Reclaiming Self-Esteem in Motherhood with Libby Ward: Round Two

0:00:00    Alyssa

You're listening to Voices of Your Village, and today we're bringing back a conversation that resonated with so many of you. In this episode, I'm hanging out with Libby Ward. You might know her as Diary of an Honest Mom. Libby is a digital creator, speaker, and mental health advocate with a deep commitment to changing the motherhood narrative. She's been featured on Good Morning America, The Tamron Hall Show, BBC, and more. Truly a thought leader when it comes to navigating the complex mental health experiences that so many moms face today. What I love so much about Libby is how genuinely she shows up. We hear the word authenticity quite a bit these days, but Libby truly embodies it. She talks openly about the reality struggles and challenges of motherhood while allowing space for all feelings. In this episode, we dive into self -esteem and motherhood, and one of my favorite parts of our chat was exploring the difference between shame and accountability, plus breaking down what guilt can really mean. Follow Libby at Diary of an Honest Mom for honest, relatable content about motherhood and mental health that will leave you feeling seen and supported. All right, folks, let's dive in. 

00:01:16    Alyssa

Hey there, I'm Alyssa Blask Campbell. I'm a mom with a master's degree in early childhood education and co -creator of the Collaborative Emotion Processing Method. I'm here to walk alongside you through the messy, vulnerable parts of being humans raising other humans with deep thoughts and actionable tips. Let's dive in together. 

00:01:58    Alyssa

Hey Libby, I'm so jazzed to get to hang out with you today. How are we doing today? How are we holding up over there? 

00:02:10    Libby

I'm full transparency, a hot mess. Hi, I'm so glad to be here and I'm a disaster until about three minutes ago when we logged on here and I'm so looking forward to having this conversation and showing up as my messy self. 

00:02:25    Alyssa

It's my favorite thing about you, is that: that like the ability to be your messy self and in Tiny Humans Big Emotions like right towards the beginning we wrote, like your mess is welcome here. But I like genuinely believe that, and want that to be practiced more, and was just having a conversation with my best friend the other day about how like I'm not a huge fan of playdate culture of like, we're going to come together and like pretend to be perfect parents for an hour where our kids will all just like be behaved and our house will be clean and we're going to have snacks out and whatever. And I'm so much more interested in the like, hi, I'm a hot mess. Can you drop by with a meal? Like I am going crazy with my kids. Can you please step in? Like that's more of interest to me. 

00:03:14    Libby

Yeah. It's more of interest to me as well. And honestly, in the first year and a bit of motherhood I subscribed to the whole I can only have friends at my house if everything's perfect, and so then I wouldn't have friends at my house because nothing was ever perfect and then I was really lonely and I decided that that's a load of crock. Because one time I went to a new friend's house and her house was a train wreck, and within seconds my nervous system was like I really like this and it made me feel so welcome, and at home, and like she was my people, you know a person who lives in a house that looks like it's lived in, and from that moment on I was like screw this. I am not pretending to be perfect, I'm pretending my house is perfect anymore. Lo and behold, I invited people over and they felt more comfortable, and then like a lot of things were better because nobody had to pretend anymore 

00:04:04    Alyssa

Correct.

00:04:05    Libby

Like it just is better that way when we show up real.

00:04:08    Alyssa

 A hundred percent and I think that like that's a huge part for me of the like like self -esteem part in parenthood is like, what are the expectations and what's the reality? And how does that measure up? And like, I don't know, I've never gone through like days with kids and I'm like, yeah, I never felt annoyed with this kid or like, they're going to do things that are annoying. We're going to be triggered. And like, that's a part of this. And I think the like showing up as our messy selves also includes that of like, oh my gosh, this kid's driving me bonkers right now and I need to tap out from it and being able to say that without the shame, or the judgment, or the blame of like I'm failing, or I'm not good at this. 

00:04:50    Libby

Yeah absolutely and I think it's so interesting that we apply different rules to our relationship with our kids than we do literally any other person and in any other environment. So like the shame and blame is so real, and I have struggled with it so deeply in my life. But when I step back and I look at the logic of the situation, I'm like, if anybody else in my life completely ignored everything I said 10 times in a row, naturally I would be filled with rage. If anybody else in my life asked me to cook them dinner and then threw it on the floor, naturally I would be filled with rage. It doesn't mean that I'm a bad parent because I am filled with rage that my work gets thrown on the floor, it just means that I'm a human being and also that they're a human being, that their brains haven't fully functioned yet, they haven't fully grown, and they haven't fully developed, and yet here we are expecting ourselves to not be reactive and not have any emotions about the lunacy of our lives with them. And in terms of self -esteem, it's like what? You're judging yourself for what? You're holding yourself to this ridiculous expectation for what? With any other human in your life, you would be frustrated if they did the things that your children did. And we are not like, our patience doesn't just up level by a million the moment we like pop out a baby or like, you know, become mothers, it's hard and it's going to be hard and you're going to be impatient sometimes. And so to the title of your book, Tiny Humans, Big Emotions, but also like big humans, big emotions. 

00:06:27    Alyssa

Yeah. That's like the spoiler alert is like people come, people come for the kids and they stay for themselves. I mean, there's five components to the CEP method and one is adult -child interactions. The other four are about us for that exact reason that like, we also get to have feelings. And I think there's a clear distinction to be made between us as adults having feelings and kids feeling responsible for our feelings, right? That like, it's one thing for me to say like, Sage, I'm feeling really overwhelmed right now. We're trying to get in from outside and you are playing in the front seat of the car and I'm trying to pull in the groceries and it's almost nap and whatever. And I'm going to pause and calm my body so that I can help you. Me taking ownership over my own regulation rather than like, and you need to change your behavior and who you are so that I can feel calm. That like that for me is that clear distinction. We write about it in the book, but I think it's bonkers to think and also to imagine that kids don't see that we have big emotions. The like, we are allowed to, and they are going to feel it. And if we don't acknowledge them, then they're like, you don't seem fine. Right. When we're like, no, I'm fine. Like, well, you don't seem fine. 

00:07:41    Libby

And then it leaves them questioning themselves. And so they're naturally going to blame themselves. And I think for me, I had to really come to this. So the way I grew up is I felt like I was responsible for all of my mom's emotions. And I was blamed and shamed and had to change my behavior and became a people pleaser to make her happy. And so then when I became a mom, I was like, I'm not going to do that. And so I tried to stuff it all inside and not share any of those emotions with them. And I realized very quickly that that's what ends up leading to more explosions and leading to more of like the dirty eye, you know, the dirty eyes towards the kids and the yelling and the things like that, because I wasn't expressing them. And I finally got to this place where I had to realize that like emotions are a normal experience for children, for adults, for all of us. And we actually don't need to blame anyone. We don't need to blame and judge ourselves. We don't need to blame and judge our children. We just need to accept that we have emotions and take responsibility for our own. And I had to work really hard at the language I used in talking to my kids about it, because there's a big difference between saying mommy is really overwhelmed I need a few minutes to calm my body down, and you are making me so mad you need to leave me alone right now. And it feels so different in their body. 

00:09:04    Alyssa

Yeah exactly, exactly. When you came into parenthood I think for a lot of humans when they're entering into parenthood they maybe like slay.. you found a job or you found like life stuff like you slay, you're like I'm really freaking good at pickleball and I'm in this pickleball group or whatever. I don't know what pickleball people do, a team, a team of pickleball players, a club, or like, you know, I chose this job and I feel really competent at it and good at it. And I think for a lot of folks, like when you enter into parenthood and kind of like envisioning the wedding, but not the marriage sort of thing, we were like, I picture certain parts of parenthood. When I was teaching preschool. I had a mom, was like my first year of teaching who at drop -off one day, she was like, I am going to slay parenting, like a nine to 15 year old. Like that is my jam. This right here, this is not my jam. And I was like, I love this. I love this like acknowledgement that we don't have to, not every stage has to be like, oh, I'm just, I know exactly what I'm doing right now. And I have all the skills for it. And I don't need any support or any help. Like this is my jam. But I think a lot of us, when we like enter into parenthood, we picture certain things, and we're not picturing like the kids screaming in the car seat for 20 minutes when you're trying to go to an appointment, or them throwing that dinner that you made on the ground. You're like, no, we'll do like baby led weaning and they'll like love it. They'll totally embrace it. It's going to be perfect. And then the reality and the expectations don't align. And I think that's where like our self -esteem piece can take a hit of like, that's where we feel like we're failing. 

