families. There is no research to say that one choice is better than the other, right? Let's take the one about working out of the home or in the home, or by the way, existing in between. Stuart Friedman had great research in 2012 called How Our Careers Impact Children. That book, or that recent body of work, highlights the fact that there is no bearing on your child's ambition. If you choose to work in the home and be at home with your kids, there is no bearing on your child's health and happiness if you choose to work out of the home. So really, if we can just own it as our own choices that work for us, and this applies to breastfeeding or co -sleeping and all the things, then I think we can put down the armor and say, we're all making the best choice we can. We're all also letting go of a lot of things and behind the scenes, right? And I think men have not, their parenthood has not been on display for long enough to be poked at in the same way and judged and defended in the same way.
00:11:40 Alyssa
Oh, that's so interesting. Yeah, that it hasn't been on display, that's an interesting thing for me to think about.
00:11:48 Neha
I watched this morning a dad, you know, a lot of dads do drop off in our school, which is fabulous, right? And by the way, I think dads are spending three times the amount of time with their kids than any generation prior, which is a huge part of this movement, is to say we have much more equitable partners than we did before, right? So we're not like hearkening back to yesteryear. If we choose to pause, these are modern relationships were existing. And, you know, this dad was at drop -off and one of the associate teachers came up and was like, oh my gosh, I haven't seen you in so long. And you could watch him get so defensive of like, well, I try and be here two times a week, you know, and I watched him have to defend his parenthood in a way that so many moms have had to for so long. And it was such an interesting role reversal. So I wonder if we sort of check back in on this conversation in five years, how that changes for the next generation of dads.
00:12:45 Alyssa
Yeah, and interesting, because I don't want that for them. I don't want them to have to defend their parenthood. I was sitting here saying, I wish I could just experience parenthood with the amount of guilt my husband experiences in parenthood. Not that he comes to our side. Not that he's living with more guilt, but that I could live with less.
00:13:10 Neha
Right.
00:13:10 Alyssa
And that's my hope. I remember when I first started teaching, I was teaching preschool in Brooklyn, and this parent came in for drop -off. I was just getting to know her at the beginning of the year, and we were chatting, and I was like, oh, what do you do for work? And she was like, oh, I don't work, I stay at home. And I had her youngest in my preschool room, and he came five days a week, he came nine to three, and I didn't understand it. I grew up in a low -income community. I'm one of five kids. My mom was a stay -at -home mom, largely worked. She would waitress nights and weekends and things just to make money. And for her, her dream would have been stay -at -home if they could afford that full -time. And instead, she had to pick up jobs outside of the home just to be able to afford to stay at home. And so that was my lens into the world, was that if you could stay at home, of course you would, and you would be with your kids. That's all I knew at that point. And so I was literally confused. I was like, but he comes to school. And she was like, yeah. And she just said to me, and it was such a change for me for the rest of my life, for the rest of my career for sure in early ed. She said, I'm such a better parent when he comes to school.
00:14:34 Neha
I'm so proud of her.
00:14:35 Alyssa
Yes. She taught me so much. She was confident in the answer. I was like, oh, okay, yeah. She was like, when I'm home with them 24 -7, I'm not the parent I want to be. She was like, but I take care of all the logistics in our household and all that jazz when he's at school. I was like, oh, yeah. That just made sense to me. It was a real shift for me. So grateful. I was like 22 and it was so helpful for me to hear that at that age.
00:15:07 Neha
Wow. I'm so impressed by her because obviously that's been a lot of the work of this movement is to give women the language to own the real privilege, if it is a privilege, right? One in three women actually are forced to pause their careers because of the cost of child care right now. So like, take that, you know, so regardless, to be able to own this chapter and then be able to be confident in the contribution, right? Like what I hear that she said too is, I'm not just taking care of these kids. I have to be full and healthy to take care of these kids. And I have to take care of all of the other administration and logistics that keeps our home and family functioning and our community thriving. And, you know, to be able to have had the clarity to voice that in a way that was not defensive, but clear, is so impressive. And I think then to be able to also own that she can set up her days to allow herself room to grow alongside these kids too. I mean, when we talked about that middle section of the book, a lot of it is just grounding women in the reality that if you do choose to step into a career breaks to raise your kids, right? Your success metric doesn't just become like how clean your house is and how well behaved your kids are. You are allowed to come up with your own metrics of success. And then based on that, then set up your days or set up your support structures to help you to achieve that. And it just sounds like she was able to get there, which is so empowering. And that's really, you know, the goal of the book is really to get more women to that place.
00:16:55 Alyssa
Yeah, and like just so influential for me as a young buck and turn into early childhood to hear that right out the gates of like, oh, also, Alyssa, for you, this is an option, right? Like it exposed me to something I had not yet experienced and I'm so grateful for that. One thing that I, this is a pet peeve of mine, is I think specifically like parenting influencers on Instagram, this comes up for me, but across the board, but it really comes up there of like, when there's help that exists, right? Your kids are in childcare or you have a nanny or somebody is coming to clean your house or whatever it is, that when you have help and we don't talk about that, and then folks on the outside don't know, like A, that's an option, and B, oh, it might be easier for me to show up and feel more resourced with my kids if I was able to outsource some of these things without guilt. And the idea of just like, yeah, when my kid chucks a block across the room and then I like I take this deep breath and I find my calm and I respond with intention and whatever. And like, yeah, hashtag goals. But it's so much easier for me to do that when I haven't been doing all of the things in my household and parenting and all that just without any support.
