Why Kids Swear (and How to Handle It Without Shame) with Rachel and Alyssa
Disclaimer: This transcript was generated with the help of AI and may contain minor errors or inconsistencies. Please refer to the audio for the most accurate representation of the conversation.
[00:00:00] Alyssa: You're listening to Voices of Your Village, and in this episode I got to hang out with Rach and chat about why kids swear and how to handle it without shame. I am obsessed with this topic because there's so much nuance to it. I had seen a post on social media recently, and it was so black and white about it.
[00:00:26] As with a lot of things on social media, I was like, oh, I wanna take this and have like an hour conversation about it because I wanna dive into the nuance of what did you grow up experiencing? What's your culture around this and what are you afraid of? I'm not a human that you like meet. And I'm like, oh my gosh, let's talk about the weather.
[00:00:44] I'm a human that you meet. And I'm like, let's talk about your deepest fears. Uh, and so that is what we got to kinda dive into here. As well as how to respond to our kids, how to raise children who are gonna have the social skills to thrive and know what it looks like to be out in the world, communicating with others, not knowing what their cultural context is gonna be around different verbiage.
[00:01:07] I can't wait to hear your follow-up questions, your takeaways, all that jazz. Head on over to seed dot and so on Instagram, and let's keep the conversation going. All right folks, let's dive in.
[00:01:23] Hey there. I'm Alyssa Blask Campbell. I'm a mom with a master's degree in early childhood education and co-creator of the Collaborative Emotion Processing Method. I'm here to walk alongside you through the messy, vulnerable parts of being humans, raising other humans with deep thoughts and actionable tips.
[00:01:40] Let's dive in together.
[00:01:45] Rachel: I don't know why it's mad at me this morning.
[00:01:48] Alyssa: What?
[00:01:48] Kylie: We should be silent during this. Correct? You have to prepare me for,
[00:01:49] Alyssa: I just said we are doing a podcast. Did you hear Ky? Should I be silent during this?
[00:01:58] Rachel: Um, yeah, that'd be helpful.
[00:02:01] Alyssa: She goes, let me make all the noise I need to make real quick.
[00:02:09] Rachel: Oh man. Okay.
[00:02:10] Alyssa: When it comes to like swearing. I, I, one of the phrases we, there was no swearing in my household. In fact, my mom says she's never even thought the F word, which I feel like just by saying that sentence, you're thinking about it. And I have a distinct memory of her saying, damn one time. And all of us just like froze.
[00:02:35] Mm-hmm. My dad swears a little bit, but not a lot. And it just like wasn't. A part of our home culture, but all of us as kids do.
[00:02:46] Rachel: So it wasn't part of our home culture at all. Um, like I don't, we weren't even really supposed to say like crap.
[00:02:55] Alyssa: Mm-hmm. And you weren't allowed to hate, you were only allowed to hate cancer.
[00:02:58] And Hitler in our Oh yeah. Weren't allowed
[00:02:59] Rachel: to use the word hate either. Um, my sister doesn't really swear, but John and I do, and I swear in front of my parents now. And they kind of, my dad will swear in front of me now that I'm an adult sometimes. Yeah, there wasn't a lot of swearing growing up and so interestingly also, Cody grew up in a family that didn't swear and used to get upset if I would swear in front of his parents.
[00:03:25] So I like tried to tamper that down to be like respectful. But over the years, I feel they've kind of become desensitized to it. I still don't like drop a bunch of F bombs when I'm hanging out with them or anything like that. But even saying pissed was like a big deal.
[00:03:39] Alyssa: Um Oh, oh, for sure. In my household.
[00:03:41] Rachel: Right? So like now if I say that in front of 'em, I feel like it's not that big of a deal. Um, and then I've done things totally differently with my kids than what I grew up with. But I
[00:03:51] Alyssa: think I was just thinking about like, 'cause I was thinking as we were coming into this episode, how. Obviously there are so many thoughts and feelings around swearing and all that jazz.
[00:04:01] I think so much of it comes back to like, what's the culture we were raised in? Mm-hmm. And so then what are those parts of us that pop up and they're like, no, that's disrespectful. You're not supposed to do X, Y, and Z. When we know there's no actual rule about swearing that exist somewhere in some parenting handbook.
[00:04:18] It's really just what is our perspective? What's our cultural perspective? What's our social programming around this? And I feel like it's so vital that we start there. Otherwise we end up in the minutia of like shoulds or shouldn't.
[00:04:32] Mm-hmm.
[00:04:33] And I don't really care what people do in their household or teach their kids around this
[00:04:39] Rachel: same, I was thinking about that before we came on of just like, this is so individual.