00:10:52    Libby

Absolutely. And I know when I became a mom, prior to becoming a mom, I was in control of my life, literally everything from where I lived, to who I spent my time with. If someone was toxic, I didn't have to spend time with them. If someone treated me poorly, if someone was loud and overstimulating, if I didn't like a job, I could leave it. If I didn't like my house, I could move. And so a lot of us, when we become parents, you become parents after you've learned that you can control your life. And if you just plan enough and you just read enough and you just know enough, then you can pretty much control the outcome as much as possible. And then from the moment you become pregnant, you slowly realize that you're not in control of anything, 

00:11:35    Alyssa

Anything. 

00:11:36    Libby

You know, you're not in control of how the pregnancy is going to go, how the birth is going to go, how your postpartum period is going to go. And then you think, well, maybe you'll stop here. No, you literally, this is a human being and they have have their own personality and their own needs and their own emotions and their own experiences of the world. And actually you're not in control. And that is terrifying for so many of us who have always felt like the more we know, and the more we prepare, and the more in control we've been before, that's going to allow us to be even more in control when we have our children. And even if we've done the research and we know the things that doesn't actually mean that you're going to be in control of literally anything. And I think that's where the self -esteem part comes in because we may not realize it. But being in control of so much and being able to plan outcomes and all of that kind of stuff makes us feel good about ourselves. Before I had kids, I worked two jobs and I volunteered like there was no evening when I was sitting at home on the couch like I was busy. I was involved in my own community. People were like, how did you work that many jobs? I'm like, I love it. I love being busy. I love being productive. And it made me feel good about myself to be productive and check the lists off and be someone that people could rely on, and someone who didn't get angry, and didn't like wasn't emotional and then all of a sudden I became a parent and like like oh I have to get used to not being able to get that much done and also guess what I do have emotions and it's hard to hide them when someone's been screaming in my ear for 25 minutes.

00:13:03    Alyssa

A hundred percent and I hope we're seeing a shift in this language now but that the like doing the research and knowing the things and whatever is really to prepare us to to allow this to unfold as it will. That like, there are some tools we can have in our tool belt and we can get to know our nervous system and their nervous system and things like that. But like, I was just thinking of, uh, we went to the fair, uh, about a month or so ago and fast forward a couple hours into the fair where my child had refused all food since he woke up from nap. And after like, we all gathered for dinner for like fair food dinner, and he refused that meal too we were like okay. My husband was like what do we do now and I was like just buckle up because like it's about to hit the fan. Right? Like and that for me is the allowing part of-- I'm not in control at this point, can't make 'em eat, can't make 'em sleep, you can't make 'em poop, and now we're gonna wait this out. And he's gonna get hangry, and he's gonna melt down, and sure enough like half hour after he refused that dinner we're sitting on this like lawn as he's screaming, go away, leave me alone, getting as far away from my husband and I as possible. And as close to like these families, who are like, enjoying fried dough together at picnic tables, as possible, like laying next to them. And my best friend turned to me at that point, and was like, so what's the name of the book? And I was like, yeah, Tiny Humans Big Emotions if you're looking for it, but like, this is it. Like that's it in practice. My goal isn't that he never has hard emotions, that he never melts down, that like I never melt down. It's that we we know it's okay. 

00:14:42    Libby

I'm so glad you brought that up. Cause I think for me, even on my own self -development, self -healing journey, I thought that if I read enough books and I knew enough things and I intellectualized my experience, and understood my experience, and why I am the way I am, enough, that would stop the hard things from happening. Or that would stop me from having really negative or really big emotions. But instead it helps me to understand them more. And it gives me those tools, but it doesn't make my emotions go away. It doesn't make my kids' emotions go away. I can understand everything to a T of how children develop, and what their nervous systems are like, and what our nervous systems are like. But at the end of the day, I'm still going to have an emotional reaction inside to what is happening. They are still going to have emotional reactions. There's no way to limit that. 

00:15:34    Alyssa

Yeah. 

00:15:35    Libby

I think the most important things that we've, that I've learned is the power of being able to apologize as well. There's this piece of okay we need to accept that we all are going to have emotions. There's going to be hard things that happen and just because we feel rage inside, it doesn't mean that we need to express rage in an unhealthy way. And one of the issues that I have with how we talk about "mom rage" on the internet is that number one it's not a condition you have. You don't have mom rage. You just are a mom who gets angry because all humans get angry sometimes. But secondly, we all mean something different. I can say I'm experiencing rage and it can just mean something I internally experience in my body and have to work through. Somebody else could say mom rage, and that could mean literally throwing a dozen ceramic dishes across the room, a foot away from their child's head. Those are very different different expressions of the feeling of rage. And I have been on the receiving end of the plates being thrown. And so that's very different. And so it's important to talk about it in the right ways so that we know what we're talking about. Like, yes, you're allowed to feel rage. No, you should not throw plates at your children. 

00:16:50    Alyssa

Correct. 

00:16:51    Libby

And let's go the middle ground. Maybe you're not throwing plates, but you're screaming in your kid's face, which I have done before. And I've had to realize that even though I'm allowed to have emotions, screaming in my child's face doesn't align with my value system, and it is so important to be able to repair after we express our emotions in an unhealthy way. Because they do just automatically self -blame and self -shame and so it's this important part of the conversation I think sometimes that's missed where we say it's okay to have feelings. It's okay to be angry. It's okay to say it's hard. But also, how you express those feelings is important. And if you express them in an unhealthy way, it's important to repair too. 

00:17:35    Alyssa

100%. And this is the like modeling part as well, that I think we often want self -control from kids, right? Like we want them to show up with certain behavior, we want them to show up with certain language or a certain tone, or pleases and thank yous and whatever. And yeah, you can feel mad, but like you can't hit your sibling or whatever. But then from ourselves, like if we take a beat, first of all, no one acts from a place of self -control all the time. Self -control requires self -regulation, you can't regulate what you're not aware of. When I have like had a long day and my husband comes home from work I'm not like you know what's going to be the most productive for me? To be sarcastic and snippy right now, like that's gonna that's gonna go the best here. But like when we're not from a place of self -control and I'm not regulated, when I'm not aware of like what's happening, I'm gonna be sarcastic and snippy sometimes. And then I'm gonna have to apologize and take accountability at some point and navigate that repair with him. And I think with kids, same thing where we like kind of, we expect certain things from them. We want them to have the self -control. And then when we don't have self -control, I think we can sit and this is where like shame or guilt can come in. For me, guilt is rad. It's one of my favorite emotions because it usually lets me know like, hey, Alyssa, you're outside your value system. Like something isn't in alignment here. And it gives me that opportunity to be like, okay, like who do I need to repair with? Where have I dropped the ball here? And then what does it look like for me moving forward? Like, is this something that's a habit or a pattern and I need to better resource in this area? Or like there's a little toy that my child has that makes this God awful annoying noise that drives me nuts that if it's like a part of my morning routine, as we're trying to get out the door for childcare, I'm not the parent I want to be. It's like adding up in the background so much for me. And so one of those for me was like, as I was seeing like every morning, not the parent I want to be when Thomas the train is in our space, great. Thomas is not a part of our morning now. Like at bedtime, I hide Thomas in the closet, comes out after school. Like that was a way to just like better resource myself in the morning. But I think when it comes to kids, this ability to be able to repair, not only is it crucial for our attachment relationship, but it shows them like, yeah, you don't have to be perfect. You don't have to do things perfectly all the time. You get to drop the ball. And accountability is a part of that, that we hold ourselves accountable in our household. And we acknowledge where we have made mistakes or dropped the ball and what it's going to look like going forward. And I think this is something that like in the, I'm going to put this in quotes, gentle parenting space, I don't love it because it doesn't feel gentle to me. Like doesn't feel like an accurate description of it. But in that space, I think it can feel like, oh yeah, kids just get to scream in your face. They get to throw things. They get to be out of control. And I don't agree. I'm like, no, I don't get to do that. They don't get to do that. And sometimes we're all going to do that, right? Like sometimes we're all going to lose our cool. And here's what it looks like to model that moving forward. But that if we, when we are out of control, don't navigate that repair part, then kids don't see what that looks like and how they can own their mistakes. 