00:18:30 Neha
Yes, it's one of my, I share that. I share that and sometimes I wonder if I overshare about the resources I have, right? And I think that makes, you know that because that puts you in a vulnerable position. But I do think it's important and I'm very clear that I could not have created this in the beginning, right? This is a nine -year journey. First of all, this was a long game. When I was fully at home with those kids and didn't have a partner, you know, my husband shifted his career around the same time that my kids aged into school. So both of those things were two big unlocks, right? Suddenly my husband was more available and my kids were at school and we brought on a babysitter three afternoons a week. The combination of those things allowed me to be able to grow the platform in 2021, 2022 to the point that I could get a book deal and focus on growing the movement as well as writing the book. Prior to that, it was a lot of getting intentional of, I want to move myself forward toward this goal state of building this platform. What is possible for me with the help and time I have available to me, right? And for chapters that was my husband waking up for, you know, in the mornings and I would take the morning to myself because he really, and I had a lot of conversations about the fact that he was able to build his startup. He was able to single task on that because I was doing the work in the home, right? And so after many conversations, we got to a place of, okay, he was gonna wake up with the kids every morning so I could use that time to do a little bit of movement, a little bit of meditation, a little bit of work on this, at the time, small blog and Instagram, right? And I think this idea of when it's small, oftentimes for so many women, and they're not fully at home, they're working on some sort of project alongside. And I think that can be really hard to look at those other people who've grown their platforms and think, well, why can't I do that? And I remember getting so stuck on that and realizing, well, I can't do that because I'm actively choosing to do this instead. And I'm letting go of the pace at which I'm operating for now. And I'm gonna revisit this every year as my kids get older and we think about bringing on additional resources, right? And I think that context is so important, whether you're fully at home for a season, or you're holding on to these businesses alongside, because it shapes a lot of the movement that you're able to put into projects or more.
00:21:14 Alyssa
100%. Yes. And I appreciate, I don't think there is an oversharing of the resources. I appreciate that. And one of the things that I do that we don't actually super talk about a whole lot at Seed is private consultations. So families can fly me in, I'll go, I'll travel. I usually go for two days, I stay, I observe the kids, and then I do a workshop usually for the nannies or childcare support that are helping to raise these tiny humans. Sometimes parents are involved as well. And every time I do this, it is so validating when I walk into fully staffed households, and I'm like, oh, this is what it takes to run a household. They have a chef, they have a full -time cleaning staff, they have how many nannies, they have whatever, and that's what it really takes to run a household. And then I come home and we don't have a chef and we don't have a full -time cleaning staff and all this, and I'm like, oh, right. This is why it feels hard to do more, to show up regulated all the time, to whatever. And we do have a bunch of support. We live a mile from my mother -in -law who comes every Friday to help and hang out with the kiddos and all that jazz. And we do have a kiddo in childcare and a nanny who travels with me when I work when my kids are young and nursing. And still it's like, also would love a chef, also would love a cleaning staff, like also would love all these things. And when I step into these spaces where all that exists, for me, it just feels validating of like, yeah, that's all the behind the scenes work that so many of us are just doing in our day to day. Like if you really fully staffed it out, that's what it looks like. And like, wow, yeah, we of course can't quote, do it all. And like, what does that even mean?
00:23:19 Neha
Well, I think you have to define your all, right? And I think that that's this idea of you get to pick and choose what matters to you. And I think whether you're at home for a chapter and you, I think a lot of this work is about telling women just because you have chosen to make a shift in your career, to make room for family life, doesn't mean you're making room for some idealized version of family life, right? You are allowed to make room for what family life looks like for you in this season. And so for me, I'll tell you, I set up my day -to -day and I talk about this for art, because I love art. I love messy play. I did not clean up. My husband hated it, right? Like to this day, we have to replace our dining table because it's A, half broken from leaning on it and it's covered in glitter because we could never get it out, even though I told him we would and we never did. But that worked for me, but I didn't do perfect neat. My kids still eat chicken nuggets and hot dogs and mac and cheese, and because I didn't spend my naps and nighttimes focusing on that. And by the way, there are consequences to that, right? I've very, you know, selective eaters. And I made that choice to focus on something that filled me up too. And I chose to conserve naps and nighttimes to work on something that filled me up at the time. I think we all have to pick, and we get to revisit it. I think some of the thinking that has made us also fearful is that we're gonna make a choice and then we're gonna be trapped in that choice and it's gonna have huge bearing on the end. And I think there's very little that is permanent, right? And I think we get, it's very freeing when we say right now, we're focusing on this, we're letting go of that, and we're accepting that it's a long game, whether we're talking about parenting, we're talking about work, we're talking about wellness, right? I think that that is, you know, and when you talk about sort of the fully staffed homes, I think two things come up. One, I think I so admire that you can look at it and with curiosity and with appreciation and without judgment, because I think we've sort of, part of the reason people hide their help is because privilege in this country has become so weaponized as to like, they're somehow doing less if they enjoy it, right? And we want, I think, to your comparison to your husband, we want everyone to feel supported. And if they can't bring in help, paid help, what can they let go of, right? Like, what can you outsource to your partner? Or what ball can you just choose to drop or lower the standard on, right? I think that's the other piece. Like, if we're not going to be fully staffed, and we know that that's actually what it takes to run a pristine home and a pristine business, then what can we let go of in this chapter?
00:26:19 Alyssa
That is, for me, the most freeing part of moving through your work is the permission to let go. In fact, you shared recently on Instagram and stories something about the art and the messiness and the dinners and the picky eaters and whatever. I screenshotted it and I put it in my favorites because I was like, I have to come back to this over and over and over because that is for me, there's a limit to the paid help we can bring in. And I have the privilege in my work of getting to work, I do drop off and pick up most days and I work about 25 -ish hours a week right now in this season. And are times where I'm like, oh my gosh, I'm excited for when the kids are in school and I'll have five full days of working, whatever. And then there are times where I'm like, oh no, I want this forever, right? It ebbs and flows. And for me, knowing that in this season, I get to prioritize and choose where my time and attention goes and knowing that every time I say yes to drop off and pick up, it means I'm saying no to other things and allowing that to be okay, is freeing for me. The like, there is no doing it all and that defining the like, what does enough look like in this season is so helpful. Just yesterday, I texted my friend, Eli Harwood. She runs AttachmentNerd, she's a therapist who does research in attachment. And I texted her and I was like, hi, I need to chat. Please tell me your honest opinion, do not sugarcoat it. As a working parent who travels in seasons for work, am I ruining the attachment that I have with my tiny humans, especially when they're young? And she was like, no, but also call me because let's talk through this so you can feel good about the choice that you're making. That it is a choice and it's all a season is so freeing for me. My neighbor has four young kiddos and is a stay -at -home parent. And she was just saying, she was like, I am at the point now with two of them in school and one going to preschool next year, I'm like, I feel ready to start doing things outside the home in small ways that fill me up. And it was another just reminder to me of like, it's all seasons, it's all seasons.