[00:04:44] Um, and I think what's most important for kids to know. Outside of the home is that as a culture, swearing or curse words can make a lot of people feel really uncomfortable. And so my kids are allowed to swear at home if they want to, although because they're allowed to, they really don't. Um, but they know that it makes people super uncomfortable.
[00:05:09] Uh, they also know that they could be punished for it at school.
[00:05:12] Alyssa: Like this is what I think is really key. Actually, Becky on our team wrote an incredible social story, which is for folks who are new to social stories, it's something that you read to kids and with kids as like a story, like a regular book that you might read, like a kid's book, and it's called Our Words Have Power.
[00:05:34] We can share the link. Folks can access this for free. Um, you can download it, print it, share it with your kids, use it in your household. We'll attach it to this episode, but in it, she dives into that, that like, that our words are powerful and she calls them a risky words where risky words can sometimes leave people feeling hurt or sad or embarrassed or disconnected.
[00:06:01] And that you don't always know how a person will feel when they hear a risky word, which is why we often try to avoid them in situations. She goes into how like there might be certain rules at home that are different than the rules at school, and that words aren't good or bad, but they are impactful.
[00:06:17] Rachel: Mm-hmm.
[00:06:18] Alyssa: And that there are words that you can use to describe things clearly without causing any harm.
[00:06:23] Rachel: Hmm.
[00:06:24] Alyssa: And it's a social story that you can use with your kids in that she opens it up where you get to talk to your kids about, like if you're feeling angry, you could say, or if you're feeling silly, you could say, you know, it's something that I think is a really good.
[00:06:41] Overview for kids about language in general and that yeah, words aren't inherently good or bad and they're powerful, and other people are going to receive them in different ways. Mm-hmm. Whether you intend it or you feel that way about that word or not, and that you then get to make a choice about what impact do you wanna have on other humans around you, how do you want them to perceive what you're trying to say?
[00:07:11] If you want your impact to match your intention, words matter.
[00:07:16] Rachel: Yeah. And also I think like it can be a good skill for children to learn to like read the room, right? Mm-hmm.
[00:07:23] Alyssa: Like
[00:07:24] Rachel: my kids, I drop the F mom at home regularly and my kids know that. Like at church, I would never drop the F1 because it would be so shocking for so many members of our church that they would completely lose whatever I was trying to convey.
[00:07:39] Because they would be so focused on the fact that I had cursed, right? Yeah. So it's those types of skills for my kids to know. And then also just like I've let them know like, Hey, you're not gonna get in trouble like with Mimi and Grampy if they hear you swear. But it will make them feel uncomfortable to hear that word come out of the kid's mouth.
[00:07:57] So if you wanna use that word, you can use it here with dad and I. And otherwise don't. Um, and then don't, otherwise don't we also have, well, and
[00:08:05] Alyssa: it's just like, yeah, you get to choose if you want them to be uncomfortable or not. Yeah. That's your choice. And like,
[00:08:09] Rachel: I don't want you to choose that. So let's talk about also why we care about how those words can make somebody feel.
[00:08:19] Alyssa: Yes. And that's a part of the like empathy, compassion piece. I think this gets tied up sometimes in the like, well, they're not responsible for somebody else's feelings. Everyone's responsible for their own thing. And if I come up to you and I just say a lot of things that are really hurtful on purpose that I know would hit you at spaces that are like core wounds, I'm not responsible for your regulation and you might choose not to be in relationship with me anymore.
[00:08:48] Mm-hmm. You might see me as like. That's not a kind person that I wanna be around. And so there are consequences to our actions. There are consequences to our words in the way that we show up. And if you're fine with, nobody wants to hang out with me because I'm not kind, and I go up and say whatever I want or whatever I'm thinking or whatever I'm feeling without considering the impact, you get to make that choice.
[00:09:15] Rachel: Mm-hmm. Totally. Yeah. I think part of it too for me is like when I am. Explaining to my kids that these words can make other people feel uncomfortable. It's usually like when I'm pre-teaching, when we're going to somebody else's house.
[00:09:30] Alyssa: Mm-hmm.
[00:09:30] Rachel: I kind of have this rule for my kids that when we're at Mimi and grantee's or Auntie and Uncle Joel's like, we're gonna follow their house rules, even if they're different than our house rules out of respect for them.
[00:09:42] And so it's kind of my expectation that my kids know like. Mimi and py aren't down for curse words in their like kitchen and living room, so we're not gonna do that, myself included. Yeah. If I can keep it under control,
[00:09:58] Alyssa: reign it in, uh, it is like a, it is. You know, we, when we look at emotional intelligence, one of the components of it is social awareness and the social skills piece.