00:20:48    Libby

Right. And I want to talk about this mom guilt piece. 

00:20:52    Alyssa

Yeah. 

00:20:54    Libby

Because again, on social media and short form video, we use it all of the time and we mean something totally different. And I love how you said that it was your favorite emotion because for a lot of people, they're like, mom guilt is the worst. First off, I'm really not a fan of calling anything a "mom feeling" mom rage, mom guilt, mom, whatever. But, we'll just go with it for now. We use that term for absolutely everything. And in my journal, I actually have in my guided journal, I have this section that talks about guilt, where it's like, at the end of the day, I want you to reflect on something that you feel guilty about. And from that thing, you need to choose one of these four options or a few of these options. And what you notice when you do it is a lot of times we're feeling guilty for things we don't need to feel guilty about. So true guilt is when you feel bad about something that you've done wrong, something that's out of alignment with your value system, those sorts of things. And that guilt is like a little siren that's like, hey, something's wrong here, you need to do something different. And so the choices are, you know, apologize and repair, give yourself grace and try again tomorrow, look for tools and resources. Ideally, you're choosing all three, but you should choose one of those. So you're giving yourself grace, but you're doing something different. But then the fourth one is actually this is not guilt. I need to not feel guilty about this. Because so many times oh I feel guilty for going out with my friends, I feel guilty that I missed bedtime, I feel guilty that I work outside the home. I have mom guilt that I ate the last slice of pie. No, no. No you don't. No that's not guilt, it's not guilt, it's society's messaging that mothers should be martyrs and give of themselves 100 % and never have needs and never have wants, and that you should only ever live for your children. So I think it's so important to talk about guilt in that way, because guilt can be incredibly useful, not in just making us delve into a shame spiral and hating ourselves, but in saying, if I've actually done something like out of line with my value system, what can I change? What can I do? But also, if this isn't guilt, let's stop calling it guilt because it's not helping anyone and it erodes our self -esteem. To anything that's remotely negative, we just enter into a shame spiral. It does not help. If you haven't done anything wrong, let's not call it guilt. 

00:23:16    Alyssa

I love this. I love this conversation. I think that it's the deducing, have I done something that really feels outside of my value system? And that's where that like awareness component to dive into what is societal messaging? I actually, at the very beginning of our book, I had said to a friend of mine, I was like, oh, she's such a good mom. And she was like, what does that mean? And I was like, you know what? Thank you. What does that mean? And I ended up outlining these three questions for myself in motherhood of like, what does it mean for me to feel like I'm a good mom? And because I would get into the like comparison, like, oh, I'm not cutting my kids food into shapes or I'm not like, I'm never ever going to be the human who like makes the homemade muffins and they're all like veggie loaded and protein packed and whatever like it's just that is it brings me zero joy is not how I like to show up in the world, and I believe that I'm still a good mom if I don't do those things but when I am scrolling it's real easy for me to get into the like oh I'm like failing at x y and z because I'm not not doing all these things. Last year, actually, I was like, okay, we've never done holiday cards. And I was like, all right, I feel like as a mom, I should be doing this. I should be sending out holiday cards. And so we put them together and I sent out 15 and hated it. And now we just have a box of holiday cards that live in my house. And I'm like, I'm never doing that again. It brings me zero joy. It felt like an additional task that was largely inconvenient. And there was no like net positive from that. Right. And when I, when I outlined those questions, it like helped me get back to what does it look like for me to say like, yeah, I'm a good mom. Like I'm doing enough. And it really helped me unpack the like, what is guilt? And what is the societal messaging part of you should be doing X, Y, and Z-- otherwise your kid's not going to have of a secure attachment with you or they're not gonna whatever like if you travel for work if you would have like all those things that would come up for me that were in that guilt category it helped me separate them out when I had kind of like these guiding questions to go through because otherwise it's like it-- they can feel muddy they can like mix together of like what is the value system alignment, and what is something that somebody else's values?

00:25:47    Libby

 And it all just gets tangled up into this big negative ball that is hard to work through I've always been someone who's like, I don't have time to journal. Like I'm too busy. I am not going to sit down and write things out, but there is something incredible, there's actually research that shows the power of journaling because you're sitting down, or maybe you're not sitting, you're reflecting, you're intentionally looking at these different areas of your life and it helps give you perspective. And that's why I made the journal to like help moms to stop and look and and say are my expectations for my day, for this season of my life, actually realistic. If they're not how can I reprioritize things. What are things I actually have to do, what are things I could or should do, and what are the things I get to do that I could maybe like change my perspective on like being grateful for them as opposed to just being like oh my gosh I have all these things to do today... okay well like do you actually have to do all those things? Because so often we're just looking at what everyone else is doing being like well they're doing that so I should I should write notes in my kids lunches every day. I don't want to. They know I love them. I say I love you every morning, I love you when they get off the bus, and we talk at bedtime, all these things, I don't want to write the stupid notes. And like they are not going to be traumatized that I didn't write the notes and that is not something that I value so I don't need to feel guilty about that. And actually sitting down and writing down like I feel guilty for going for a walk makes you realize how stupid that is, not how stupid you are, how stupid it is that you feel guilty for literally going for a walk. And there's something about seeing it written down that makes you go, maybe I don't need to. And then the more you do it, all of a sudden, the less you start feeling bad about things you don't really need to feel bad about. and then to the accountability piece, I love that part of the guilt section because so often like what you're talking about before we hold our kids accountable right? Like you don't talk to me like that, you don't say things like that, you don't you can't yell at people, all these things, we hold our children accountable for things-- but who's holding us accountable? Often we do things that maybe don't align with our value system and we enter shame, and we enter blame, and we enter judgment, but we don't do anything with that. We just let it eat us alive and makes us feel awful about ourselves and erodes our self -worth and our self -esteem and all the things, but I like that if you're writing down something that maybe you actually should feel guilty for it prompts you to be like what are we gonna do about this. Oh, I'm gonna put Thomas the Tank in the closet instead of just like eating yourself alive, you're like I'm actually gonna do something differently. I'm gonna like take a course or go to therapy or I'm gonna put Thomas in the closet. Like there's things you can do, and so I as we're talking about this I'm like it's almost like this idea of accountability versus shame.

00:28:44    Alyssa

Yeah 

00:28:45    Libby

It's like you can choose to go into self -shame and self -blame and not do anything with it and just feel like a horrible person, or hold yourself accountable and that actually for me it helps me to move through it. Like if I'm feeling guilty about something that that I should feel guilty for, and then I hold myself accountable, somehow the shame and blame has gone much quicker. And I'm like, okay, there's something about it. You move through it. 

00:29:10    Alyssa

It also helps me set boundaries for myself. The accountability part where I'm like, okay, maybe if part of it is I have not taken that five or 10 minute walk, or I am always eating breakfast on the go instead of sitting down and giving myself three minutes to just sit at the table and eat breakfast, like then it's leading to like, I'm losing it as we're trying to get out the door or whatever. And then it helps me set boundaries without shame or blame or judgment of like, well, this helps me show up as the human that I want to be. And this is a boundary that I'm going to set for myself. And that accountability piece is like a part of that for me when I see that it serves a purpose that like, I want this boundary and literally every single boundary I think I've set for myself, it's, it nourishes me. And it also then, by proxy, helps me show up to my husband, or my friends, or my co workers, or whatever, in a different way. So I think that like, that's a huge part of it. Because boundaries, I think, you highlighted, and I dig this that like, there isn't there aren't just like mom emotions. But that I think 

00:30:28    Alyssa

that one of the things that that is interesting is that we do experience different emotions because of the societal messaging, right? That I was just having a conversation with my husband about this. I've been on this book tour, so I'm traveling a bunch, whatever. And he sometimes travels for work. And I was like, how's it feel for you? And he was like, yeah, I mean, I would rather be home. I like being home, but like, sometimes it's kind of nice to just like get away for a couple of days and like watch trashy TV on a TV in a hotel room and whatnot. And I have to like, that's one thing where I'm like, oh my God, am I away too much? Am I traveling too much? What's happening? Am I taking care of, am I, am I momming enough? Right. And he literally doesn't experience that. Like isn't a thought process that goes through his head. And so I think part of the like mom component here when we're looking at hetero relationships specifically is that we do have different societal messaging for moms versus dads that feeds into it.