00:29:01 Neha
Tell her to read chapter 7 now.
00:29:04 Alyssa
Yeah, I got her the book.
00:29:07 Neha
Oh, good. But I think that there's, I think that we have been fed these fears on all the sides, right? The fear that if we focus on our work out of the home, we're somehow damaging our children. And then if we choose to focus on the work in the home with the kids, we are somehow giving up our careers and our selfhood, right? And first of all, I mean, I love your honesty around 25 hours a week and being there for drop off and pick up because is the reality is so many more of us exist in between. From you who has constructed a work life that allows you room for family life while staying connected to your professional pursuit, to your neighbor who has shifted for a chapter but is acknowledging that she has a desire to return to paid work outside of the home ultimately. And I think that is the ultimate goal of this work is to be able to dismantle these sort of black and white notion, these very polarizing ideas of stay at home and working because that construct has made it feel very fixed and finite, and it's made it feel very divisive, right? As opposed to all shifting. I mean, even the data shows it, right? One in three women working out of the home are looking to pause in the next two years. One in two are considering a downshift in the next two years. 90 % of the women on pause are aiming to return to the workforce, meaning that if we we can just sort of embrace this much more fluid narrative between work and family, think it will just relieve so much of the pressure cooker that we're all operating in. And then the implications of that become more far -reaching.
00:30:51 Alyssa
100%, yeah. And I think nail on the head, like there's so much gray. And I think by shifting the narrative and talking about this in the way that you do in your work, it allows us to look at the gray and even consider like, what might be a better fit for me? Is there something else? My best friend went through a divorce in the last couple of years, and she, you know, they separated homes and now they're living in different places. They have two young kids, and she just hit a place where she was like, I'm gonna go on short -term disability from work for six weeks because I need a little mini pause. I need to just recalibrate and pause on work and my focus needs to shift right now to family and I can't afford to do that, just like quit my job. And so I'm gonna do a short -term disability and we're gonna do it for six weeks and it'll be a financial hit and I need this in order to recalibrate. And I was like,
00:31:54 Neha
Good for her.
00:31:54 Alyssa
So cool. Yes, so rad. that. And that is just like another one of the grays, right? And like, I think it's easy for people to hear like, oh, I get to do drop off and pick up every day and like, wow, cool. I wish I had that flexibility. But then I also will be traveling for most of the month of March, right? And like, we'll...
00:32:15 Neha
Or working at night, right? And I think that there's no version, right, that is perfect. There is no everything. Do I want more options on the table for women? That is the goal, right? We want more options in the table. We want women to be able to access those without penalty and without shame and with support no matter what their choices. And there is no one version that is perfect. And some have been glorified. And I think entrepreneurship is one of them that has been glorified in recent years. When in reality, it comes at a cost. You know, there's a blessing and burden with flexibility because you are constantly making the choice as to how you're spending your time, right? And in a way, the guilt upticks because you're constantly facing it every day because you do have a choice as to how you're allocating your hours, right? If you choose not to chaperone that field trip, even though you could, that is an active choice or vice versa. If you choose chaperone and you're not moving your work forward. And it comes with a different level of headspace stress. I think whenever people are thinking about flexibility, I always think about, well, what are you optimizing for? Is it more hours, physical hours with your children? Is it more headspace, right? Like I hear that a lot with teen parents is they don't necessarily need the hours, they need more headspace because there are a lot of big -
00:33:42 Alyssa
It's not as physical, but it's very emotional.
00:33:46 Neha
Yes, it is. And it's also, it demands a different level of presence because the hours you have with them are so short. And so I hear from a lot of parents that they just want that sort of drop off to pick up, like those hours in the car to be fully there, willing to listen and absorb and not react, right? And so in any of those sort of seasons of evaluating, well, what am I optimizing for? There's no one solution besides the right one for you and your family.
00:34:18 Alyssa
Yeah. And I, I just love the embracing of the gray of that solution is a for now solution. And it doesn't have to be a forever solution. Yeah.
00:34:30 Neha
And if I were to leave you with one sort of practical thing, you know, for a lot of women, they struggle with, how do you answer the question, what do you do? And I often, especially when they parted with their work in any capacity or sort of shifted from the corporate role that they might have gleaned a lot of identity, especially I hear from teachers all the time that when they're teachers, they're able to like, and immediately conveys like, I'm empathetic, I'm great with kids, I'm nurturing. And then suddenly, you know, we have a culture that puts a lot of stock in what we do to stand in for who we are, right? And so now they don't have this pithy way of expressing. And if we just sort of like allow our answer not to be this fixed title, like I'm a stay -at -home mom or I'm a working mom. No one would ever say that on a, no one would say I'm a working mom. So why say I'm a stay -at -home mom? You could just say right now, I get to be with my kids. We'll see what comes next, right? Or I get to spend time with my kids. Cause that's what you're actually doing. And you're sort of leaving the openness. And I think the more you practice that, the more you can stand in, I'm open to whatever the next chapter holds and I'm really able to embrace where I am right now.