[00:10:08] And this is a part of social skills, that it is the reading of the room and getting to choose. How you wanna show up in this space. It is not appropriate for every human on the planet to see your unhinged, unfiltered, dysregulated self. That's not an appropriate social skill. Correct. It is not appropriate for me to show up to a stranger and start sobbing about the day that I have.
[00:10:36] Mm-hmm. That's meant to be reserved for your close people, your safe, trusted humans, and. I feel like there's been a shift. I, I think a lot of us grew up in, in a culture or in spaces where we didn't have a safe, trusted human. We didn't have a place to turn. Now it's a pendulum swing. Correct. And now it's like, well, here I am.
[00:10:56] This is my authentic self. Right. Coming in hot and it's like. That's an inappropriate thing to share with this human you just met or whatever. And the like, word authenticity kind of makes me throw up in my mouth because it, I think, can often lack that social skills piece, that it would not be appropriate for me to get in an argument with Zach about something personal and take to the internet and share with our 300,000 plus followers about.
[00:11:23] Him and his personal stuff, that wouldn't be appropriate.
[00:11:27] Rachel: Also, I think like those can, those are two separate things. 'cause I think about like the way I show up at work, right? I'm authentic in my professional sense, I'm being authentic.
[00:11:36] Alyssa: Yeah.
[00:11:37] Rachel: That doesn't mean that I'm sharing things that are not appropriate for a work environment.
[00:11:42] Alyssa: A hundred percent. And like it is my authentic self in some moments has to be like. Tampered. Mm-hmm. Because it's not appropriate for me to share that with the internet or share that with the person, the cashier. As I checking out of a grocery store, it's more appropriate for me to turn and share this vulnerable thing with my best friend or my husband or my therapist.
[00:12:07] Mm-hmm. Right? Mm-hmm. There are appropriate spaces to share things and. Inappropriate spaces to share things, and that's how I kind of categorize like swearing or these risky words that there are appropriate spaces to say them. Even with like pee poop farts, which is happening in our house a lot. Yep. I just said to Sji, I was like.
[00:12:27] At home. You can say those. That's fine. I was like, sometimes we might laugh and think it's funny and sometimes we might not. So if you're saying them to connect with somebody at home and they're not connecting with you, you don't feel connected, you could try And I gave them some other ways to try and connect.
[00:12:43] Rachel: Yep.
[00:12:44] Alyssa: IE when I'm not laughing, 'cause I don't think your far joke is funny. Um, here's another way to connect with me, but he, and I told him, I was like, I don't know the rule at school. But you might say those words at school and somebody might say that we're not supposed to say those at school or that those are potty words or private words, whatever.
[00:13:03] Mm-hmm. And I just said, there are different rules and different spaces for what you're allowed to say or do. And then now he'll sometimes ask, we'll be like, we, we were going into a store recently and he was like. Is this an appropriate place to say pee poop and fart? And I was like, not really. Actually, no.
[00:13:22] If you're just saying it to me, fine. But if you're like saying it to other people or to the person when we're checking out, that's not appropriate. And that's
[00:13:29] Rachel: a life skill right there. Yes, exactly. I exactly. I remember because this is tricky with like toddlers, for me it's kind of easy now because Abel's almost six and Nora is 10.
[00:13:39] So if I pre-teach and I'm like, Hey, this is how we're gonna behave. For the most part, they're like, okay, great.
[00:13:45] Mm-hmm.
[00:13:45] I remember when Abel was two or three, he would not stop saying the F word in the coffee shop and loudly okay. And very clearly enunciated, like nobody was gonna mistake what he was saying.
[00:14:00] And so I was trying to get him to stop, but I was embarrassed laughing. Which was making him think like, this is good, mom's having a great time. Like, let's keep going. So, you know, it does get tricky at that age. And, and I had obviously been like, Abel, don't say that. But then like, nervous, laughing as people are observing me.
[00:14:17] So me, Noni, and Abel left the coffee shop and. Not like as a punishment, but just like we can't stay while other people are trying to have conversation and coffee and you're yelling the F word. Um,
[00:14:29] Alyssa: as a consequence.
[00:14:30] Rachel: Yeah. Like we're not welcome in that space if one of us is yelling the F word. Um, and that's just what I said.
[00:14:36] It was like, we can't go to play space. 'cause there's like a, there were like toys. So this was like a place we would go. They could like play. They're like, we can't go to a play space and shout the F word. That's not a choice.
[00:14:49] Alyssa: Frankly, no one can. Like if a 58-year-old man came in and and said, screaming the upward, they would be correct.