00:31:31    Libby

We do and, like even in our social circles, like sometimes I don't feel guilty about something and then as soon as everyone in the circle says I feel guilty about that I feel guilty about I feel guilty about that then I go oh maybe I should feel guilty about that. So it's like broader social norms and social expectations but then it's like like our inner circles as well. And it's a little comment that different people say like, oh, I could never, I could never leave my kids and go on a boat tour. And you're going like, but like, what is that supposed to mean? Like, what are you saying? 

00:32:05    Alyssa

But I can. 

00:32:06    Libby

Yeah. And, and I think about like, so my husband is a shift worker. He's a police officer. He works a continental shift, which long story short means he has worked every other weekend of our children's life. So for nine years, we have not had him half of the weekends of our lives. And half is a lot. Half is a lot of weeks. And it's incredible the difference I feel being away for a weekend versus what he feels. 

00:32:29    Alyssa

Sure

00:32:30    Libby

Where like, now that I have this job and this career, I have more speaking engagements, things like that, I might be gone two or three tops weekends a quarter, like not a ton in comparison to the amount that he works. And yet I'm here going like, oh my goodness, I'm missing out on all this stuff with my kids. Are they going to remember me like all these insane things, and I'm like he's literally been gone for half the weekends of their lives, and their relationship is great. Their attachment is great. He is involved with them, he doesn't seem to feel guilty, they have a great relationship, and as a mom it's like but why do I feel different. There is some biological level to it of like even like the hormones that we produce, like after we have the babies, like it really there is something about being a mom-- there is something. But I don't think it's as biological as people say it is. And it just gets all messed up in our heads and it's, and it's hard. And I feel like we experience different emotions, but we also just experience them to a more extreme degree, because the pressure too. It's like, sure, other people, you know, if you go to work, your work is important. Sure. There's other relationships in your life that are important, but like a child parent relationship and like your child's development it is the most important work and so there is not screw it up. You know it's not just like if you screw up your relationship with your boss and you get fired you're just getting other job. Like you know, this is somebody's life is literally in your hands. So there's a bit of pressure there.

00:34:02    Alyssa

Sure. But I think those messages also are-- one of our SEED team members-- her oldest is just about to turn nine, and similarly her partner's in law enforcement and so his schedule's just been all over the, it's not a nine to five. And he just switched to a job in law enforcement literally a month ago that's a nine to five and she was like I didn't realize how much I've just been holding, until that switch happened, and it was like oh. You're home for dinner at night? Like we're all together on weekends? And she was like all these things that are so many people's norms, and she was like, I just had this like huge exhale that I didn't know I'd been holding all of parenthood. So I was thinking of her when you were sharing that. The comments are so real and grating. I was in Panama for work for like five or six days. And it was not long after Sage had turned two. And then I was coming home. And the next day was a work day and a school day. It was like a Thursday. And someone close to my life, in my life, was like, oh, you're going to go to work? Like you get home on Wednesday, you're going to work on Thursday? And I was like, uh, yeah. Every time my husband has ever traveled for work, it's never been questioned that if the next day he gets home is a work day, he's going to go to work. And then all of a sudden I was like, should I feel guilty about that? Like I've been gone. I'll be gone for like five or six days and I'm coming back. We're going to see each other in the evening and like have dinner and do bedtime. And then I was going to bring him to school in the morning. And I went through that, like, should I feel guilty? Like I hadn't, I hadn't felt guilty until the comment. I had to like really sit with that, but I think you're right. It's not just the broader societal messaging, but our like close circles that can trigger these, like, wait, am I supposed to feel guilty about this one? 

00:35:55    Libby

Yeah. And it's the littlest, littlest comments that they just say it in passing and it just just eats at you. Like, what am I doing wrong here? And I had to do a lot of deep work and ask myself, this is what I'm writing about in my book right now is asking myself, what is important to me? What is valuable to me? What is my value system? Because I know when I became a parent, I kind of just looked at everyone else and I was like, what are they doing? What are they doing? What are they doing? What's important to them? And I tried to be the best of all of it. And, you know, not ask myself if I wanted to write those stupid notes in my kid's lunch. I was just like I do what all the other people are doing. And then of course you realize you literally can't. So important step and realizing what are you going to allow yourself to feel guilty about? What are you going to feel bad about? How are you going to spend your time is not looking at what everyone else is doing, but asking yourself like what matters to you? Like what is valuable to me? And so many of us skip over that part and just get busy doing all the things. 

00:37:00    Alyssa

Well, and I think for those of us that didn't grow up in like secure attachment relationship homes, it does feel like we're floundering, especially at the beginning of the work of like, yeah, it wasn't modeled for me of the parent that I necessarily want to be. And so now I'm like in the trenches trying to figure out what does it look like to be the parent that I want to be? How does this play out in 15 years, right? Like also our joke in my household is not like, will Sage be in therapy, but like, what's he going to be in therapy for? Like what I want him to know is like therapy is an option, right? Like that's great. And if you need to process the ways that I'm going to drop the ball, I'm happy to fund your therapy and support you with access to it, that that's okay. Like that it's also okay if we, as we're trying to learn this while we're doing it, aren't perfect at it and that there are things down the road. I also think it's a part of progress, right? That if in 30 years Sage is like, yeah, we've changed nothing and learned nothing about how humans exist in the world and how we show up with each other, et cetera, then I'd be like, what have you been doing for 30 years? I think a part of progress is saying, we've learned some things and we're tweaking some things. And that it's not a reflection on like, oh, I didn't know that 30 years ago. I wrote in the book that like I saw a picture of myself at my my mom's house, in the car seat as a baby. And I was like, oh, wow. Thank goodness we didn't get in a car accident because it's like a bucket with straps. And she was like, I don't even have a car seat. It's not like she, and now Sage is rear facing till he's 18 in this fortress. And it's not like she had access to Sage's car seat and was like, I'm actually going to choose this one. She didn't have access to that. And I think if we can truly say like, yeah, we're doing the best we can with the knowledge and tools that we have right now, that that's really enough. 

00:39:00    Libby

And it has to be enough. Because no human, parent, non -parent, child, no human is ever going to figure it all out. And we are never going to learn enough that we're not going to experience emotions. And we're never going to know enough or be prepared enough that we will tick all the boxes. There's going to be research that comes out in five years that we didn't know now. There's going to be things that we learned later that we didn't know now. We're going to have access to things later, we're going to have maybe therapy that we go through that teaches things to us that we didn't know, and we need to be okay with not being okay sometimes. And I think part of the hard thing right now in this like social media landscape and a self -help self -development perfect parenting landscape is that there's this idea that if you just know enough you're gonna figure it all out and you're not going to traumatize your kids. I call myself a cycle breaker because there are cycles that are toxic and damaging that I am trying to break. I am not someone who is going to break all of the cycles. Now there's going to be some cycles that I break. There's going to be some that I change a bit. And to be honest, there's probably going to be some cycles that I'm not even thinking about that are toxic that I'm starting like that. I'm not even aware of, you know, and so if I can equip my children to say, I am not perfect, I will continue to be accountable. I encourage you to get help from other people, like therapists, to process what I've done. And if you've ever come to me and say you did this, and it hurt me, I promise you that I will see you and that I will say, I am sorry, and that I will be accountable for that, and that I will prioritize your experiences and acknowledge and validate your experiences and still be able to apologize for that. It's like, I feel like so many of us were raised with this generation of parents. We're like, well, I loved you and I did my best. You know what? Like sometimes simply loving someone isn't enough, and we can acknowledge that we've hurt them. And so similar to you, I'm like, sweet. If my kids go to therapy, then I've done my job that they feel comfortable going to therapy. 