00:35:45 Alyssa
Yeah. I love that. I think so much of it is identity, right? That like, I was just chatting with a stay -at -home parent the other day who, she was like, oh yeah, well, I was an architect and now I'm at home with the kids. And, but it started with, I was an architect and in my head, I was like, you are still an architect. Like, that's still a part of your identity. And right now you're home with the kids. And I think it's almost like this canceling out of like, I was this, because you're no longer working currently in that job doesn't mean you aren't still that.
00:36:28 Neha
Exactly. Your skills and your experience don't evaporate. You get to decide what of that identity you're taking with you. And then you think of this next chapter, not as sort of the death knell of your career or your selfhood, but really a way in which to explore how you're gonna grow in new ways and another layer to your identity. As opposed to, I think, you know, all these words we've used for so long, a gap, an opt -out, a step back, lean, like we've implied this sense of loss as opposed to a sense of exploration or expansion in a new direction, a shift towards new priorities in another layer to really robust portfolio that makes you who you are as a professional and as a human being.
00:37:11 Alyssa
How much of it do you think comes back to the lack of value we place on raising humans? Like I felt this, I have a master's in early childhood education and my favorite age group that I ever taught was infant toddler. And 100 % of the time when people would ask what I did and I'd say I was a teacher and they would say, what age do you teach? And I would say infants and toddlers. I would then have to follow it up for myself with I have a master's in early childhood of like a, I'm qualified, I'm valuable, I'm whatever. Like, and we feel this so much in the early childhood world. I mean, we still have folks like New York Times referring to us as day care workers. And there is this like, very much, we are so far from the societal shift we need around valuing early childhood educators. And I wonder how much of that comes into play here of like, we don't value this as work. It's really seen as like, anyone could do it. Like you could step in and work in a, I'm gonna put this in quotes "daycare". Anyone could choose to leave their job and stay at home. There is, I think, it's talked about in a way where there is no value to it.
00:38:32 Neha
Exactly. I think there's two parts because we live in a capitalist society and we've said that money is power for so long and there has been no economic value tied to care for too long. right? It's only now, post -pandemic, right, that we're waking up to the fact that there's a child care crisis. Why might that be? And by the way, if there's a child care crisis, how are we losing all of these other workers, right? And only now are we waking up to that economic value. But I think there's another step of that, right, which is it's not just about assigning economic value, because I do think child care stipends and all of that make sense, but I think the lack of support for families and education is a chronic undervaluing of the real intellectual and emotional labor that it takes to create a healthy society, right?
00:39:33 Alyssa
100%.
00:39:34 Neha
By that I mean, and I see it on social media all the time, we've sort of dumbed down parenting to these means of diapers and laundry, right? And we haven't talked about the complexity and the nuance. And I think your work is so important in that way. And other educators who I admire in this space because $241.1 million a year is spent on parenting content a year. Parenting books, 141 million on parenting apps. So obviously there's like real research and knowledge and planning and systems and advocacy that goes into raising our kids and navigate really complicated health care and education systems to try and make sure that this next generation is well served. And so, you know, it's funny that we can sort of profit off of it, but we don't recognize it as like true nuanced work. And I think it's going to take more people standing up and talking about the nuance of care to start to dignify it in the way that we need.
00:40:43 Alyssa
Yeah, I agree. I think that that's a huge part of also people not being able to or feeling uncomfortable with like standing in that truth of I'm choosing to stay at home and that there's so much value in that. If 80 % of the brain is formed by the time a kid's three and 90 % by the time they're five, you're doing such crucial, important work if you're interacting with a human under the age of five. And to just like, I guess, the idea that anybody can do this without support, without help, without systems in place to support them is bonkers to me.
00:41:29 Neha
It's bonkers. We live in a country. I mean, that is the fundamental, like I can slice this a million ways. You know, the cost of childcare, and there's many reasons. And by the way, a lot of parents, I think it's like 80 % are optimizing for just less stress in the home because it's stressful having two parents working out of the home full time and without proper systems. But also there's just a valid want to spend time with your kids. That is a very valid want. I don't know how, as a culture, we made that seem antiquated or like baffles me. I think, by the way, it's an equally valid want to say what makes me happy and whole is continuing my professional career and showing up for my kids in that way and being present, you know, after work. Like that's equally, but it's equally valid to say, And yes, I'm ambitious, but also I really enjoy my kid. And I'm curious about how he's learning. By the way, this is really hard to do both of these things. And I want to shift toward this thing like that. It's so simple that it has felt, sometimes it like truly shocks me that this is where we are, but I'm so glad that we are at a place in culture that we're open to it. And we're having these conversations now. Cause I do think that this has sort of been a great reckoning of where we lost a lot as a country around family.
00:42:57 Alyssa
Agreed. And I think back to like Brené Brown's two things can be true of like, you can love spending time with your kids or be curious about them and also not be the parent you want to be when you're with them 24 -7. And so finding like, what is the right setup for me? And that's brings us right back to your work. I have a friend who recently, she's the CEO of an organization locally that's a pretty big organization and we were chatting. She has two kids and she was like, I feel like I am not supposed to say this out loud, but I don't want to be home right after work at five o 'clock and spending our evenings together. I feel like we just end up bickering and fighting with each other, et cetera. She's like, what fills me up is when I'm home on the evenings, a couple nights a week, and the other nights I go to a workout class right after work or I can stay at this event that's happening at work and not feel like, oh, I have to go home because I haven't seen my kids since this morning before school. We just unpacked it a little bit and I was like, what would it look like if somebody else picked them up from school and helped get dinner on the table and get them set up and you came home after doing that workout class. What would that mean to you to not be the one who's greeting them for after school and making dinner?" And she was like, yeah, but can I do that? And I was like, why can't you do that? It was all this societal narratives of two things can be true. You can love these humans and being with them 24 seven might not be the right choice for your family. You can love these humans and being with them 24 -7 may be the right choice for your family. And there's so much in between.