[00:14:56] Rachel: Right. So I just didn't wanna wait until we were asked to leave and I just wanted to preempt that and 'cause this. I'm like, I was a regular at this coffee shop at this point. Totally. So anyway, but that one time. Which is largely due to Abel's personality. That was it. He didn't say the F word again in the coffee shop.
[00:15:15] 'cause he knew like, if I drop the F bomb, we're piecing and I like it here.
[00:15:19] Alyssa: Yeah.
[00:15:20] Rachel: So he started to realize like, okay, these are the boundaries for,
[00:15:23] Alyssa: because there was a consequence,
[00:15:26] Rachel: right? Not a punishment.
[00:15:27] Alyssa: That's correct. But that's why he realized it. Mm-hmm. Right. Yeah. Like and I'm thinking of like, then as kids get older, you know, and say they are swearing and they're like, I don't give a shit.
[00:15:38] What you said, blah, blah, blah. I think that two things come up. One, when they're swearing at you, and even if you're at home,
[00:15:48] Rachel: that's a hard now here
[00:15:50] Alyssa: and there's trigger, it's triggering, right? Mm-hmm. Right. The like. It's also so personally in our household, respect is important to me, and respect doesn't mean compliance for us, but we talk a lot about how we speak to each other.
[00:16:06] Rachel: Mm-hmm.
[00:16:07] Alyssa: And I actually recently said to Sage, you know what, buddy? I made a mistake though, over the last couple months and when you've been having a really hard time, I have been letting you speak to me in a way that wasn't kind and that's not how we navigate things in our family. I'm not allowed to speak unkindly to you when I'm having a hard time.
[00:16:29] Daddy's not allowed to speak unkindly to any of us when he is having a hard time, and I don't want Mila to speak unkindly to us when she's having a hard time. So I told him, when you're having a hard time, if you're not being kind, here's what you can expect from me.
[00:16:44] Rachel: Mm-hmm.
[00:16:44] Alyssa: I'm going to say, I don't wanna be spoken to like that, and I'll stay in the same room.
[00:16:51] I won't like abandon him, but I'm not going to respond. Mm-hmm. Until we can be kind to each other.
[00:16:56] Rachel: Mm-hmm.
[00:16:58] Alyssa: Zach actually modeled this for me in one of our very first fights. We were like 22, 23. We ever remember this. Remember this? Yep. And I had not experienced this in relationship. Mm-hmm. And in fact, my relationship before Zach was volatile and so unhealthy and there was a lot of screaming and yelling, whatever.
[00:17:14] And then you'd, we'd be over. Right? Like you'd yell and yell and yell and then the argument would be done. And that's not how Zach operates in the world. He, uh. Just got off a train. We were living in New York and he just got off to stop early. Yeah. Just wasn't
[00:17:34] Rachel: gonna be a part of it.
[00:17:36] Alyssa: Yeah. Mm-hmm. And I was like, how this works.
[00:17:40] And he texted me and just said, I am not gonna be in a yelling match with you when you're ready to talk to me instead of yelling. I'll be at home.
[00:17:51] Rachel: Yeah.
[00:17:52] Alyssa: And we were living together at the time and I was like, what? And there was a part of me that was like, I'm never going home now. Right. Like pissed, which is what Sage is now.
[00:18:00] I'm more mad
[00:18:01] Rachel: at you. So, yeah.
[00:18:02] Alyssa: Yeah. Sage will be like, I'm never seeing you for the rest of my life. Mm-hmm. And like that's fine. Go ahead and, but you don't get to say something. I'm also not engaging with that.
[00:18:13] Rachel: Absolutely.
[00:18:14] Alyssa: So this is, and I think that happens then as they get older. Right? And they're swearing at you.
[00:18:18] Yeah.
[00:18:18] Rachel: So this is a distinction. I allow my kids to swear if they want to, but none of us swear at each other. So like, as an example, if they, if Abel was to like. Be building a Lego and a piece not work, and he was frustrated. I wouldn't care if he was like, oh shit, which he doesn't, 'cause it's like it's not a forbidden fruit, so he just doesn't, but if he did, I'd be fine.
[00:18:42] But if Nora was mad at me and swore at me out of frustration, that is a hard boundary for us. In the same way that when she speaks rudely to me without swearing, it's a hard boundary for me and I'm not gonna engage.
[00:18:57] Alyssa: Um, yeah, I see it the same as like hitting, kicking, biting, spitting. I won't let you do that.
[00:19:03] I'm not going to engage in a conversation when you're doing that. It's not our family culture. Well, that's, it is like, it's a trickle down. I will treat you with respect, correct. And pause conversation sometimes to listen to you or like throughout life in the day to day. Treat you with respect and kindness.