00:41:11    Alyssa

Correct. Yeah, exactly. And I think you're right. I think it's the, I think a lot of us don't have parents who were supported with tools for what does it look like when someone turns to you and how do you hold yourself accountable? And so then if we turn and we're like, I'm struggling with anxiety here from this or whatever. And they say the like, well, I did my best and yada, yada. That was just the times. For me, it's just that lack of skill, and ability to say like, oh man, I feel uncomfortable with what's happening right now. I'm having an uncomfortable emotion and I can regulate that and hold myself accountable and also give myself the grace that my child doesn't have to give me. It's not my child's job to give me that grace. It's my job to give myself the grace of like, yeah, you used all the tools you had, 'Lyss, and like all the resources that were available and your kid, it's not their job to be like, what were all the resources that were available? Can you tell me all of them so that I can analyze if you did the right job with the tools you had? Like that's not a kid's job to figure out. And I just feel like a lot of like this idea of like the self -awareness and accountability piece, and what's our job, and what's their job, is pretty new for our generation. And I'm jazzed about it. I'm jazzed about like, what does this mean down the road when our kids do come and say like, Hey, here are the ways you dropped the ball. Here are things that hurt me that we can say like, Oh man, totally. I'm so sorry that that's how that played out. That that was your experience of that, and be able to be present to them and hold space for that. I'm jazzed about that. 

00:42:54    Libby

Yeah. And how much healthier relationships will be with that. Right. Cause I think often, you know, in our parent relationships, if we're like looking to the older generation, because there isn't that accountability, it breaks the relationship down even more. And so they might be thinking, well, I don't, they're not even consciously thinking of it. It's like this inability to be accountable and apologize. Maybe they're thinking, well, if I admit that I did this, or I admit that I hurt them, they're not going to want to be in a relationship with me anymore. But actually so many of us as children desperately, we want that relationship. We want to be connected. We just want to feel seen. And I also am so excited about this new generation of parents who can be accountable, because I think it's going to not only impact like our well -being and our children's development, but our relationship with our kids when they're grownups, say like, yeah, I screwed up and that hurt you. And that must have been hard for you. That accountability versus shame of like, if I can then be accountable and apologize, then maybe the shame that I carry around every day will be less. 

00:44:06    Alyssa

Yeah. Totally. And I'm super jazzed for folks to snag your journal, because I think it's a huge part of this, is like, if our kids are nervous about coming to us and saying those things, because they're nervous that we'll feel shame around them, then they won't come, right? And so when we can do that work to be able to show up and show accountability over shame and live those values out, then it can open up that avenue for them to be able to come and say those things to us without fear of us then living in shame or expressing shame. Like, oh my God, I'm the worst, blah, blah, blah. Yeah, I dropped the ball so much, that we can make it about us, if we don't do that work. And so I'm super jazzed for folks to have access to tools. I know your book's a long time coming, but I'm excited for that. I think it'll help people dive even deeper into this. But for folks to be able to snag your guided journal to start doing some of this, like the the reflection piece and parsing out the accountability versus shame. Can you tell people where they can find it? 

00:45:12    Libby

Yeah, they can find it on Amazon. So it's called the Honest Mom Journal, the struggling mom's guide to struggling less. And it's available on Amazon, UK, US and Canada right now. 

00:45:25    Alyssa

Awesome. Yeah, thank you. 

00:45:27    Libby

And like your book is going to change so many people's lives and like generationally change lives and I am just so so excited for you, and for this book its probably gonna change the world 

00:45:40    Alyssa

Thanks. It changed how I got to show up in the world and I'm stoked to get to share it with others now. Libby, you're a gem, you're a gem in the social media space, especially where yeah there's so much scrolling and comparison and perfection. Where can people find you follow you learn more about you?

00:45:59    Libby

 Yeah, you can find me at diary of an honest mom on all the platforms, tiktok, instagram, facebook, that's my website find me there, come say hi I will be probably dancing silly or crying on the internet so may the odds be ever in your favor in how you find me.

00:46:19    Alyssa

I love it thank you so much for hanging out.

00:46:00    Libby

Thanks have a good one.

00:46:01    Alyssa

Stay tuned after this note from our sponsors. Rach and I will be right back with the breakdown. 

00:46:05    

[Music]

00:46:12    Rachel

So, I kind of forgot about a big thing that Nora has going on this weekend until, like, this morning. There's a music clinic at her school, so it's like a music intensive, and I registered her for it like months ago because there was like an early bird discount, and then I opened an email today and it was like, here's the schedule, and the schedule's bonkers, and also, like, here's the dress code, and I have to, like, buy clothes. And also, we're having like a tiny little shindig for Abel this weekend. And - 

00:46:42    Alyssa

Oh yeah, oh my gosh, his birthday. 

00:46:44    Rachel

I know. And the theme that he wants, like nothing comes like pre -made with that theme. Obviously, of course, like why would it be easy? So I was just like, wow, I have so many tasks that need to be dealt with. And I'm like going on his field trip on Thursday, which his teacher texted me today and was like, you still haven't paid for that. And I was like, yeah, things are just falling by the wayside right now. The organization level is low. 

00:47:13    Alyssa

Yeah, girl, I feel you. I feel you. I haven't felt this whelmed, I think, since like the launch of Tiny Humans. And right now, Yeah. Everything feels nuts. I mean, I'm traveling so much. So much. It's like an added mental load, right? Not just the home stuff, but also work. If I'm on the road, if I'm presenting, I'm not in my inbox, I'm not working on projects, I'm not writing things, I'm not podcasting, and that stuff adds up. And then have found myself being like, okay, what balls can I let drop?  And simultaneously will jump ahead, right? I'm like, let me try and solve something down the road because everything right now feels nuts. Then I'm like, you know what? I'm gonna, we're gonna need a new nanny scenario when Gabby leaves. And we just found out when she's leaving. And it's still months from now. But I was like, let me solve that. Let me like figure out who our next person. I'm not going to be able to find somebody right now for then, realistically. 

00:48:33    Rachel

Mm -mm. 

00:48:34    Alyssa

But it feels like something I can do in a world where I look at my to -do list and everything feels so whelming right now that I'm like, I don't know where to start. 

00:48:46    Rachel

Yeah, you get like the overwhelmed paralysis where it's like you feel like you can't do anything because there's so many things to do. 

00:48:54    Alyssa

Yeah, legit. And I also, I forgot I experienced this with our first book, Tiny Humans. We just sent out the like unedited basically like early reader copies to some of our early readers to get like their feedback and their thoughts on it and all that jazz. And it's the first time anyone outside of like Harper Collins is reading the book. And I hit send on everything and then had a full vulnerability hangover and forgot about that from Tiny Humans. But last night, Zach was like, are you mad at me? Did something happen? And I was like, oh, no, I'm just grumpy.  And he was like, oh, perfect. I was like, what? He's like, I just, I really thought you were mad at me. You just being grumpy and it's not about me is great news for me. But yeah, and then as I sat with it, I was like, oh, I think it's the vulnerability hangover. 

00:49:53    Rachel

Yeah. I mean, it's scary, like putting it out into the world and. 

00:49:57    Alyssa

It's so scary. 

00:49:59    Rachel

Yeah. 

00:50:02    Alyssa

And thoughts are coming back and they're so kind. Like, Eli Harwood's response today, I was like crying. It's just, she was like, here's like a public facing blurb to share about this, but also just went on to like rave about the book even behind the scenes just to us.  And I'm like, okay. Whoooooo. But it's tough. Its in the world.  It's super scary. 

00:50:32    Rachel

Yeah, it's also, like, I'm even feeling it as we're, like, going through the final round of edits, where, like, we're getting really close to the point where it's, like, there's not going to be any more edits. Like, it's going to be, like, that's it. And yeah, I was talking to Cody about that, as, like, the relief of it being done, I'm sure, is going to be real. But also, I'm feeling, like, stressed about, like, once that, once the edits are done, and, like, this is the last round, and there's, like, that's the book. Yeah. 