00:44:47 Neha
Yeah. There's so much in between. And by the way, no one should have to work 24 -7 without breaks. Like, I agree. And so if you are at home 24 -7, which I was, and I still needed breaks, right? And I really was better for it, but it took a long time to get over, get myself past that. This idea, and I think it's a fundamental idea that our families deserve to be whole and healthy, and we deserve to be whole and healthy, whatever it takes to do that. That is what serves our children the best.
00:45:17 Alyssa
Yeah. Neha, I love you and this work, and I'm so grateful for this. Thank you. Thank you. Folks snag The Power Pause: How to Plan a Career Break After Kids and Come Back Stronger Than Ever. Neha, where can folks find you?
00:45:33 Neha
You can find me on Instagram @motheruntitled, or you can pop over to the site. We have a of free resources for those of you who can't get the book right now. And you can subscribe to the newsletter at motheruntitled.com.
00:45:46 Alyssa
Yeah, and ask your library to carry it.
00:45:49 Alyssa
Stay tuned after this note from our sponsors. Rach and I will be right back with the breakdown.
00:45:53
[Music]
00:45:59 Alyssa
Move around me. And I'm like, buddy, her brain doesn't see where you are. She's not trying to bump into you. But for him, that's so foreign because he has such high proprioceptive awareness. He can like bob and weave between things. Like.
00:46:11 Rachel
I mean, that's Noni. I can be sitting next to her, but like barely really not even touching her. And she's like, can you please move away? Like she, you know, meanwhile Abel like runs into me so hard to sit in my lap that he like knocks me backwards. And then he's like, what mama, what's wrong? I'm like, nothing. You just completely plowed me over.
00:46:32 Alyssa
Yeah, hello. Actually Zach, oh my gosh, this is hilarious. So, you know, she's just such a shitty sleeper.
00:46:41 Rachel
Yeah. The worst.
00:46:43 Alyssa
And last night she was up, not a lie, eight times.
00:46:47 Rachel
Beans.
00:46:48 Alyssa
Eight times.
00:46:49 Rachel
Like, what does she want from you? Just to hang?
00:46:52 Alyssa
So we go around and around. This is the thing, it's unclear. Like, Zach this morning was like, I think we shouldn't give her beans at dinner time because I think it's... And I was just like, I...
00:47:04 Rachel
You are just grasping at straws at this point.
00:47:07 Alyssa
And I was like, I don't think it's the beans at dinner that...
00:47:11 Rachel
But you get so desperate that you're like, please let me identify a reason so I can make it stop.
00:47:18 Alyssa
Yeah. Something. I actually think that it's proprioceptive seeking and we have not let her come into our bed in a long time unless she's sick, then she's upright, propped up on my arm and I don't sleep, my narrative for me is I don't sleep as well when she's in bed with me, but she's only in bed with me when she's sick. And so I don't know what it looks like with her in bed with me when she's not sick, and not does she need to still be propped up on my arm, things like that.
00:47:51 Rachel
Totally.
00:47:51 Alyssa
And Zach was like, oh my gosh, the middle of the night, he was like, I think it's got to be gas because she's climbing all over me. And I was like, no, she's just proprioceptive seeking. I was like, she will be nursing at any hour of the day, it could be 3 a .m. or 3 p .m. She's like doing down dog. My dad the other day was like, is she nursing right now? And I was like, yep. And he was like, and doing gymnastics. And I was like, yep. Like nonstop movement. She's such a sensory seeker. She cannot stop moving. And even when she's sitting, she'll sit in a spot where she can kind of like a beanbag where she can like sink in and be enclosed and snug. She's just seeking so much of that input that my theory is that she just wants to be touching and wants that input throughout the night.
00:48:40 Rachel
So you're gonna bring her into bed?
00:48:42 Alyssa
Her pediatrician was like, you're gonna get a dog and throw it in her crib? And I was like -
00:48:47 Rachel
Yeah, Zach mentioned that at one point.
00:48:48 Alyssa
Yeah, that came up when she, I said that came up when she was six months old actually. And I said to Zach, I was like, Zach's like Sage, where he likes his own space. And so he doesn't, we have a king size bed and it's perfect for us because we don't have to really come near each other. I was like, I'm open to a few different options.
00:49:14 Rachel
The best option is for him to leave the bed. Don't you feel that?
00:49:18 Alyssa
We have a really nice bed and he doesn't wanna do that.
00:49:23 Rachel
Okay.
00:49:24 Alyssa
He isn't opposed to her being in our bed if he knows it's not forever, right? And forever for him means like he does not like even want 12 years of this or a decade of this. Like if he knew, and so what we talked about last night, it's like what if when she wakes up the first time, I pull her into bed and she sleeps in bed with us, and then when she's old enough to be able to have a back and forth conversation verbally, which is actually not that far off, then we can navigate talking to her about what's available for her when she wakes up at night if she needs that snuggle or needs that pressure or whatever. We had a small weighted lap pad as a weighted blanket for her for a little while and that was really helpful, but when she moves at some point, it comes off of her and she doesn't yet have the awareness or skill set to be like, oh, I want that feeling, I need to pull my blanket back up.
00:50:27 Rachel
Right.
00:50:27 Alyssa
I was like, but she's going to get there within a year. Like, that is not that far off.
00:50:32 Rachel
Not far off.
00:50:34 Alyssa
His other concern is about when I'm traveling, because I travel a bunch for work. And he's like, what's it going to look like with her in our bed if you're traveling? Because right now, when she's in our bed, she's in my bed.
00:50:47 Rachel
Right, she's next to you.