[00:19:25] And that's my expectation from you. Mm-hmm. And I will just now just not engage. But when they get older and they're swearing at you, I'm curious what your response is in that moment. Like Nora says, like, I can't even think. Yeah. Be Nora.
[00:19:44] Rachel: Just be her for a second and let's see.
[00:19:47] Alyssa: Oh my God. Mom, you're so stupid.
[00:19:49] Ugh. Stop it. Cut the shit, mom. Mm-hmm.
[00:19:53] Rachel: Yep. Which she said the first half of that without cut the shit many times. Yeah. I
[00:19:58] Alyssa: really embraced, yeah. Her, um, annoyed.
[00:20:01] Rachel: Yeah.
[00:20:01] Alyssa: Self.
[00:20:02] Rachel: Yeah. So I would just be like, Hey, no, I like, can hear how annoyed you are right now. I'm not gonna have this conversation or try to solve this with you until you can speak kindly.
[00:20:11] And then it'll usually be like, I'll be in my room folding laundry or she's like, oh, stop. No, you're so stupid. And then I'd be, I hate you, you're the worst. Mm-hmm. Then I'd walk away. I. And go in my room. And if she came in my room, I would say, if you're ready to speak kindly, I'm happy to chat. Otherwise, I'm gonna close the door and if you try to come in again to swear at me or be rude, I'm going to lock it.
[00:20:34] Alyssa: Mm-hmm.
[00:20:34] Great.
[00:20:35] Rachel: And then she'd probably pound on my door for a little bit and then once the rage cloud passed, then we reconnect and, and chat it through.
[00:20:44] Alyssa: Perfect. She and I are so similar. I need to like rate, we even see this right now with Mila where. Sage doesn't do this. She just needs to yell and get it out and express it and feel heard, and she's such a like validation human.
[00:21:05] She wants you to connect with her about her experience and validate it, and she needs to express it. Sie and Zach both like go inward. And they need time. They wanna like build with Legos or do art. Like when Zach's parents told. Him that they were getting a divorce. He sat, he listened, and then he left and drew pictures.
[00:21:28] Mm-hmm. And like that's how I could draw pictures for a million years. Gotta talk
[00:21:32] Rachel: about it.
[00:21:33] Alyssa: I gotta talk about it. Last night after like, or there's some new work juices flowing after this conference I went to last night, I sat for two hours after the kids went down and just talked to Zach. 'cause I had to like mm-hmm.
[00:21:45] Talk it through and download everything. Yeah. And process it. And I think it's important to note that like. That's how some of us are. And in the same way that Zach's gonna just get off the train and walk away, I need to get things out. And so what I've had to find are appropriate ways to get them out and appropriate spaces to get them out.
[00:22:09] Mm-hmm. And when I need to like swear or like get like be rude and like have like word vomit something. I will do it to a safe person instead of to the person. Mm-hmm. And then when I talk to the person, it's already come out in some form and now I can usually access more regulations. Yeah. Noni, Noni does
[00:22:31] Rachel: this.
[00:22:32] You are she? Yes. Yeah, because if she's mad at me, she'll be like, can I call dad? Yes. And vice versa. And I'm like, mm-hmm. Yeah, you can absolutely call your dad. Um, he's not gonna move the boundary, but he can listen to how mad you are.
[00:22:46] Alyssa: Yeah, and that's it. That's all I want in that moment. Okay. This is a silly one, but it was absolutely gorgeous here.
[00:22:54] I was on a work trip in California and I was like checking the weather. I'm like, oh my gosh. It's sixties and sunny and beautiful outside and whatever. It's finally outside time because it's like mid-March and we just had snow on the ground a week before. You have an
[00:23:12] Rachel: amazing backyard.
[00:23:13] Alyssa: Amazing backyard.
[00:23:15] We rent this house that we're in and it used to be a childcare, like a family childcare program. So this is whatever, just like incredible space. And I'm in California and I see pictures. We have like a shared photo album that Zach had uploaded of the kids into the album, and they are. I'm like, where are they?
[00:23:34] And I'm like, wait, are they at the science museum? Which is all inside? Yeah. Wrong move. And I was just like, what is he doing? Meanwhile, Kylie, who's with me, her kids having her first ice cream cone like outside. And I was like, what is he doing? And so I word vomit all this to Kylie of like, what in the, it's sixties, what is he doing, blah, blah.
[00:23:58] In a way that's very rude. And then when the kids. Called me like we were FaceTiming, I was as regulated as I could be. I was like, oh, where are you guys coming from? 'cause they're in the car as he, as they just FaceTiming. And he was like, we were at Echo. I was like, oh, the science museum. I was like, is it, is it chilly out there?