00:51:00    Alyssa

Yeah, it's so real. Yes, I think I'm just like feeling all the feels and I have, oh my gosh, I have a fun story to tell you. 

00:51:11    Rachel

Okay. 

00:51:12    Alyssa

We're going down to North Carolina. My brother lives in the Wilmington area and they have like a beach house that they Airbnb. And my parents, one of my older brothers, my niece, they're are all driving down from upstate New York, and we are driving down from Vermont, the four of us, and going for like a week in April. And I just started to fully dread this drive. It's 16 hours and I was like, what do we do? Do we drive straight through the night? That doesn't really get us all the way there. Do we drive eight hours and stay somewhere and have another eight the next day? And like Mila is 15 months old and sitting in a car for 16 hours. All she wants to do is climb and be all over things and moving her body. And 

00:52:05    Rachel

It's going to be torture for her.

00:52:07    Alyssa

Torture. And so I just kind of panicked, started looking at flights and I was like, but I want our van there and all of our stuff. And so I was looking at flights for just me and Sage and Mila. It must be some sort of glitch in a system, but found flights and the first -class tickets were the cheapest option and very affordable, and like $150 cheaper than main cabin. I was like, Yeah. But I snagged that bad boy.  And so Sage and Mila and I are flying first -class. Zach was like, I have never flown first -class. I was like, what is this? So the three of us are going first class, down and back, and we'll fly into Raleigh and Zach will pick us up and we mapped out he'll leave Thursday night, head down, stay in a hotel, work from the area Friday, and then just pick us up. And I just felt this sense of relief once we found those flights and just booked it and made it happen. And I was like oh I didn't realize how  stressed I was about this drive down, because let's get real, the person who will end up entertaining the 15 -month -old the most would be me. 

00:53:25    Rachel

Yeah. 

00:53:27    Alyssa

And I just don't feel like I have the capacity for 16 hours of car entertainment. And that's without stops and traffic and whatever. 

00:53:35    Rachel

Yeah, it would be longer than that, no doubt. That's amazing. 

00:53:39    Alyssa

So exciting. 

00:53:41    Rachel

Yeah. Cody's brother and sister -in -law, that's how they travel. They will have Andy drive to Maine from DC and Kara will fly with the kids. 

00:53:51    Alyssa

Yeah. Yeah. I'm into this. And Zach's like, his dream is to be solo in a car. 

00:53:57    Rachel

Its going to be quiet in a car. 

00:53:58    Alyssa

He's like I can listen to music or a podcast or an audiobook by myself, whereas I would be like, okay, I need to call people the whole trip. I need that connection. And Zach's like, oh my gosh, nobody's talking to me. 

00:54:10    Rachel

Yeah. I know I would hate driving alone for that long. 

00:54:14    Alyssa

Yeah. 

00:54:14    Rachel

And Zach's loving it. 

00:54:16    Alyssa

Yeah, we're going to drive first class. What is this? 

00:54:19    Rachel

I've never flown first class. Like, I feel like that's going to be so fun. Also, just like the perspective of parenthood or like the easy thing for you is to fly with two kids by yourself. You know what I mean, though, because that is so real. Because like, that's also not going to be like a walk in the park. But compared to 16 hours with a car with Beans who wants to move and hang and groove. It'll be way, way better. 

00:54:45    Alyssa

So much better. Yeah. And it's like broken up. It's two hour and a half flights with a 45 minute layover. I feel incredible. 

00:54:52    Rachel

Yeah, that is ideal.

00:54:53    Alyssa

 I'm super stoked. Super stoked.  I have only flown first class either by like, so when I did the book tour and I was aggressively pregnant, I was like between 32 and 36 weeks pregnant for that whole tour. People kept bumping me up to first class, which was, first of all, the right move, but second of all, so rad. I was like, thank you, Mila, for getting us on the first class. And then, yeah, I do some private work that we don't really talk about at Seed for private clients where they fly me to stay with them or to be in a hotel near them or something and then I observe their family unit and provide workshops and teaching specific to their kids and stuff. And often those clients will fly me first class, which is wild. 

00:55:48    Rachel

It really is. 

00:55:50    Alyssa

But I've never bought my own first -class ticket. Let me tell you. Yeah, I don't know. Thank you glitch in the system 

00:55:57    Rachel

Yeah I was going to say unless I find a glitch in the system I'll be flying business class do they call it economy?

00:56:03    Alyssa

Economy. Mm -hmm. 

00:56:05    Rachel

Yeah, the old economy status 

00:56:10    Alyssa

Even on the way home from California, I upgraded Kylie and I from economy to economy plus, which was like a $40 upgrade. But we got more leg room and we had a red eye. And I was like, I'm going to do this. And it felt like super bougie to even just do that upgrade for 40 bucks. 

00:56:28    Rachel

Yeah. 

00:56:29    Alyssa

Yeah. Oh, man. Perspective. Who are we chatting about today? 

00:56:36    Rachel

OK so this is the rebroad of Libby, Diary of an Honest Mom. 

00:56:38    Alyssa

Yeah, yeah, yeah. I love Libby. And Libby's friends with Tara Clark, Modern Mom Problems, who I just hung out with in California. We were just chatting about Libby. And yeah, just thinking about her lately. 

00:56:53    Rachel

Yeah, I love her. And I was listening to this episode today, actually, because I listened to it when it first came out, but I was listening to it again today. And something that I think is so helpful was like the conversation you guys were having about allowing ourselves as moms to like feel frustrated or feel overwhelmed or whatever, but like not using the term mom rage as like this umbrella term that just means we can be really unkind to our kids and making that distinction and I think it's so good for kids to see too that like we do have feelings and we do get frustrated and that they don't have to fix it for us and they are not responsible for suppressing their own feelings or needs in order to keep us happy. But I think that does get misconstrued a lot when we talk about like, you don't have to be perfect. You're allowed to feel things. Yeah, of course you are. And if we wanna raise kind and respectful kids, we have to treat them with kindness and respect. 

00:58:00    Alyssa

A hundred percent. And something we talk about with Sage a lot is that you're allowed to feel all things and our expectation in our household is kindness. And even if you're mad, our expectation is kindness, and sometimes that means saying nothing. Sometimes that means taking space. Sometimes that means yelling really loudly and not yelling something mean, just yelling, right? Like the mini stones to milestones. And I love that takeaway, Rach, because I think you're right that there's this idea that you just get to experience frustration and then express it however you want. And that's not what we want to teach kids. We want to teach them that you can feel all these things. And they're what we consider pro -social ways to express that in our family, we talk about that from a place of kindness and respect, that I am going to feel hard things. Daddy's going to feel hard things, Mila, Sagey. And our expectation is that we will be kind to each other, even when we're feeling hard things and I will say I was just telling this to Sage the other day that I've learned about myself that I get really overwhelmed right before we leave for a trip and that if I talk to people, especially Daddy, when we're about to leave for a trip, it's hard for me to say kind things to Daddy at that time. And so what I've learned is that the kindest thing I can do for dad is to say as little as possible. And that sometimes kindness is silence. 

00:59:45    Rachel

Yeah. Also, that's for me, too. Sometimes I will say, the kids will get mad if I'm not answering on their timeline. And I will say, right now, I don't have anything kind to say in this conversation, so I'm going to wait. But then there are other times when I don't wait, and I do lose my cool, and I think that's also going to happen, and that's where repair comes in, 

01:00:09    Speaker

and being willing to apologize and be vulnerable. My like I think about my upbringing and I feel like my parents did the best that they could with the information that they had but vulnerability or like an adult apologizing to a child wasn't really a thing. 

01:00:27    Alyssa

No. 

01:00:29    Rachel

And so I think a lot of us grew up that way. And so it can feel really hard. And sometimes I still will feel this like internal resistance to it where I'm like, no, I'm not gonna apologize to you. You know? And then I'm like, whoa, hang on, back up here a second. I treated my child in a way that is not in alignment with my values. And yes, I am going to apologize. And also I want them to witness that so that they have that skill set of like, yeah, when you mess up and you treat somebody unkindly, like here's how you can make it right with them. 