00:50:48 Alyssa
Correct. And if she even like accidentally touches Zach, she's like, eh. Like, why are you here? Get out of my way. And so he's in like all fairness, like we don't know. There's unknowns to this. And I was like, I don't know. I'm going to California on Friday and I'm gonna be gone for three nights and he's gonna be solo parenting for those three nights. I also offered up, like we have a mattress that we could put, it's a queen size mattress we could put down in her room. And I was like, we could also, when she wakes up, if you want to soothe her and then lay down in there with her and see how that goes, like if she gets your like soothing and then gets to like lay down next to you, see how that goes, you're going to be solo anyway, so.
00:51:35 Rachel
And honestly, with you not even physically present, she'd probably take him at night.
00:51:39 Alyssa
That's what I wonder, like, yeah, I'm not going to be an option anyway.
00:51:44 Rachel
Yeah, my Abel's very different when I'm gone.
00:51:47 Alyssa
Yeah, what does he do?
00:51:48 Rachel
So when I'm home, he wants me for bedtime and it's very difficult if he doesn't get me, which he only doesn't get me if I feel like Nora's like literally in emotional crisis at which point I'm like, I'm going to her.
00:52:02 Alyssa
But then even like throughout the night, since you sleep in there, like what happens when you're traveling or you're out of town?
00:52:08 Rachel
So he is totally accepting of Cody doing bedtime when I'm gone. Like will hold Cody's hand to fall asleep, whatever. And usually, Cody will either have all three of them in the same room, or what he's been doing most recently, which has been working really well, is having Nora and Abel sleep together.
00:52:25 Alyssa
Yeah.
00:52:25 Rachel
Nora has a queen bed in her room, and so what Cody will do is he'll make Abel a bed with like a nugget on the floor. Nora and Cody will lay in the queen bed for like falling asleep time, and then once the kids are asleep, Cody will go out. And sometimes he'll end up sleeping back in with them, or sometimes not. but Abel's very flexible when I'm not there. He just doesn't want to be alone.
00:52:49 Alyssa
Yeah, and I think that's, Beans doesn't want to be alone. Sagey has a bunk bed. And so I've also been like, when she, and he likes the top bunk because it has a rail on the side and he doesn't want to fall. And the irony.
00:53:02 Rachel
So good, from crib to top bunk. Okay, buddy.
00:53:05 Alyssa
A hundred percent. And it has a, it's a trundle. So it's a bunk bed with a trundle. And we were like, we could also, when she's in like a year or so, throw her on that bottom bunk. She's not there yet at 15 months where she would stay or throw her in the trundle or whatever where she would stay. Also because she's never met a boundary she didn't want to push.
00:53:34 Rachel
Yeah.
00:53:37 Alyssa
But when she's two, I think she will be at a place where she will just want to be in the same room enough that it's worth it for her to stay. Yeah, so I think it's really just a like language communication milestone that will help shift this into a thing where it's like, yeah, it doesn't always have to be us that's laying with her.
00:54:03 Rachel
Yeah. Yep.
00:54:05 Alyssa
Yeah, if I didn't travel for work, we'd already have pulled her in.
00:54:09 Rachel
Yeah.
00:54:11 Alyssa
But that is a barrier Zach's nervous about.
00:54:15 Rachel
That makes sense.
00:54:16 Alyssa
Totally. So much unknown. But I was like, Zach, you were up six times with her last night. Like, could it be worse? I guess, maybe.
00:54:24 Rachel
One thing, I do struggle. Like, nighttime parenting, when I know I don't have Cody to call on, does, there is like an added. Yeah, you just feel trapped. You feel trapped and you feel, like, I am always like, well, if one kid needs me and then the other one gets woken up, it's always that, right? Of like, knowing you might have to be in multiple places at one time. And when you have kids that are a sensory mismatch at night, it feels really hard.
00:54:47 Alyssa
Actually this weekend, so I leave Friday morning, Maddie's coming Thursday to Sunday. So he'll be solo with the kids Sunday night, I'll be back Monday, but she's gonna come and Sagey's obsessed with her. Sagey wants her to sleep on his bottom bunk, like a whole thing.
00:55:02 Rachel
It'll be so good.
00:55:03 Alyssa
It'll be so good and just so good for Zach because he can just be on Beans and Sage will be stoked to have Aunt Maddie here.
00:55:12 Rachel
Yeah, yeah, that's awesome.
00:55:13 Alyssa
And she's sleeping in his room and basically just gonna do all Sagey things. Yeah. Who are we chatting about today?
00:55:20 Rachel
Okay, today we are chatting about Neha Ruch.
00:55:23 Alyssa
Yes, I love her. So we've become like text friends. We were actually supposed to meet up when I was in New York in the city and then she had norovirus. Yeah, and then I had to emergency leave because -
00:55:35 Rachel
Oh, Beaners.
00:55:37 Alyssa
Yeah, went to the emergency room. But I love her And I'm really excited to continue to get to know her and collaborate with her. I think the way that she presents information about motherhood speaks to how my brain works where I'm really not a black and white person. I really live in the gray a lot of like, I mean, even becoming a female founder and being like, yeah, I'm gonna work 25, 30 hours a week and run a team of 12 and build this thing, whatever. It requires the ability to be in the gray a lot. and not be like, there's one path and I do this or I do that or whatever. And that's how she presents information. It's just like, it's gray. And this is the right now decision and what's working in this capacity. I also love how openly she talks about the support and help that she has and has always tapped into as a stay -at -home mom as well, that she also came with privilege to do so, but had paid help. And I don't think we talk about that enough. In fact, I had a friend the other day, I was like, how are you doing this? It feels like you just have things, feels like they're cruising. And she's got three kids and whatever. And she was like, oh, I have a house cleaner who comes every other week, and I'm only doing grocery orders. In fact, we do like a meal service, like the like Factor meals or whatever. She's like, we do a meal service that for two nights a week where I don't have to think about dinner or whatever, and like listed all these ways she's like outsourcing things. And I was like, oh, thank God, like, because I look at it and I'm like, how are you doing this with the same resources I'm doing this with? And it's like, oh, we have different resources.