[00:24:20] And he was like, no. And I was like, oh, is it, is it raining? And he was like, no. And Zach like, chimes in. He is like, no, I think it's supposed to rain this afternoon.
[00:24:29] Rachel: Hmm.
[00:24:30] Alyssa: And I was like, oh, is it? Really empty and like dead at echo. And they were like, no, there's a bunch of people there. And I was like, oh, interesting.
[00:24:37] I thought they'd maybe be outside. And that was as, that was a way more regulated version for sure than the unhinged thing that came before it. And if I'd had even more time to like process and. Word vomit before that it could have been even more regulated.
[00:24:57] Rachel: Mm-hmm.
[00:24:58] Alyssa: And ultimately, I knew I'm on a work trip out of town and he's parenting.
[00:25:02] I don't get to micromanage Yeah. This, but I want to. Mm-hmm. And I still want a word vomit about it, and I need to get it out somewhere. And when we're looking at. The me of the world, the Mila of the world, the Nonie of the world, we need a space to like unhinged express. Mm-hmm. Just word vomit it. And when they don't have that, it comes out at you.
[00:25:28] Rachel: Yeah, it does. Or the other thing that Nora will do is like, suppress, suppress, suppress. And then just be living. Mm-hmm. Explode. Yeah. Just be living on the edge of a breakdown, which also is not how I want her to. Move through the world
[00:25:43] Alyssa: a hundred percent. And then what happens? 'cause I can speak for Nora a little bit here because I lived, um, is it then something so small happened and I'm like, well, you, yes.
[00:25:56] And I can tell you all the ways that you're a terrible human because I didn't express any of that and just like shoved it down. And this is where I think when it comes to the, like swearing at you or the being rude. Toward you in the household. I think it's helpful outside these moments to say, Hey, it is, it makes total sense when you're mad.
[00:26:22] You need to talk about it and share about it and say all these things. It's not appropriate to say these types of things to me or use these words. If you need to say all of that. Here are some people you can talk to before you talk to the person you're actually mad at.
[00:26:39] Rachel: Mm-hmm.
[00:26:40] Alyssa: You can call auntie, you can call dad you like, here are spaces you can express that before you come to the person you're mad at.
[00:26:47] 'cause what you're teaching her is like this is going to transfer then at some point to friends. Mm-hmm. To a workplace, to a partner down the road. And it's okay to need to word vomit this. It's not okay to do it at the person that you're mad at when you are not. I haven't downloaded all that to somebody else yet, when you can't access enough regulation and self-control.
[00:27:08] Mm-hmm.
[00:27:09] Rachel: Absolutely. And I think the other thing that can be helpful if you're like, like let's say that one of your kids is allowed to swear at home. They're not supposed to swear elsewhere, but they do, right?
[00:27:23] Alyssa: Mm-hmm. So
[00:27:24] Rachel: one thing that I have communicated is like, hey, if you choose to use a word in a space that it's not allowed.
[00:27:31] I'm not gonna try to like save you from the consequence, or I love that, prevent the consequence. Like you are going to have to follow the rules of that space and if not, you will have to deal with the consequence.
[00:27:43] Alyssa: I love that so much. It's accountability and that is how they will learn. I think often we wanna woo right in and save them.
[00:27:53] Mm-hmm. Because we can. Right. Actually, Julie Cole, co-founder of Mabel's Labels was a moderator at a panel discussion at the conference I was just at, and she said she's got six kids. And she was like, my kids know I'm not gonna step in and save them. Mm-hmm. They can talk to me about it later, I'll help them like they can chat about it.
[00:28:14] If they choose not to study for a test and they don't do well on it, great. They're getting the grade they get and it's gonna affect their grades. If they forget something, their notebook at home that they were supposed to bring in and turn in, they navigate those consequences. I'm not driving to school and dropping it off.
[00:28:33] Mm-hmm. And she just like gave all these examples and. I think we're like, oh, but we could help them. It's okay to forget things. Or they need a system, we need to help them create a system. Sure. Maybe outside that moment, but they also get to navigate the natural and imposed consequences totally. Of their actions.
[00:28:52] And that is how we learn.
[00:28:55] Rachel: I and I find it helpful. Like I, at home, if she forgets home stuff, I'm like, whatever. I really don't care. But it's helpful for her to be learning and able to, 'cause now he's school age and he has expectations that he meets at school to have those things that do hold them accountable.
[00:29:13] 'cause yes, it is okay to be forgetful, as I've shown you at home 10,000 times. And also in public spaces sometimes you are held accountable in different ways.