01:01:04    Alyssa

Yes, exactly and that like you you get to make mistakes. And I think the part of admitting our mistakes and holding ourselves accountable, there's a relinquish of power and control in doing that. And so many of us grew up in cultures where control was just like relished and like there was gonna be no relinquish of that control or that power. That, was seen as the ultimate, that I'm the adult, I'm in control, I have the power. And any threat to that was not welcomed. And I see that in that shift, because the same thing happens for me where I'm like, I don't need to apologize for this. And really when I get down and dirty with that its that I don't-- I'm nervous that it will jeopardize my standing as like the one in control, which is all inherited. 

01:02:10    Rachel

And also like, we are in control of so much in their lives, right? Like there's no question, there's no question. And they know that too, cause they have to live with that, right? Like they have to live with, Abel will sometimes say to me, if he's really frustrated, especially if I've embarrassed him by accident, he'll say, ughh why do you have to be the boss of me? And I've never told him that I'm the boss of him, but like, that's his perception of the reality that I make a lot of decisions in his life.

01:02:39    Alyssa

You are the boss of him. 

01:02:41    Rachel

I am I am your parent, right? 

01:02:43    Alyssa

Yeah, 

01:02:44    Rachel

And so I think like that fear is not founded in reality being vulnerable and apologizing to children when we do something unkind to them is not going to change the fact that we're still the leader in our families, we still get to control so much of what happens but I definitely have like social programming from childhood that can make that hard. 

01:03:10    Alyssa

I mean, same. Same. And I, I have such respect, Libby has really openly shared about like her journey and from her childhood to now in motherhood and how freaking challenging it is to show up in a way that wasn't modeled for us and that you're learning how to show up in a new way while you're doing it and that thats gonna come with a lot of jazz. I think what's so freeing... for me in that because same there's a lot of ways that I'm aiming to show up that are not what I was raised with and what feels really freeing to me and that is knowing that just even talking to my kids about like, oh, yeah when I was growing up this is what I learned and I'm trying to learn something different like I know that I didn't get to have a person that I could turn to who I could be honest with and because I was afraid I was going to be in trouble. And I want you to know that you can tell me anything that you want to or that you need to and you're not going to be in trouble. And I'm trying to learn how to do that, how to be that person for you. And just like that honesty of, I don't have all the answers and I'm trying to learn this and figure it out. And this is my goal. This is what I want for us. 

01:04:46    Rachel

Yeah, I think we're up against and you guys touched on this in the episode, you know we're up against our family of origin stuff, right, but we're also up against so much societal pressure about like what does it mean to be a mom? What does it mean to be a good mom? And like having the awareness to look at like what are my-- what's really important to me as a parent like what are my real goals as a parent and how are these external pressures-- I find that the external pressures pull me away from my actual goals and values as a parent and things that maybe at one point I thought should be really important to me really don't matter in my relationship with my children. 

01:05:35    Alyssa

A hundred percent. And I think like for me a shift that's been so key the mantra of everything's a season. And so when I'm like in the thick of it and I'm like, oh my gosh, I feel like I'm messing these things up or dropping the ball on these things or those, remembering like, this is a season and there are balls I might drop in this season that I haven't dropped in another one or that I can pick back up in another one. And there are gonna be other balls I'm gonna drop in another season, right? It is all just like kind of this ebb and flow. I was thinking the other day, you know, I was so nervous coming back into travel season that I hadn't really I had not I had not traveled without Beans until February of this year. So for her first 14 months of life, she traveled with me anywhere I went. And I didn't experience any guilt about traveling for work because she was with me. And then going back into travel season in February, where I was gonna not be taking her on all my trips, I went into it starting off with a lot of guilt. And I'm now at a place where, I'm very happy to share, I'm not living with guilt around traveling. One of the shifts for me there has just been seeing it play out of like, once I did my first trip and she was fine. And I was like, OK, we're OK here. And then more and more like it's honestly been the hardest on me of anybody, I think.  Maybe Zach, who's really holding down the fort here. But I feel tired and like, oh, I want a break from traveling. But the kids have been fine and Sagey said something to me right before my last trip where he I was like, all right, buddy I'm gonna go on a trip and it was gonna be my longest one. I was gonna be gone for four days and I was like, I have another trip. I'm gonna be leaving on this day. I'm come back on this day and I was like, do you have any questions like kind of about my travel whatever and he said, are you going to help people learn what to do with their feelings? And I was like, yes, I am going to help people learn what to do with their feelings. And he just leaned in and he kissed me and he said, I'll send you a video when you're gone. And it was just one of those for me where I was like, he's starting to get it. Right. He knows he's four years old now. And like he knows what I do for work in some capacity. And he's going to, I'm not doing this to him, I'm doing this for him, right? And I'm not doing this to her, I'm doing this for her. And that shift for me has been really empowering. 

01:08:35    Rachel

Yeah, and I think like, What you said about you've really kind of needed to see it play out in order to like have some peace about it I think that that happens so much in parenthood, especially when we're asking our kids to adjust to new routines or things are changing. Sometimes we need to just see it play out. We just need to do it and witness our kids being okay, and then we can start to feel like okay. Yeah, this is this is not I'm not harming them. 

01:09:09    Alyssa

Yeah, yeah, the like I'm not doing it to them. I'm doing it for them was I got to hear at the last conference I was at the closing keynote is a Congresswoman, I believe in California who's running for governor. I don't think I made that up. I think those are the correct things. And she was incredible loved her. It was like do I just move to California now because she uh like just hilarious and she's a single mom and her work's busy you know her life is a life of service and I, and she said that, that like she has, people asked a lot like about her and working and doing this and her schedule and the kids and whatever. And she said, I realized I'm not doing this to them, I'm doing it for them. And that has been my mantra here. And so full credit to, I wish I could remember her name. I think it's Katie. Whoooooo! And yeah, but I was like, I needed that message. And I do believe that it's true, that my work is service work, it's hard work. And it's ultimately for my kids to hopefully live in a more emotionally intelligent world. 

01:10:40    Rachel

Yeah. Yeah, I think it's so fun when kids are old enough to like understand...  I'm kind of chuckling to myself because, um, I think it was like a year ago or maybe two years ago and Nora was asking, Cody had to do something for work and Nora was irritated because it was going to like impacting plans that we had made and you know, she's like, why does dad have to work? So I explained to her like why dad works. what his work allows us to do in our lives, like have a house and eat and have clothes and whatever else. And so she was still like miffed, but so a couple months later, it was his birthday. And on his birthday, she wrote him this note, which we still have on the fridge. And it was like, happy birthday, dad. Thanks for taking care of us. Don't ever retire. 

01:11:31    Alyssa

That's so good. 

01:11:33    Rachel

But like, I think sometimes for kids, when we're like, okay, well, I have to go to work. I have to do work. They're like, why? 

01:11:40    Alyssa

Yeah, 

01:11:40    Rachel

They don't make they don't have the like, concept of like, it costs money to live. 

01:11:45    Alyssa

Correct. Correct. Yeah. 

01:11:48    Rachel

Oh, man. Yeah, 

01:11:50    Alyssa

And boy, does it. More and more every day. 

01:11:54    Rachel

I still haven't seen the egg prices go down. 

01:11:58    Alyssa

I know, I actually was like, Zach, do we get chickens? He was like, Alyssa, you can't keep a plant alive. You're not getting chickens. 

01:12:04    Rachel

No, do not get chickens. They're dirty and don't get them. 

01:12:08    Alyssa

You got chickens. 

01:12:09    Rachel

Yeah, we don't have them anymore. 

01:12:11    Alyssa

I know, why? 

01:12:13    Rachel

Uh because I didn't want to have a dog with a high prey drive and birds at the same time. 

01:12:18    Alyssa

Sure. 