00:57:29 Rachel
Yeah. Yeah. I think something that I really took away from this is there's no one right way to do it. She talks about how sometimes when parents decide to pause from work and be home, there's this idea that you're losing your skill set or you're losing your status or position in the professional world. And the way that she validates caretaking work and says like, it's so much more than diapers and laundry, which it is. That really resonated for me. And also just like, yeah, embracing the gray. And I guess for me in motherhood, it's like embracing and allowing for different seasons. I had a season where I wasn't working and I was just home. And at that time it felt very fulfilling. Then I reached a point where it didn't feel fulfilling anymore.
00:58:24 Alyssa
And like, there was a gradual increase. It wasn't like, it wasn't fulfilling. and then you went to a 40 -hour -a -week job. You were like, I need something.
00:58:33 Rachel
Right.
00:58:33 Alyssa
That's great. I need something too, sister. Come on over.
00:58:36 Rachel
Right. And the adjustments that happen family -wise and discussions that... Because sometimes if I'm like, sorry, guys, I can't do this. I need to finish up this task at work. They'll sometimes be like, why do you have to? And explaining to them outside of finances, which at this point, we do need me to be working. But outside of that, it's using my brain in a different way makes it so that then when I'm spending time with them, I'm so much more present and regulated and able to be with them the way that I wanna be with them.
00:59:09 Alyssa
It just brings you joy, right?
00:59:12 Rachel
Yeah.
00:59:12 Alyssa
Like, I'm like, this is something that makes me feel happy that I really enjoy. I've tried to like be mindful of how I talk about work with the kids. It's like, I love being with you. and I love the work I get to do. In fact, I did this work for free until last year. I didn't, because I love it, you know? And like, I would still do it for free. Like, I don't, if that went away, I would still do it. And I want to be mindful of that when I'm talking to the kids about work. that for me, it's not just, I have to do this to put food on the table, which is what I often heard. So that you can have food to eat and a roof over your head and wanna let them know like, this is actually something that really fills me up into that it's not just when I talk about work, but then when Zach and I like went away and we had our little, what's supposed to be two night getaway, it ended up being a night. And Sagey was like, I don't want you to go. And I was like, totally. I love being around you. And I love having time with just daddy. Like when you and I have dates where it's just Sagey-mama dates and this is gonna be a mama -dada date and then we'll be back. And for my kids to see that I'm a whole person outside of them, that they're an incredible part of my life, but that I'm a whole person outside of them and I'm a whole person outside of my work, right? That it's not that one of those things defines who I am.
01:00:52 Rachel
Yeah, I think it's so important for kids to know that we are whole people outside of motherhood because it can easily turn into a situation where it's a lot of pressure on them, where they feel like they're our whole universe. And so they have to like show up in a certain way to make sure that we don't crumble or, you know, lose it or whatever. And I never -
01:01:15 Alyssa
Or even make life decisions down the road of like, I gotta move home to be near my parents. It feels like I am the world or whatever.
01:01:21 Rachel
Yeah I don't want that.
01:01:21 Rachel
I don't want that either. I also don't want my kids to live away from me, but I wouldn't ever want them to feel pressure to be near me because they feel like I can't be emotionally whole if they're not physically with me.
01:01:33 Alyssa
Yeah, I mean, please come live in my house, but -
01:01:37 Rachel
Just live in my house. You can bring your spouse, have your kids here. Have a home birth, I'll help you.
01:01:42 Alyssa
I'll watch your kids. Intergenerational parenting right here. Come on, let's do it.
01:01:46 Rachel
I would be so happy.
01:01:47 Alyssa
I mean, that's what we're trying to do with Zach's mom. Yeah. Like, we're going to buy a house and can you build an ADU on our property?
01:01:55 Rachel
Also it's just good for kids. I wish that our culture encouraged intergenerational living more than it does.
01:02:06 Alyssa
Same.
01:02:07 Rachel
I hate -
01:02:07 Alyssa
It's so expensive. Like, why don't we just live together?
01:02:11 Rachel
I know. It is so expensive. There's, yeah, there's so much there. But yeah, I think embracing the gray for me and also allowing myself to change as a mom as like my kids have gotten older and I did not spend a lot of time away from them when they were younger and I'm still with them a lot. But this year I've traveled more than I ever have before away from them. And I think it's really good for them. And it's not easy. They never want me to leave.
01:02:46 Alyssa
Totally.
01:02:47 Rachel
And there's always a lot of like, I wish you didn't have to go. Why have you been going places without me? Things like that. Why do you have a life?
01:02:58 Alyssa
Thought I was your life. Excuse me.
01:03:00 Rachel
Yeah. But I think that it's it's good for them and it is hard for me to leave them. So that's like something to work on, too, is like I always feel anxiety when I leave them.
01:03:13 Alyssa
Hmm. I don't usually feel anxiety. I sometimes feel guilt, although that's been getting a lot better. I've been doing a lot of work on this. Leaving Beans for the first time was the hardest.
01:03:30 Rachel
Of course, and she's a baby.
01:03:32 Alyssa
Exactly, she was like 14 months old and I didn't leave Sagey until he was two and so there's all that.
01:03:37 Rachel
And there were all these stories you were telling yourself.
01:03:39 Alyssa
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, and she is obsessed with me. And I have also realized in these little mini trips that I've been taking work -wise, it's restorative for me. To sleep in a bed, even though I'm working the whole time and I'm traveling and it's not like I'm on vacation, but to sleep in a bed by myself, sometimes through the night and like just, or even like get done with work stuff and not immediately jump right into parenting.
01:04:15 Rachel
Yeah, like get to veg out for a second.