[00:29:22] Alyssa: Well, and when I go to work, if I show up and I don't have the things I need, nobody's coming to save me. Correct. It's a life skills thing. It's actually chatting.
[00:29:32] I would love to have a podcast episode about this, but I was chatting with somebody who works in like, uh. College like student life support and was sharing how there's been a shift from students tapping into the student life support to parents calling on behalf of their children. Hmm. And the lack of skills that a lot of the college students have in even just like self-advocacy or self-awareness because somebody's been stepping in to save them over and over.
[00:30:09] I think that, yeah, if your kid, if you've given the pre-teaching support of, here's what you can expect if you swear at school or in this space and they choose to do it. They get to navigate those consequences. It's so hard. Which might be, it's so hard. Well, it's like it might be they get in trouble. Yeah.
[00:30:28] Right. It might be that they're punished at school for it. It might be that their grandparent says something to them that's uncomfortable for everyone to be in, to sit in. Mm-hmm.
[00:30:39] Rachel: It is so hard the wanting to swoop in and date them. So last night actually at bedtime, Abel's like, mom, I'm not sure if I'm going to school tomorrow.
[00:30:48] And I'm like, I'm like, oh, tell, well, I'm sure. So tell me more. I'm like, oh, okay, well tell me, tell me more. Why are you feeling like that? And he is like, well, I had to sit at Miss Jenny's desk today. And I'm like, oh, what happened? He's like, I had to sit there for 10 minutes. I'm like, okay, what was going on before you had to sit there?
[00:31:12] And he goes, we were doing work. And I'm like, were you having a hard time being quiet during work time? Were you wanting to chat with the people that sit at your table? And he was like, yeah, I didn't realize that it was time to be quiet yet. And I was still chatting. And then Ms. Jenny had me sit with her for 10 minutes and I was like, oh, so now you're feeling nervous about going back to school in case that might happen again?
[00:31:34] And he was like, yeah. And I was like, totally, that makes sense. I said, if you, you could talk to Ms. Jenny and say, Ms. Jenny, can you give me reminders when it's time to be quiet so I can make sure that I'm quiet when I'm supposed to be? And he was like, okay, yeah, I can try that. Okay, great.
[00:31:53] Alyssa: Done. And he might not try it.
[00:31:55] Right. And he might go back to make you nervous to ask and he might. Yes, totally. It's okay. At some point he's going to learn through the consequences of his action, or he won't. And he'll just be like, yeah, this is worth it for me.
[00:32:09] Rachel: Absolutely. And that may be what happens for him. And also I. I feel really lucky 'cause his teacher's one of my friends, so I trust that she's not being like Shay or like mean, she's just like, all right Abel, if you can't stop chatting, you can come hang out with me.
[00:32:26] Alyssa: Totally. You know? Yeah. And so I feel
[00:32:27] Rachel: okay about like, yeah, you can navigate that at school and it makes sense to feel nervous. 'cause it's embarrassing to have like that focus on you. Yeah. Um, so here are some options for. Not having that happen again or choosing to talk again and hanging out with your teacher?
[00:32:44] Alyssa: Um, a hundred percent. I love it. Yeah. I think a lot of the, like swearing and, and I, I'm sure for my parents who like, don't swear it was rule we couldn't swear. Yeah. I have to go back to your
[00:32:55] Rachel: mom saying that she's never even thought the word. Like what, what's her goal with that statement? Like, what's her fear if she did think the F word?
[00:33:03] Alyssa: Oh, it would be the wor like. It's the worst word that you could ever say. But what could happen
[00:33:09] Rachel: if she thinks the F word?
[00:33:12] Alyssa: I think in her mind that then she's not a good person. Ah,
[00:33:16] Rachel: it says something about her character.
[00:33:18] Alyssa: Correct.
[00:33:19] Rachel: Got it.
[00:33:19] Alyssa: Um, so Lord knows what she thinks about my character. I'm a terrible
[00:33:22] Rachel: person though.
[00:33:23] Like one of the worst.
[00:33:25] Alyssa: Also you've been at my birth, like, oh yeah. It is unhinged. Uh, just full screaming. There's a lot of F-bombs and mm-hmm. She navigates it very well. Yeah, she does. She just lets it happen. But I'm like, oh, when I think about it outside the moment, it's gotta be so uncomfortable for her.
[00:33:45] But I think about like, when my, I have four brothers. When we're together, there's swearing that happens among us and my parents at this point. When we were younger, it just was a hard no. They would've been like, you don't need to say that. Come up with another word.
[00:33:59] Rachel: Mm-hmm.
[00:34:00] Alyssa: And now that we're all adults, they just let it happen.