01:12:20    Rachel

Also, it's really hard to protect them for predators here because we're in a field. So like coyotes, fox, hawks, like one time we had a coyote come and they didn't come to our chickens. They went to the neighbor's chickens. And I think it was a female that must have been nursing pups because she killed like 10. 

01:12:37    Alyssa

Wow. 

01:12:38    Rachel

In like a five minute span, she would like kill it, run away back to her den, I'm guessing, come back. It was nuts. 

01:12:45    Alyssa

Whoa, nature's crazy. 

01:12:46    Rachel

It's so crazy, but she, it became like a habit. She kept coming. So after we thought that she was done nursing her pups, we had to take care of it. So don't get chickens. All of that to say. 

01:12:59    Alyssa

Okay, I don't get chickens. I'll just pay egg prices.  

01:12:59    Rachel

And you already have skunk issues. Like don't. Oh man. 

01:13:02    Alyssa

I wouldn't get chickens here. I rent this house. I don't think I'm allowed to get chickens. I'm just saying wherever I go to next. 

01:13:10    Rachel

Don't do it. Just pay $6 .99 for eggs. I promise. 

01:13:16    Alyssa

That's what I'm doing. 

01:13:17    Rachel

Yeah, it's better than getting chickens. I know. Okay, no, but in all seriousness, I bought like fake eggs from Target that were supposed to work for like egg dyeing. They totally didn't. And now I'm like, am I gonna pay $7 for... 

01:13:36    Alyssa

How much do we care about your making memories over here, kids? 

01:13:40    Rachel

I know, and like, they're like attached to the tradition. 

01:13:43    Alyssa

Egg dying process, yeah. 

01:13:44    Rachel

Yes. 

01:13:46    Alyssa

Yeah. 

01:13:47    Rachel

And it's not like I can't spend $7 on it, but it just like pains me a little bit. 

01:13:51    Alyssa

So painful to be like, I'm gonna spend $7 and not eat them. 

01:13:54    Rachel

We're not eating them. That's the thing. 

01:13:57    Alyssa

Oh, I feel you. Yeah, it's painful. 

01:13:59    Rachel

That's the thing. 

01:14:00    Alyssa

It is painful. I am gonna do it, but it will be painful when I do it. 

01:14:08    Rachel

I'm gonna have to. They freaking love it. 

01:14:10    Alyssa

Also, real quick, one thing I keep doing is trying to solve for like, where are we going to live next? And because in this world where everything feels nuts, I'm like, well, I have to figure that out.  And Zach literally last night was like It's not a problem we have to solve right now. We are renting. The kids both have childcare for next year, the whole school year. It's not a problem we have to solve right now. There's nothing to solve for. 

01:14:40    Rachel

Your brain really wants to feel some amount of control over something. 

01:14:44    Alyssa

Yeah, and just like settled in some manner. 

01:14:46    Rachel

Yeah.

01:14:48    Alyssa

Super fun living in this brain, baby. 

01:14:51    Rachel

We're in limbo right now with this like land situation. And Abel is - 

01:14:58    Alyssa

Okay, so your in -laws bought a large chunk of land. 

01:15:01    Rachel

Well, they're working on it. So there were like issues with like the appraisal and whatever else, but they're working on it. And we can't say what town it's in on here. 

01:15:12    Alyssa

Yeah, yeah, that's fine. 

01:15:15    Rachel

So, but like, you know, now we're starting to like have discussions with the kids cause it is looking like this is gonna happen. And we Cody and I are like figuring out financing to like buy some of it from them, whatever. So we're having all these conversations with the kids. 

01:15:29    Alyssa

And then you would build on that land. 

01:15:31    Rachel

Yeah. 

01:15:32    Alyssa

And sell your house. 

01:15:33    Rachel

No, we're not selling anything. Yeah. 

01:15:35    Alyssa

Okay. 

01:15:37    Rachel

And we do a long term rental and we'd actually do a long term rental in the Airbnb too, because like once we move, I don't want to be responsible. 

01:15:47    Alyssa

Yeah, logistically, yeah. 

01:15:48    Rachel

But anyway, so Abel is like every single day, he's like, I never want to move, I never want to leave this house. Like he's already having all these like, and I don't have a good answer for him because the timeline is so like, who the heck knows, you know, when are we moving? And I'm like, not soon, but I don't know. And he hates that. And he's like, are you going to pack all my stuff? Like what's going to happen here? Yes. I'm not leaving your toys and your clothes in this house. 

01:16:19    Alyssa

So funny.

01:16:20    Rachel

 But the uncertainty is so uncomfortable. It's so uncomfortable. 

01:16:25    Alyssa

Its so hard. I hate it. I hate it. And Sage is a human who I mean, he's four, he'll turn five in a year, which means kindergarten will be next. He won't be able to be in childcare anymore. So there's already gonna be like changes and transitions and whatever. And I just wanna solve for everything right now and be like, let me pre -teach for all of it. Let's be done with it, da -yada -yada. And it's actually, he's switching childcares. I know, but he's switching childcares this year. The place that he goes now didn't have a spot for Beans. And I absolutely adore the childcare program they both got into, and I'm very excited about it for him, but it just means another transition in the fall. 

01:17:04    Rachel

Yeah. 

01:17:05    Alyssa

Ugh. 

01:17:06    Rachel

Yeah, it sucks. I hate, I hate knowing that my kid is going to experience a transition that's going to be stressful and hard at first. Like I dread. 

01:17:15    Alyssa

Me too. 

01:17:16    Rachel

I dread. 

01:17:17    Alyssa

And then I just want to like share about it, talk through it, be done with it, whatever. And I know that for him, it'll be best if I wait a little while and share when it's closer to it. And I'll probably share about a month out for him so that he, cause he likes a longer lead time, but. 

01:17:35    Rachel

Not too long. 

01:17:36    Alyssa

Correct. Where he's like, is it now? And yeah, so now I just have to like sit with this information and not to pre -teach and support that and that feels hard. 

01:17:49    Rachel

It's super hard. Yeah 

01:17:53    Alyssa

Yay parenthood 

01:17:59    Rachel

There's always something, you know, there's always something to be always something 

01:18:04    Alyssa

And I just want to take a nap. 

01:18:07    Rachel

Yeah. Is Beans sleeping or? 

01:18:16    Alyssa

Okay, so... 

01:18:17    Rachel

Also, I have to go get my kids soon, but I want to hear this. 

01:18:19    Alyssa

Yeah, she has slept through the night. 

01:18:22    Rachel

Okay. 

01:18:23    Alyssa

Not consistently, but she has slept through the night. Last night, actually two nights ago, she woke up at 4:30, after like going down at like eight. Woke up at 4:30, Zach went in, finally at like five, I went in. She wasn't like crying the whole time, she just would not be transferred back. And so at five, I went in and nursed her and she went right back down after nursing. And then at eight o 'clock, we all woke up. And Sage had gotten up and taken care of himself at like seven -ish. And yeah, Beans woke up at eight and that woke Zach and I up. And we were like, whoa, we have not slept till eight o 'clock in so long. So that was pretty cool. And then last night, yes sir, she got a vaccine. And then last night she woke up twice, between like 12:30 and two, and Zach went in both times, and she just like took water and went back to sleep, and then woke up at seven for the day. 

01:19:23    Rachel

That's pretty good. 

01:19:23    Alyssa

So she didn't nurse it all overnight. Yeah. 

01:19:26    Rachel

Moving in a good direction. 

01:19:28    Alyssa

Every time we think so, it's a little twist, but we'll count those wins where we get them. We'll count those wins. 

01:19:33    Rachel

That's all you can do. 

01:19:36    Alyssa

Oh, I love you. 

01:19:37    Rachel

Love you. 

01:19:39    Alyssa

Thanks for tuning in to Voices of Your Village. Check out the transcript at voicesofyourvillage.com. Did you know that we have a special community over on Instagram hanging out every day with more free content? Come join us at @seed.and.sew S -E -W. Take a screenshot of you tuning in, share it on the ‘Gram and tag @seed.and.sew to let me know your key takeaway. If you're digging this podcast, make sure to subscribe so you don't miss an episode. We love collaborating with you to raise emotionally intelligent humans.

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