01:04:18 Alyssa
Yeah, or just like catch up on things instead of being like, oh, after bedtime, I'll catch up on that. Like finish presenting and go back and like pop it in my inbox and then have dinner and unwind and just have a little mini parenting break has been a gift for me in how I'm able to show up and has helped me also see, like, she's doing great. She's okay without me there all the time. And I took an emergency flight home for a billion dollars in New York City because she was in the ER, right? Like, both of those are true, that I, it's not like I'm fully like, oh, everything's fine without me. Like, there's definitely still times where I've been like, I gotta get home.
01:05:01 Rachel
Oh, for sure, yeah.
01:05:04 Alyssa
And I have my longest trip yet coming up here soon. I'm gonna be gone for four days and that's, yeah, that'll be the longest.
01:05:12 Rachel
It's a long time.
01:05:13 Alyssa
So far. Yeah. Yeah. Since the last one lasted a day and a half. I like had set them up so it was like gradually increasing and this last one was supposed to be like two and a half days and then this one would be four days.
01:05:32 Rachel
Whoopsies. Actually, our team trip in May will be the longest I've left my kids.
01:05:39 Alyssa
Yeah, that'll be my longest too. And I'm presenting at a conference the full day on that Thursday. And I'm working at a school district in Western New York on that Monday. So I won't see them. I'll leave. I won't. I'll see them maybe Thursday, probably not even Thursday morning. And then I won't see them again until Tuesday.
01:06:00 Rachel
Yeah, it's a long time.
01:06:01 Alyssa
It's a long time. It's a long time. That one will be tricky for me.
01:06:06 Rachel
Yeah. Yeah, I know. It's something that I struggle with, just even being gone for two days. I mean, I do it, because it's good for me and it's good for them, but I'm just like, there's a part of me that just doesn't want to.
01:06:22 Alyssa
Totally. Yeah, and this is where I think like, Neha's work is so helpful for me, because it helps me sit with the like, why, what's coming up there? What message have you been told? And where's the gray? You know, that it's not just that you're gone all the time or you're present all the time.
01:06:42 Rachel
Yeah, for sure.
01:06:43 Alyssa
And I appreciate that. I actually, one of my best friends had her first kiddo and he's a month older than Beans. And she just decided to take a pause from work and kind of figure out what she wants to do next. She worked a job that was really intense in a lot of hours. and she was like, it just doesn't feel right for me in this season. And she wasn't sure what she wanted to do next, and I just sent her Neha's book, and she is devouring it. She was like, oh my gosh, this is exactly what I needed in this season. So thanks, Neha.
01:07:18 Rachel
Yeah, for sure. It's so hard to feel like you're choosing between your profession or your children.
01:07:28 Alyssa
And then within that, what's the you part of it? Like, what actually do you want?
01:07:34 Rachel
Yeah. Yeah, there's so much external pressure.
01:07:39 Alyssa
So much, so much. And I've heard it all. Like I've had people say when I, the first time I was gonna be away from Beans, it was one like night and two days. Like I was getting on two full days, but one overnight. And someone was like, oh, do you think she'll be okay? Like, do you think that'll be too long for her? Meanwhile, Zach, my husband, when she was six months old, went on a little trip with his dad and was gone for two nights and three days. And she was six months old and Sagey got hand, foot, mouth.
01:08:18 Rachel
Oh I remember that.
01:08:19 Alyssa
Immediately when he left. And there was no comment there. Actually, there was a comment in that it was just like It's so good for Zach to get that break.
01:08:25 Rachel
Yeah. Nobody has ever asked Cody who was gonna be taking care of the kids while he was gone. Or how long he was gonna be gone and whether or not the length of the trip would impact the children in any way. And then of course, if I leave, it's like, well, who's taking care of the kids? And it's like,
01:08:47 Alyssa
Wow, Cody's doing all of that?
01:08:49 Rachel
Yep, he's a dad. He sure is. And like, not only is Cody like fully able to do it, he actually likes taking care of the kids, you know?
01:09:02 Alyssa
Not just capable of doing it, enjoys it. And there, I was just saying to Zach, like there are so many things that I look at Zach in parenthood and I'm like, he's better at that than I am. Like there are things that come more intuitively or naturally to him that don't for me and that I have to work on. And it's not even like, oh yeah, Zach can handle it. It's like, there are things that when I step away are probably smoother because he's better at managing some things or responding to some things or navigating some things than I am.
01:09:37 Rachel
Oh, for sure. My kids are definitely like laughing and playing way more when I'm gone. Cause he just, that's what he does. He plays and he's really good at prioritizing that over tasks that would pull me away.
01:09:50 Alyssa
Yeah, exactly. And I have this like, these things need, these drawers need to be cleaned out and I need to prep for it. It's like Zach's like, no, they don't. And he's right. Like they don't have to.
01:10:02 Rachel
I know. And it's the same. I'm like, I've got to get caught up on laundry. And Cody's like, why? We have, like, the kids have their uniforms for school. What, what's the problem?
01:10:10 Alyssa
Yeah. It's so real.
01:10:12 Rachel
And I'm like, yeah, you're right. It actually doesn't matter right now. It'd be much better for us to hang out as a family.
01:10:17 Alyssa
Correct. Zach's very similar in that. I yearn for more of that.
01:10:23 Rachel
Me too. I really try to. It's hard for me. If I don't have Cody there to be like, yeah, no, don't do that chore. I'm like, all right, guys, I'm just going to really quickly, you know.
01:10:32 Alyssa
Yeah, we actually have an upcoming episode that I just recorded. I'm super stoked to dive in. And it's about the Danish way of parenting. And that kind of stuff comes up, that like productivity piece that we have. So interesting. Well, I hope that folks snag Neha's book, whether you're a working parent or a stay -at -home parent or you want a pause from work or not, there's so much richness in there for everyone who is a parent or wants to become a parent that I've just been recommending it to folks in so many different spaces. So snag that bad boy. She's such a gift to the parenting community.
01:11:18 Alyssa
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