[00:34:04] And they have observed that we're not gonna go into the workplace. Mm. And use that terminology. Right. I think for them. The way that they knew how to make sure we had the social skills piece of it was to just say, you can't say that at all. Like, it's so bad you can't say it at all. Which then for us was like, well, if it's so bad, I wouldn't say it at work.
[00:34:25] I wouldn't say it at school. Right? Mm-hmm. And I think that was their goal with it, which makes total sense. Well, they wanted you to be
[00:34:32] Rachel: successful in all
[00:34:34] Alyssa: kinds of different spaces. Exactly. And now that they've seen like, yeah, we have the social skills to differentiate where it's appropriate and where it isn't appropriate.
[00:34:42] At least most of us then we, they were like, all right, yeah, at this point, go to town, you're adults. Mm-hmm. Uh, but it wasn't until they saw that we were going to be successful in relationships or in these other spaces that they were able to. Then allow it in the household and it's still not their favorite.
[00:35:02] Rachel: Mm-hmm.
[00:35:03] Alyssa: But I believe their end goal was our like success. Yeah. I think for my parents too. Especially socially, et cetera. Yeah. And so once they had kind of like proof of that. It softened the at home piece.
[00:35:15] Rachel: Yeah. I also think, you know, it's hard, you can feel pressure about like not wanting, I never want my kids to be like influencing their peers in a way that will be Sure.
[00:35:25] Perceived as a bad thing negative. So I have also said to them like, Hey, some families don't allow swearing at all. And some of your friends may have words that you know that they've not heard yet. And I don't want them to hear them from you.
[00:35:41] Alyssa: Mm-hmm.
[00:35:41] Rachel: And which is the same thing I say after I talk to my kids about sex.
[00:35:45] Alyssa: Yeah.
[00:35:46] Rachel: This is something that your friend should learn from their parent and not hear from you.
[00:35:51] Alyssa: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Unless they don't hear it from their parent ever. And then they're a teenager, and then Kate Dental has to teach them all about their body parts. Totally. Like they're then go right ahead. Thanks Kate.
[00:36:01] Rachel: Absolutely. But like, you know, for Nora who's 10 and is my oldest, I'm still at at a point where I'm like, please don't talk to your friends about sex because I don't know what they know.
[00:36:11] Alyssa: Totally. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Um, speaking of which, vulva is being's newest word, I'll send you a video. Love it.
[00:36:19] Rachel: Love it.
[00:36:19] Nora used to call it a bba.
[00:36:22] Alyssa: Sure, sure. And
[00:36:23] Rachel: Abel used to call his scrotum, his fum.
[00:36:28] Alyssa: And penis. Or penis is what she said. She penis. She
[00:36:31] Rachel: still says penis. Like
[00:36:34] Alyssa: It's so funny.
[00:36:37] Rachel: So good.
[00:36:38] Alyssa: Oh man. Yeah, no, I like that note of like it's for them to have the social awareness and the mindfulness of their friends and what terminology they should or should not be teaching their friends.
[00:36:51] Rachel: Right. And like my kids go to a strict. Conservative private school. So it would, it could potentially be a big deal if one of her peers was influenced by
[00:37:05] Alyssa: Yeah.
[00:37:06] Rachel: You know, um, yeah. Yeah. And she knows that, and she also is pulled it together so much at school that she just wouldn't able. Yeah. There will be continued conversations with Abel as he gets older.
[00:37:17] I have no doubt. Um,
[00:37:18] Alyssa: sure.
[00:37:19] Rachel: He pushes the limit much more than she does.
[00:37:21] Alyssa: I think they have that skillset and that social awareness, because you've also talked to them about the power of those words. Sometimes there's this inclination of like, words are just words. We're not gonna let them have any power or meaning.
[00:37:35] And so folks swing so far to the other side that they don't talk about how words affect people and have impact and whatever. And so then kids don't have that social awareness to even know, like, what words can I say or can't I say in different spaces? Or what words would it be appropriate to say or not appropriate to say in different spaces or different people?
[00:37:57] And I think you've found a nice balance there of using the words and helping them understand which words hold, what impact Yeah. Uh, and what spaces they can use them. Cheers Rach slide.
[00:38:13] Rachel: Wait until Abel's older.
[00:38:16] Alyssa: Sure. We'll revisit this in five years. Yeah, I love it. I'm excited to hear people's like questions and curiosities and comments.
[00:38:25] We'll do a post over on Instagram at seed and so e head on over and let us know what you're curious about and, uh, what's. Coming up for you with this conversation, what fears you have around sparing or just annoyances or triggers. Let's dive into them together. Head on over to the gram and we'll continue the conversation there.
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